16 réponses à ce sujet

[KurumiMorishita]

.. Cyphre's Dual-Wieldable Flails & Heavy Flails .. (shameless self-promotion )

[Eguintir Eligard]

I thought flails i n game just used the mace model cause they cant be animated...

[dunniteowl]

For the love of all that's holy (and weapony) can you please take a screenie under better light? I can almost see the weapons -- heck, I can almost see the person being attacked. I'm sure this looks cool, but show me with more light please. My eyes are not as sharp as they once were.

dno

[KurumiMorishita]

Updated the page with some new (Deathbringer) screenies :-) !!

[dunniteowl]

Thanks~!  That's TONNES better.  And that's an excellent screen shot in all respects.  You should consider cinematography in some fashion.

dunniteowl

[Dann-J]

Technically those are morningstars rather than flails. The description of the morningstar in the game actually mentions a chain (even if the model lacks it).

They look cool, whatever the hell you call them. Although shouldn't a Deathbringer have his eyes and mouth sewen shut?

Modifié par DannJ, 24 janvier 2011 - 02:33 .

[KurumiMorishita]

DannJ wrote...

Technically those are morningstars rather than flails. The description of the morningstar in the game actually mentions a chain (even if the model lacks it).

They look cool, whatever the hell you call them. Although shouldn't a Deathbringer have his eyes and mouth sewen shut?

Hmmm.. I don't think so and the historic fact is, that flails (and not morningstars) are indeed the ones with the chain.. but hey.. you are right.. in the end it's no matter how they are called  !! Hehe.. but yes.. I definitely agree with your comment about the Deathbringer.. he should have his eyes and mouth sewen shut.. but with some "fantasy" the gray orcs teeth and striped markings around the mouth come close to that look.. esp. on picture #8.. but the eyes are the real "problem".. well.. not exactly a problem as one simply could make a retex of course  !! - hmmm.. that actually could be a nice idea for a mini-mod  ..

Modifié par Cyphre69, 24 janvier 2011 - 06:50 .

[Eguintir Eligard]

Wikiapedia isnt the best source for legitimate claims.



A morningstar was a spiked ball on a chain, a flail was a long shaft of spikes on a chain. Did a project on it back in the day.

[KurumiMorishita]

Eguintir Eligard wrote...

Wikiapedia isnt the best source for legitimate claims.

A morningstar was a spiked ball on a chain, a flail was a long shaft of spikes on a chain. Did a project on it back in the day.

True - definitely not the primary source for everything.. but have you seen their references/sources about this topic? 
There's a difference to claim something without mentioning sources/references though.. !!
Anyway.. this doesn't need to extend into a history-lesson and hence I suggest the term "Morningstar Flail" .  

[Dann-J]

Given how woefully inaccurate the weapon models are in most RPG games, I suppose it doesn't really matter what they are called in the context of the game. Certainly no-one who designs models for these types of game seems to know what a warhammer actually looks like. And the so-called scimitars in NWN2 look more like Bronze Age sickle swords! Not to mention how pathetically small the maces are - these were among the most feared weapons on the battlefield amongst armoured combatants. NWN2 has turned them into little more than fancy cudgels.

However, as an archaeologist and collector of weaponry from throughout the ages, I can personally guarantee that any weapon that features a spiked ball (whether it has a chain or not) was refered to historically as a morningstar. As Eguintir Eligard pointed out, flails feature a longer head, as they are weapons inspired by the grain-threshing flail used by farmers.

Modifié par DannJ, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:36 .

[luna_hawke]

Cyphre69, my fail looks different than yours.

Am I missing something?



I don't have a spikey ball at the end of mine.

[Dann-J]

The download is suspiciously small (I don't have 7zip at work to check it). Is there just a modified 2DA in the 7zip file? If so, then it would seem that the morningstar (sorry, 'flail') model isn't included.

[KurumiMorishita]

luna_hawke wrote...

Cyphre69, my fail looks different than yours.
Am I missing something?

I don't have a spikey ball at the end of mine.

It`s just a "baseitems.2da" mod + some ".uti" files.. - no models.. hmmm.. do you have MotB/SoZ?

[dunniteowl]

Because I'm a bit geeky in this particular fashion:
Morningstar Images:
http://www.elfwood.c...morningstar.jpg
http://www.ritterrue...morningstar.jpg

Flail Images:
http://www.digitalap...tbox/Flail1.jpg
http://lacsknights.p...il_2605_122.jpg

Completely different.
(snicker)
A morningstar should be, basically, a mace with a spiked ball on the end and nothing more.  Flails will always have a ball (or multiples) with spikes attached by chain(s) to the shaft or haft of the weapon.

It's pretty much, though, you say poh tay tos, I say pah tah tohs.

dunniteowl

[M. Rieder]

I usually say taters.

[Dann-J]

Mmm... after a bit of research, it turns out that the name of this particular weapon is a bit contentious, even amongst military historians. It's neither a 'true' flail, nor a 'true' morningstar.

Here's a mediaeval woodcut of a flail in action:
http://upload.wikime...ende_Bauern.jpg

It was more like a polearm, with either a very short chain or a simple hinge joining it to the rod-like 'business end'. Militarised versions often had the rod reinforced with iron, or even studded in short spikes.
http://images-mediaw...11480769324.jpg

As you could imagine, wielding such a weapon would have required a whole different combat style to a one-handed chain weapon with a shorter handle, longer chain, and ball instead of rod. The two types of weapon are almost polar opposites as far as handling goes.

The best term I've found to describe it is Kettenmorgenstern - literally 'chain-morningstar' in German. That distinguishes it from the fixed morningstar ('Morgenstern' in German), and also from the 'true' flail, which was more like a giant nunchaku (the nunchaku itself possibly also derived from the agricultural flail).

So it seems we're all half-right (and half-wrong). It's a Kettenmorgenstern!

Modifié par DannJ, 27 janvier 2011 - 11:07 .

[KurumiMorishita]

Yes.. and that's why I suggested the term "Morningstar Flail" some days ago ;-) .. but I also think, that one shouldn't left out the D&D term (to know which feats to choose) - and the D&D term for a 'stick/rod/staff' with a chain (or chains) which have a ball or sth similar at the end are called: Flail (D&D 3.5 Players Handbook, Page 120.. Heavy Flail, Light Flail, Dire Flail).