157 réponses à ce sujet

[JediNg]

Elite Midget wrote...

JediNg wrote...

I don't read the comics, but if he did found Cerberus - which I doubt - I would tell Ashley just to ****** her off.  Hate her I hate aliens mentality in ME2 (and ME).

Know what I hate?

Idealistic fools that take "We should be wary of Aliens because they kinda attacked us unwarranted in the past" as "I HATE ALIENS EVEN THOUGH THEY INVADED US BEFORE! NOW LETS HAVE A BIG ORGY WITH OUR FORMER INVADERS!"


I find your kind far more annoying than even those that want all the Dead Squaddies back(And I've made it a point in many threads that I laugh at their faulty logic of fanboyism) and that's just sad. You should be ashamed of yourself. It's people like you that make me want to make a Full Renegade Shepard and sing songs of Human Domination. At least I know that those of said mindset aren't close minded and are open with what they want. That and they argue with logic instead of blind hatred/fanboyism. Gawd!

Sorry, I needed to vent. I really detest the unwarranted hate that Ashley gets. Even the PS3 Magazine guys have unwarranted hate against Ashley despite the PS3 not having ME1.

Okay.  Still haven't changed my mind.

[Tasha vas Nar Rayya]

Sooooo, after that rant, let's get back on topic...

I have read Evolution #1. I can't get hold of #2, but I think that General Williams finding Cerberus would be a brilliant twist. Also, the timeframe is bang on correct, Cerberus would have been founded soon after the wars with the turians logically.

However, one snag I have (and it is a very minor one that may/may not effect it) with this theory is that General Williams was the first human to surrender to aliens. In my opinion, Cerberus has the 'anything to further humanity' mentality. I think that an act of surrender may either motivate General Williams to find Cerberus, or may show that he was 'the first human to surrender to aliens.' Meaning that with this action, he did not further Cerberus' aims.

[Zulu_DFA]

Tasha vas Nar Rayya wrote...

Sooooo, after that rant, let's get back on topic...
I have read Evolution #1. I can't get hold of #2, but I think that General Williams finding Cerberus would be a brilliant twist. Also, the timeframe is bang on correct, Cerberus would have been founded soon after the wars with the turians logically.
However, one snag I have (and it is a very minor one that may/may not effect it) with this theory is that General Williams was the first human to surrender to aliens. In my opinion, Cerberus has the 'anything to further humanity' mentality. I think that an act of surrender may either motivate General Williams to find Cerberus, or may show that he was 'the first human to surrender to aliens.' Meaning that with this action, he did not further Cerberus' aims.

As you may have learnt from the preview, the issue #2 takes place already after the armistice. But Gen. Williams is not arrested, and is willing to resign on his own. That's what this "RETCON" outcry is about. This, and Saren's brother is not dead yet, so everything is still possible in the #3 & #4.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 20 février 2011 - 09:41 .

[kidbd15]

I don't get all this RETCON stuff... in our world a bunch of stuff that is known to the public about our militaries and government are false... they don't tell us what really happened behind the scenes. Maybe everything we heard before is just a cover, and we are now seeing what really happened all those years ago during the First Contact War.



The only thing that really bugs me about the comic is how Eva knew of the Terminus Systems. I can play along with TIM learning all the knowledge via his Reaper encounter, but Eva knowing just out of the blue is odd. The only way I can explain it is a considerable amount of time passed by while TIM was in a coma and after... and in my mind, that's what happened.

[Destroy Raiden_]

With all of Ash's distaste for the group I'd die laughing if that ended up to be true she and her sisters would be heiresses to Cerberus!

[Elite Midget]

JediNg wrote...


Okay.  Still haven't changed my mind.

I didn't come here to change your mind. Like I said, you're a close minded fanboy that instantly decided to falsely label Ashley as a racist even though, if you had even bothered to talk to her, you would know that she isn't. Hell, Renegade Shepard can be far more racist than any of the Squaddies and that's a longshot. Especially considering that Tali(All Geth are Evil and must be DESTROYED AND EXPERIMENTED ON!!!) ande Mordin(Krogan Scientist? Hah! Genophage and mountains of dead baby Krogan? Too bad! All needed! No other way! They must deal with a constantly flow of dead babies!) are the most racist Squaddies to ever join Shepard.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 21 février 2011 - 01:33 .

[Sylvianus]

@ Elite Midget

Personally I think those players who claim that Ashley is racist, know very well that it isn't. They don't want to admit they have not explored or when they simply do not like it.

Being new, it's been several weeks since I look at those who say that Ashley is racist, and never any arguments, just a stupid statement. Anything that can substantiate their claims. Different people but exactly the same reaction unconstructive.

They take just a sentence, as if it could reflect the character (in this case Wrex, Grunt, Tali, Garrus, even Shepard, are racists)

All those who defend Ashley bother to explain why she is not with things, strong examples in the game, is noted soon as new that has played or not.

I am convinced that people are simply repeating the same thing because they want to, it's just irrational. In my opinion, it can do nothing for them. Except may be encouraged to play, before speaking.

Speaking of things that we know and not say what is not known.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 21 février 2011 - 01:45 .

[Xilizhra]

Ashley is somewhat speciesist. It doesn't make her evil, militant, hateful, or anything else like that. It's a minor and reasonable character flaw.

[Elite Midget]

It's because she's human. Had Ashley been an Asari or a Quarian fans would be gushing for her and ignoring when said character says something 'mean'. Though I personally don't see how making sure that your race is independent and not fully under the whims of the Council is a racist remark.



Look how badly the 'lesser' races, as the Council puts it, are treated. They have no real say and their embassies are basically just throwing a bone that can change nothing political-wise. Which is why humans wanted a seat and not just a powerless embassy.

[Sylvianus]

Ashley is somewhat speciesist. It doesn't make her evil, militant, hateful, or anything else like that. It's a minor and reasonable character flaw.

It is a description that I like. ^^

Ashley has his faults, like the others, and happily. Perfect characters, without prejudice, without convictions, flawless, super beautiful, that you approve all the time, in the trash.

A moderate and realistic advice that I'd love to see more from those who do not like Ashley. But I am under no illusions. The radical views, exaggerated, and without any arguments will never change my point of view.

I love her forever.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 21 février 2011 - 02:02 .

[Elite Midget]

There's also the thing that Ashley did what she had to do. Such as shooting Wrex when he was about to kill Shepard if someohow someones Shepard failed that much at that point of the game. Really, they even gave you a loyalty quest if you just talked to him on the Normandy after every story mission before Virmire.



Needless to say. Many fans, that didn't both talking to Wrex, took that to heart. They blamed Ashley for saviing their Shepard instead of blaming themselves for getting into that situation that Ashley had to intervene,



Than right after Ashley volunteers to fight on the suicidal squad with a bunch of Salarians she've never met before.



Yeah, she's a real racist. /sarcasm

[Xilizhra]

I've seen a fair few people attack Tali for her attitudes towards the geth, as well as the entire quarian race. As for the asari... the only one we've ever seen be actively speciesist is Erinya, who's both explicitly in the wrong and admits this very quickly, so she never had much of a chance. I've also seen calling out of those asari who are prejudiced against purebloods.



Also, the only non-Council race member who complains about their standing is Din Korlack, and the elcor ambassador repeatedly says that he's overreacting. Din himself seems to hold speciesist tendencies as well, especially towards humans.



Finally, while not all of Ashley's dialogue was intended to make her look bad, a lot of it was hella clumsy (like "I can't tell the animals from the aliens"). Though in some of that, I'm willing to just chalk this up to her foot-in-mouth tendency.

[Elite Midget]

He's the only one we've seen complain. Though it's generally accepted by the Council Races that they're 'Surperior' to all other races and that only they may set policies. Lesser Races clearly lack the Superiorty to make decisions that effect trillions of lives.

It's only fair that Tali and Mordin get attacked. They have their reasons but it doesn't change what they are or how they act. The difference here is that Ashley doesn't want to negatively effect the Council she just wants Humanity to be strong enough to protect itself. Especially with her analogy of the Hunter(Council) sending their Dog(Humanity) against a Bear(Saren/Geth/Reapers).

Modifié par Elite Midget, 21 février 2011 - 02:10 .

[Xilizhra]

It's a matter of economic and military superiority, not inherent physiological superiority. "Lesser" in this context just means "less power."



Also, Tali didn't know about the geth having any non-murderous members until she met Legion, so I'll forgive her. As for Mordin, I never saw him as being any worse than Ashley, certainly. As for Ashley's attitudes... if her beliefs are just that, that's fine. However, humanity should do its part to aid the rest of the galaxy as well.

[Elite Midget]

Yes but there are other words that could have been used other than Lesser. Why use such a double edged word if they didn't intend for it to be taken both ways? Or at the very least didn't believe in their surperiorty?

Tali only forgives Legion if your Shepard forces her. If your Shepard doesn't force or her or you send Legion to Cerberus than Tali never changes her racist views.

Mordin is the biggest racist of all. So much so that he refuses to even see the truth untill Shepard forces him to face the cold hard facts. Not all Krogan are mindless killers, Krogan Scientist do exist, and that the Genophage murdered babies and left mountains of dead bodies in their wake. Before Mordin is fin believing that Krogan are just brutes and infinitly dumber than him and that the Genophage was the best and only course.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 21 février 2011 - 02:20 .

[Xilizhra]

Yes but there are other words that could have been used other than Lesser. Why use such a double edged word if they didn't intend for it to be taken both ways? Or at the very least didn't believe in their surperiorty?

The same reason Ashley said that line about being unable to tell the animals from the aliens; a programmer was clumsy.

Tali only forgives Legion if your Shepard forces her. If your Shepard doesn't force or her or you send Legion to Cerberus than Tali never changes her racist views.

Yes, because making a halfway decent argument counts as "forcing" now. Tali really didn't need much of a push to start making up with Legion.

Mordin is the biggest racist of all. So much so that he refuses to even see the truth untill Shepard forces him to face the cold hard facts. Not all Krogan are mindless killers, Krogan Scientist do exist, and that the Genophage murdered babies and left mountains of dead bodies in their wake. Before Mordin is fin believing that Krogan are just brutes and infinitly dumber than him and that the Genophage was the best and only course.

So how would you have ended the Krogan Rebellions?

[Elite Midget]

I admit that you're right there. Bad communication goes a long way. Especially when a lot of fans take first impressions as what defines someone. Which, if they had any RL experience, should know that First Impressions are just that. First Impressions. In the end they don't reflect what a person truely is in the end.

Sure she does... If you weren't Paragon she never forgives Legion since a Renegade just threatens her with force/possible death if they keep fighting on his/her ship.

The Krogan Rebellions happened many years ago and there has been a Genophage Revision for Krogan that weren't even alive for the Krogan Rebellions. Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and try new things instead of continueing to punish innocents for the crimes of their forefathers. Even than, their forefathers crimes can be attributed to the Salarians who weren't punished at all for not taking rfesponsibility with the Krogan.

If I had been in command there would not have been any Krogan Rebellions. The Council messed up over and over again and it lead to the Krogan Rebellions.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 21 février 2011 - 02:35 .

[Sylvianus]

Ashley is a woman direct, incisive and who does not mince words. She's a soldier. We must reflect on its words according to this. She says what she has in mind, with spontaneity.

And for me, no one is racist. It's a mistake to think like that.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 21 février 2011 - 02:33 .

[Xilizhra]

Sure she does... If you weren't Paragon she never forgives Legion since a Renegade just threatens her with force/possible death if they keep fighting on his/her ship.

Well, getting people to be friends has never been a Renegade strong suit.

If I had been in command there would not have been any Krogan Rebellions. The Council messed up over and over again and it lead to the Krogan Rebellions.

Ah, so you would never have uplifted the krogan at all? Good thinking; I had the same train of thought. Hindsight is, though, 20/20...

[Elite Midget]

I call it ignorance through bliss. It's easier to hate than to understand and Tali and Mordin naturally allowed hate and ignorance clouded them from the truth that they refused to see. Racials tendencies and past experience played a part in this as well.

Don't put words in my mouth. I would have uplifted the Krogan but I wouldn't have handled them like animals or throw planets at them without teaching them responsibility or understanding their culture.

After the Rachnii Wars the Council threw a few planets at the Krogan than ignored them. None bothered to Uplift them properly or even make them welcome in the Universe. Hell, for all the Krogan knew about the Galaxy at that point was that if there's a problem you fight because that's what the Council had them do when they had a problem. Than once the problem is sokved you get rewarded like a pet.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 21 février 2011 - 02:38 .

[Xilizhra]

There's no evidence that Mordin hated the krogan. He definitely saw them as a threat, and with a cultural tendency towards intellectual inferiority (which they really do have; of the three krogan scientists we've seen, two have been rogues and one has only worked on non-weapons-related-things because Wrex made him).

Don't put words in my mouth. I would have uplifted the Krogan but I wouldn't have handled them like animals or throw planets at them without teaching them responsibility or understanding their culture.

Who's to say the Council didn't try?

Modifié par Xilizhra, 21 février 2011 - 02:40 .

[Homebound]

In Exile wrote...

The hilarity of Ashley's distain for Ceberus would be enhanced many times if this were true.

[Inquisitor Recon]

While I am generally not a fan of the comic I like the idea that General Williams may have been involved in it's creation somehow. Seems likely enough.