55 réponses à ce sujet

[ussnorway]

T3hAnubis wrote...

ussnorway wrote...

'Forcefield' then whatever floats your boat... if still in doubt then work towards 'Storm of the Century'.

Hmm...if I go that route, might as well get Mana Clash, right?

I'm not a fan of 'Mana Clash' but other people sing it's praises a bit... I'd like to point out that if you already have 'Spell might' as well as the dwarf (templar) then you are well covered as far as anti-magic is concerned.

[DWSmiley]

szekeres2010 wrote...

I've played warriors so much that I've completely forgotten how much pain in the ass dwarves are! They keep resisting almost all my spells, it is so hard to kill them in the blood ring quest with primal spells. Surprisingly the bear form works well against them, if was fun to tear them apart with a rage enhanced overwhelm attack. Shapeshifter keeps getting better and better.

Yeah, you wouldn't think +10% spell resist would make a big dfference but those unoffical Provings are tough for a mage.  I can't help but suspect the elite dwarves are getting more than 10%.

[ussnorway]

The staff never missed in my games... I play on hard.

As for spell resistance on nightmare my experience is that putting up 'Spell Might' will solve that issue... you only need 'Spell Wisp' on hard.

[Ace Attorney]

Why do people dismiss using Shapeshifter with Arcane Warrior? I think a Nuke Mage might benefit from both. Just equip a Fatigue reducing Armor set and a high damage 2H weapon and start nuking, once you run out of juice, shapeshift to get big armor value and the damage from a big weapon.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 03 février 2011 - 03:54 .

[Ace Attorney]

I wasn't talking about using ton of subtainables as an Arcane Warrior, I meant using it to equip better gear and weapons.

[Ace Attorney]

szekeres2010 wrote...

If you don't plan to use the AW warrior as a tank, then the bear form can be deadly indeed with a good massive armor and a full sized weapon like the CGM, but you must invest some points to dexterity or strenght because you won't hit much, but it can work I suppose.

Imagine Cailan's set (yeah net 19% fatigue ... but all those bonuses:O).

Perhaps Dex, as it doubles as a stat to increase defense. I'm lvl 12 about to go 13, Magic 56. Go all out Dex now?

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 03 février 2011 - 04:49 .

[Ace Attorney]

In that case, how far in the Arcane Warrior Tree do I go?
See my spells in the link above, I have the Fireball/Cone combo set up. Should I go for some sustainable spells like Arcane Shield, Rock Armor, and Spell Shield thus be able to to go off-Tank with Arcane Warrior or Bear at my whim (perhaps Arcane Warrior first, the once mana runs dry, go Bear to recover it?)? Or as ussnorway suggested here, go for Storm of the Century and Forcefield? Or some other path?
Should I invest in Willpower? Ignore my high willpower bonuses, it is partly from my Mage gear, which I'll loose by going Arcane Warrior. 

I have 4 Arcane Tomes unused at the moment, plus there is the one from the Desire Demon.

EDIT- Wow, we have almost the same gear on our mages, hehe.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 03 février 2011 - 05:55 .

[Ace Attorney]

Wouldn't the last 3 be mostly useful for Arcane Warrior focused mages, and in doing so, defeating my purpose of using Shapeshifter? I guess the Shield is useful to burn mana (like other spells don't do that already, hehe) so I can go Bear/Spider to regenerate Mana.

As I said, I am thinking that getting Arcane Shield (and maybe the Arcane Mastery Tree), Mana Shield, and/or perhaps Rock Armor (and maybe the Earth Primal tree, my Wynne has Earthquake already, but 2 never hurt I guess).

-EDIT1- Another interesting armor might be Wade's Superior Dragonscale Armor Set with Evon the Great's Mail. It is less armor than Cailan's Armor set, but less than 4% Fatigue.
Wade's Superior Dragonscale Armor Set with Evon the Great's Mail Stats:

Armor: 21.26
Fatigue: 23.405%
Stats: +1/+2 health regeneration in combat
+6 armor
+10% chance to dodge attacks
+2/+4 stamina regeneration in combat
+10 defense against missiles
+20% fire resistance
Set: -20% fatigue
Set: +5 defense

That is not counting a helmet. So armor ends up a tad higher.

Compare to Cailan's Armor set Stats:

Armor: 32.51
Fatigue: 39.00%
Stats: +4 armor
+10 mental resistance
+15% critical/backstab damage
+15 physical resistance
20% chance to dodge attacks
Set: -25% fatigue
Set: +5 health regeneration in combat

-EDIT2- Still thinking if this is a viable path. Sure, using Cailan's Armor or other Sets would make a Bear a tough nut to crack and a Spider still very tough, perhaps just as tough or close to a Dex rogue, but it feels like "whoring" out the Arcane Warrior out of it's thing. With my current Mage gear + The Spellward, I have a flat 30% Dodge, not counting Dex/Def when I shapeshift. That is tough in a different sense...

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 03 février 2011 - 08:07 .

[TBastian]

Sorry for the late reply, busy winter.

1. If I where to take both a SS/SH PC and Morrigan, would you develop Morrigan's SS skills further or not?

Not immediately. I'd personally get Force Field and Heal first.

2. What spells should I give her, given a PC SS Mage?

After Heal and Force Field have her focus on Cold spells and possibly the Sleep line. I expect all spell tomes are going to your PC, so getting the Cold/Sleep line allows her to complement your PC's role without having to go through a phase wherein she's only partly useful (which will happen if you have her aim for more powerful nukes).
Arcane Armor helps if she's constantly taking aggro.

3. How would you setup her Tactics (as I imply you wouldn't recommend her to go SS via tactics, only when I command it, got her Overwhelm in, and Shiftout)?

The usual. Have her spam Winter's Grasp on the mob with the least HP, Heal on wounded allies, use Drain Life when need be, keep Cold Weapons on when she's unshifted, use Group Heal when your guys need it... You should have more than enough spells to squeeze into her AI, unless you gave her Combat Expertise.

4. Apart of a Tank (Alistar, Shale, etc.), who would you pick as your fourth member? I think the obvious pick might be Leliana, as she adds lockpicking and Song of Courage, but I think you loose song buffs when Shifting, right?

Leliana, definitely. Your mages lose their own sustaineds when shifting, but other sustaineds can still affect them.

5. What are your thoughts on investing a tiny bit of points (5 or 6 in Origins, 9 or 10 in Awakening I think) to use Light Armor?
I imagine armor like Wade's Superior Drakeskin Armor Set (for Dragon fights), Battledress of the Provocateur

There is mention of such a build in the Shapeshifter FAQ (link in original post). With the right runes going light armor can even improve your nukes better than going cloth. I have not tried this personally, cloth has always worked well enough for me (cloth with +defense is dirt cheap and available everywhere, and +dodge cloth is easy enough to spot). As far as theory goes though I'd agree that an SS nuker mage in light armor could be very powerful.

All points should be in Magic, a few in Cunning for maxed Persuasion is optional. If you buy an Arcane Technique tome from Bodahn twice (once when you first meet him, a second one after that) and buy the ones from the Circle Tower and Denerim Marketplace you have a total 4 extra tomes. A fifth one can be obtained from the Desire Demon in Redcliffe.
You should have a total of 35 spells by 25, counting Arcane Bolt.

Shapeshifters don't do well when left to the mercy of the game's AI. The AI simply fails when it comes to AoE's or shifting. Then again pretty much every mage spec is wasted when left to the AI, with sole exception of support-mages. This is a technical shortcoming.

The problem with

@szekeres2010
Yep, that's my exact same experience playing with the spec. The forms are incredibly useful as long as you don't try to be anything else but a mage. Glad you're enjoying it.

All the shifter skills ignore spell resistance, so Poison Spit/Swarm Form does very well against magic resistant mobs. Dwarves especially, after Overwhelm.

Marjolaine is a rogue, iirc, and they get Evasion. Evasion trumps auto-hit, although you might wanna check if your forms are automatically switching to a melee weapon/staff when you leave them alone. If so you're dealing with the weapon-switch bug, a bug so obscure it yet remains.

Modifié par TBastian, 04 février 2011 - 06:19 .

[Ace Attorney]

Well, thanks TBastian. Care to look at the last few replies (from here onward)? A concept started by me of using SS with AW has started to be discussed and would like your input as well. While it may seem they overlap, I think there is a hidden opportunity to interweave both specs so one benefits from the other. A mage with a fatige reducing armor set, like the two mentioned above, can go Cone blasting in melee with no fear and once out of juice go Shapeshifting.
This is my mage at the moment, I have the SS line fully developed, and I have 4 unused Tomes.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 03 février 2011 - 08:52 .

[ussnorway]

Going AW would allow you to wear armour in awakening e.g. Venture (3X Paragon Stout runes + 42 CON) = 54 total CON, but be aware that having a non-staff weapon will slow down your casting speed.
As for spells; I'd work on the glyph set.

Modifié par ussnorway, 03 février 2011 - 11:07 .

[Ace Attorney]

I am very inclined to try the SS/AW build (I may keep a save from my state now just in case I wanna do something else I can go back and not start over).
But I have AW locked (I have Champ/Reaver locked too :[ ) and am almost lvl 13 and about to go to the Ortan Thaig looking for Branka (aka Oghren just joined). This means I need to go do the Elves quest, and I will probably reach 14 beforehand. I know I can take the spec later, but the benefits of getting it early and start trying to test it is appealing.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 03 février 2011 - 11:21 .

[ussnorway]

So make a hard save and go unlock AW from the elves then reload your save and play through the deep roads with AW... once unlocked it stays unlocked!

[Ace Attorney]

How fast is it to get it? An hour? Two hours? (I played DA:O back on release and forgot how the quest goes, hehehe)

-EDIT- Why the Glyphs? It may be my inexperience / noobiness but they seem unsurprising.Why are they good and how far the line should I go?
Like you said, getting the 3 spells I need for Storm of the Century (already have 2 spells in the Lighting line, 3 in Frost) seems more attractive. I also have mind blast, not force field, guess that too is higher priority.

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 03 février 2011 - 11:41 .

[ussnorway]

An hour. kill the old oak to get past the mist then fight your way to the room... ignore all the side quest areas for now.

Modifié par ussnorway, 03 février 2011 - 11:38 .

[Ace Attorney]

You replied fast:wub:, so I will quote the edit, hehe.

T3hAnubis wrote...
-EDIT- Why the Glyphs? It may be my inexperience / noobiness but they seem unsurprising.Why are they good and how far the line should I go?
Like you said, getting the 3 spells I need for Storm of the Century (already have 2 spells in the Lighting line, 3 in Frost) seems more attractive. I also have mind blast, not force field, guess that too is higher priority.

[ussnorway]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Why do people dismiss using Shapeshifter with Arcane Warrior?

I think Most people think Shapeshifter = the STR build and not your magic build so AW would therefore be redundant.
Edit; The glyphs give you a powerful CC ability that will bye the time you need in order to cast your slow nukes... yes 'Forcefield' is more important.

Modifié par ussnorway, 03 février 2011 - 11:50 .

[Ace Attorney]

 Interesting, didn't know of it. Hmm...so Forcefield, AW Talents, 3 spells in glyphs, and if I can, Storm of the Century (5 more spells). In that order or Glyphs last? That is 13 spells, exactly what I get at level 25. Add my 4 Tomes, the Desire demon tome, and Arl's free talent, and I still have 6 to pick, or rather, get it all by level 19 using Tomes.

[ussnorway]

If it were me; I’d take ‘Forcefield’ first then…You only need ‘Combat Magic’ to use the armour so that’s next. Now I’d take ‘Blizzard’ and ‘Tempest’ because that’s your four tomes spent.

You can then work towards the glyphs (all four) and finish with ‘Spell Might’ because ‘Storm of the Century’ is very powerful in the late game and your high magic score would reap the benefits of having ‘Spell Might’ as a constant buff. By that stage you should have a good idea of what areas you want to improve on or any faults that need to be covered.