480 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Nerevar-as wrote...

TwistedComplex wrote...

What in the hell makes you think if TW2 somehow outsells DA2, then Bioware will relate it DRM

Will they think "They outsold us because they made a better game"

Or

"They outsold us cause of DRM"

Do i REALLY have to answer this for you?

You forgot "they outsold us because they had better marketing".
If it sells better they are probably going to compare. I hope they´ll go beyond the Metacritic or whatever score.

But beyond the Metacritic score to what, exactly?

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see Bioware folks blaming a hypothetical TW2 success on bad DRM. It's psychologically appealing to blame failures on something you don't have any control over.

[In Exile]

I have never understood the dislike for the disk check.

[ChaobSiroc]

Majere wrote...

I am slowly replacing PC games with versions for PS3, Not only do I not have to worry about DRM  I don't have to worry about system requirements, PC gaming is a thing of the past for many reasons unless your into MMO's.

Graphics suck on consoles though. On a PS3 the highest res you can play any popular game at is 720p. Most people have 1080p HDTV's yet the consoles only push out half as many pixels, Mass Effect on PS3 lacks AA as well as Vsync and the FPS cap is a mere 30. I'll take PC over console any day thank you. I only have a PS3 for exclusive titles. 

[DivineBeetle]

ChaobSiroc wrote...

Majere wrote...

I am slowly replacing PC games with versions for PS3, Not only do I not have to worry about DRM  I don't have to worry about system requirements, PC gaming is a thing of the past for many reasons unless your into MMO's.

Graphics suck on consoles though. On a PS3 the highest res you can play any popular game at is 720p. Most people have 1080p HDTV's yet the consoles only push out half as many pixels, Mass Effect on PS3 lacks AA as well as Vsync and the FPS cap is a mere 30. I'll take PC over console any day thank you. I only have a PS3 for exclusive titles. 

Not forgetting mods

[Fishy]

TwistedComplex wrote...

TMZuk wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Steam is an invasion of privacy? *Puts on tin foil hat* Seriously, if you really value privacy you'll never use the Internet.

...if a software producer, be it EA or someone else, insists that before I can use the software I have already bought and paid, I have to download and install thirdp-part software that connects me to a network that I am not intererested in, a piece of software that starts automatically each time I start my computer, a piece of software that spams me with messages I am not intersted in receiving; then it is an intrusion on my privacy, yes!

And there are many things I do not do via the internet, indeed. And there's a reason I have a firewall and what have we. And that reason is NOT that I want to have something like Steam or Games for Windows installed, opening a hole in my firewal, through which my computer is accessible.

Keep on the tin foil hat, it suits you.

Then you're gonna have a hard time adapting to the future

As people become more and more computer savy, piracy will keep growing, and companies will keep taking measures to protect their investment

Hmmmf .. Good thing we can live without entertainement.

[moilami]

In Exile wrote...

I have never understood the dislike for the disk check.

I don't want to swap some freaking disks like I had to do in '80 with Amiga. I don't want to go 20 years back in time regarding computer games unless I want to do some retro gaming, and still, no disk swapping thanks.

[Raygereio]

In Exile wrote...
I have never understood the dislike for the disk check.

I used to be pretty okay with disc checks myself. That is until they came up with fun stuff such as:

-disc checking DRM that checks the ENTIRE disc before giving the okay, which with even modern day drives will translate to you waiting a bloody long time.
-disc checks that checks multiple seperate areas of the disc, or that intermittently checks the disc again while playing; resulting a dramaticaly shortened lifespan for both the disc and the drive.
-disc checking DRM that conflicts with drivers and firmware, breaking the functionality of the disc drive. Or in some cases resulting in actual physical damage to the drive.
-disc checking DRM that conflicts with windows, for instance breaking the functionality of explorer.exe.
-disc checking DRM that nests itself in such a way on your computer that it generates backdoors for malware.
-disc checking DRM that will refuse to clear your perfectly fine, legal disc for no other reason then the fact that it's a buggy piece of doodoo.

I could go on for a while, but these days; I'm not that okay with simple disc checks anymore.

Modifié par Raygereio, 23 janvier 2011 - 09:14 .

[AlexMBrennan]

Personally I think that the industry should consult a security engineer, realise that DRM is never going to work and figure out a different way of dealing with piracy. All bets are off as long as the user is able to run the games on an arbitrarily modified operating system. More about Trusted Computing and why it's a rather bad idea.



I suspect that this is the reason the PS3 DRM is less intrusive; if the box only runs the official PS3 OS, and only runs signed binaries then a single online registration during the installation should work. I further suspect that this is the reason the PS3 no longer supports alternative OS installation

[freddfx]

I'm not a fan of hard activation limits in DRM... at all, in fact i prefer the steam approach, at least in DA:O for Steam i can play it anywhere i have my steam account set up... but more importantly i don't have to worry about using up a "machine license slot" when reinstalling windows or just simply upgrading to a difference machine. And while install limits might seem harmless in the beginning, you feel it possibly years later, several hard drive and windows versions... laptop installs later.. when you hit your limit and then have to call EA to have the limit bumped (they'll bump by another 5)



Now i agree with the fact that the ME1 version of this machine install limit DRM sucked because it was inconsistent with the DLC



Despite the fact the EA deauthorization tool came well after the release of Mass Effect1... it did NOT (and still does not) adjust the number of installs for the DLC (both Bring Down the Sky and Pinnacle Station) so even using the deauth tool you'll have to call EA to bump the limit on the DLC as well



My biggest issue with DRM isn't the fact that it's used... i mean, what can i say, whatever makes EA sleep better at night, it's just that it's so often poorly implemented to where its a huge inconvenience for PAYING CUSTOMERS... paying... not people who got it via BT with the DRM already stripped. Its almost as if you're rewarded for not buying the game...

[Connect]

Wyndham711 wrote...

I think this is a better solution than a disc check. I won't have to keep the disc in the drive and a single authentication (at the end of the installation process I presume) seems to be be enough. Sounds good.

This just goes to show how poorly informed you are (and possibly the majority of the disc check haters). YOU CAN PLAY MASS EFFECT 2 AND DRAGON AGE ORIGINS WITHOUT THE DAMN DISC if you just register your key in EA Download Manager. They should have made the SAME thing with Dragon Age II.

It is possible to play a disc check game without the disc (whrough EA Download Manager), but it's impossible the other way around (for example to use DA II's disc as a means to verify the legitimity of your copy).

[Loc'n'lol]

Connect wrote...
YOU CAN PLAY MASS EFFECT 2 AND DRAGON AGE ORIGINS WITHOUT THE DAMN DISC if you just register your key in EA Download Manager.

Well, I did just that (didn't know about it... they didn't quite advertise it) and it asks me for a disk anyway.

[Poaches]

People still believe DRM is about deterring piracy? Along with that silly notion piracy only exists on the PC platform.



DRM may not stop people from stealing the game, but it will stop people who by the game from selling it back or returning it to the store after they are done with it. It will stop you from lending it to friends and relatives, or installing multiple copies in the same house so every one could play it.



I like to think of it as a stop-loss program for crappy games.

[AlanC9]

Majere wrote...


you still need to have client running and you can't access any online features or install any games until you go back online.

I have to go online to access online features? I'm shocked.

[TMZuk]

Majere wrote...

I am slowly replacing PC games with versions for PS3, Not only do I not have to worry about DRM  I don't have to worry about system requirements, PC gaming is a thing of the past for many reasons unless your into MMO's.

You have heard about modding, yes??

[Sylvius the Mad]

These online checks can be irritating - ME2 took forever to launch if I was tying up my bandwidth with something else, as it wouldn't give me a menu until it had connected to the Cerberus Network.  I would have loved to be able to turn that off so I could just play the game without having to wait for it.

If DA2 only checks once, then that not a big problem (it is a significant problem for some people, though, so we shoudln't get accept it without comment).  But if it needs to connect to something to submit gameplay data just because it thinks it can, that will be annoying.

The Grey Nayr wrote...

If you buy the console version you don't have to worry about that stuff.

More
accurately, with the console version its pointless to worry about that
stuff because all of the console games rely on the same crippling DRM
that any PC user would object to immediately.

Imagine if a PC required a specific and unalterable hardware configuration in order to pass online authentication checks.

Nerevar-as wrote...

At least Steam has offline mode.

Which you can only turn on after you've patched the game.

[freddfx]

Poaches wrote...

People still believe DRM is about deterring piracy? Along with that silly notion piracy only exists on the PC platform.

DRM may not stop people from stealing the game, but it will stop people who by the game from selling it back or returning it to the store after they are done with it. It will stop you from lending it to friends and relatives, or installing multiple copies in the same house so every one could play it.

I like to think of it as a stop-loss program for crappy games.

I guess i'd have to agree, DRM really only manages to stop "casual piracy"... a term i hate because really... letting your friend play a game? selling it back after you're done? i mean... really? We've been doing this with physical things (furniture, clothes, CD's even) since the the first man traded a bison elbow for some hide... and the point of DRM is to attempt to put real world constraints on "things" that physically don't exist... like a program, in this case a game. 

Basically all paying customers are potential pirates (ARRRRR)... and are treated as such, because people who download it for free don't have these limitations. 

[TMZuk]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

These online checks can be irritating - ME2 took forever to launch if I was tying up my bandwidth with something else, as it wouldn't give me a menu until it had connected to the Cerberus Network.  I would have loved to be able to turn that off so I could just play the game without having to wait for it.

It is possible to turn off the Cerberus network. I did... can't remember how right now, as I haven't plyed ME2 the past seven months or so, but I can find out if you are interested.

[Azazel005]

In Exile wrote...

I have never understood the dislike for the disk check.

I have a lot of CDs, I also have a low attention span. I hate fidlding around changing discs here and there it's an annoyance. I personally prefer some sort of simple online authentication. What I HATE is all the register for this account then enter this key and color in this box stand on one leg install steam, install games for windows live install google help bar download the super box autheticanter and then go to the official website and crack the internal installing puzzle.

I know DRM is a necessity, but frankly it's exhuasting.

[msp]

In Exile wrote...I have never understood the dislike for the disk check.

I travel for business. Disk checks mean that disks have to come with me. Dragging around a binder full of play disks just so I can game a little here and there is a pain. Same goes for finding a stable internet connection. "Complimentary high-speed internet" in hotelspeak can mean anything from connection in every room to Win98 box in the lobby to wireless that works only if you jump up and down on one foot with laptop pointing north.

This is why I so stubbornly cling to Steam, btw. It has a lot of negatives, but at least all my entire game library is available on multiple computers and I don't need active internet connection to play most of it.

The only thing I saw so far that made me really uncomfortable with DA2 DRM is the monitoring software that seems to be coming along for a ride. Harmless or not, I really don't like junk on my system, especially when it shows up unannounced. I had to do a major clean up after Gothic 4 demo (!) stealth-installed Securom. So much for that potential sale. I'll have to check what ends up in the final DA2 Steam edition.

[DJBare]

Majere wrote...

I am slowly replacing PC games with versions for PS3, Not only do I not have to worry about DRM  I don't have to worry about system requirements, PC gaming is a thing of the past for many reasons unless your into MMO's.

I agree, pc system requirements are a pain in the ass, something I will gladly put up with to obtain performance, quality AND freedom(mods).

I am not against consoles, each to their own if you don't mind the limitations that come with them.

Modifié par DJBare, 24 janvier 2011 - 03:30 .

[Cigne]

Connect wrote...

Wyndham711 wrote...

I think this is a better solution than a disc check. I won't have to keep the disc in the drive and a single authentication (at the end of the installation process I presume) seems to be be enough. Sounds good.

This just goes to show how poorly informed you are (and possibly the majority of the disc check haters). YOU CAN PLAY MASS EFFECT 2 AND DRAGON AGE ORIGINS WITHOUT THE DAMN DISC if you just register your key in EA Download Manager. They should have made the SAME thing with Dragon Age II.

It is possible to play a disc check game without the disc (whrough EA Download Manager), but it's impossible the other way around (for example to use DA II's disc as a means to verify the legitimity of your copy).

Tried that; DA just shows as playing but doesn't launch, and ME2 still asks for the disc.

Poor information can be found anywhere.