480 réponses à ce sujet

[Kourd]

I prefer the ME:1 / Dead Space 1 DRM they had over disc checks. I still don't understand the outrage over it. You didn't have to keep a CD copy in the drive, I *loved* that. As it stands, I have ISO versions of all my 'CD check' games (which I purchased, yes) just so I can put the real CD's away and not worry about them getting scratched.

[freddfx]

Drayth wrote...

I prefer the ME:1 / Dead Space 1 DRM they had over disc checks. I still don't understand the outrage over it. You didn't have to keep a CD copy in the drive, I *loved* that. As it stands, I have ISO versions of all my 'CD check' games (which I purchased, yes) just so I can put the real CD's away and not worry about them getting scratched.

Can't imagine "loving" one DRM scheme over another... sure there are some forms of it that are more tolerable than others but... the best version of ME1 was the free one with no DRM at all... yea that had no cd check... or install limits

[Durang]

I don't quite see what's wrong with the check in at all. If you always needed to be connected to the internet to play the game then maybe I can see the problem people have with it but it seems harmless enough.



Of course I have never played a PC game that has ever required DRM and I don't quite understand how it works.

[Stinkface27]

I haven't read all 15 pages of this thread, but I'm just putting my vote in for NO to online sign ins. I don't mind having to register my game online and have the CD in, but where I live, our internet connection is atrocious at best and non-existent at worst. I shouldn't have to remain signed in to the internet to play a single player game I have already registered.

[Altima Darkspells]

If you only need online authentication once, how would EA know if you're playing on five computers in a twenty-four hour period?

[Connect]

Drayth wrote...

I prefer the ME:1 / Dead Space 1 DRM they had over disc checks. I still don't understand the outrage over it. You didn't have to keep a CD copy in the drive, I *loved* that. As it stands, I have ISO versions of all my 'CD check' games (which I purchased, yes) just so I can put the real CD's away and not worry about them getting scratched.

Modifié par Connect, 24 janvier 2011 - 05:47 .

[msp]

Altima Darkspells wrote...If you only need online authentication once, how would EA know if you're playing on five computers in a twenty-four hour period?

At first I interpreted this restriction to mean that the game can only be installed and authorized on no more than 5 computers in a 24-hour period. Reading the EULA again just now, I think I was wrong. The "launch and access" part of "while there is no limit on the total number of machines on which the Software can be Authenticated,you may launch and access the Software on no more than five (5) unique machines in any rolling 24-hour period" seems to indicate that the game cannot be played on more than 5 computers per day. For EA to know how many computers are being used in a 24-hour period per license, the game has to phone home every time it is launched and identify the computer/key combo. I can't think of any other way to handle this. I hope I'm missing something. I really do.

Edit: clarity

Modifié par msp, 24 janvier 2011 - 05:45 .

[Connect]

Drayth wrote...



I prefer the ME:1 / Dead Space 1 DRM they had over disc checks. I still don't understand the outrage over it. You didn't have to keep a CD copy in the drive, I *loved* that. As it stands, I have ISO versions of all my 'CD check' games (which I purchased, yes) just so I can put the real CD's away and not worry about them getting scratched.

Doesn't it worry you the SLIGHTEST that all your possessions are the slave of some servers that may or may not function properly and at all times? Without your software phoning home everytime you install it, you are left with a dozens of gb of wasted space that you can't use.



Let's not forget that upgrading or buying a new pc is often needed to play newer games. So who is going to guarantee that the servers will exist to authenticate your software? All you get are vague claims that they will remove the drm, but that's not legally enforceable, nor guaranteed. So far, 99 percent of the games still have the drm, even if they are very old.



Who do you think is going to care when you will not be able to activate and play your legally purchased game?

[AlanC9]

Why should anyone worry? If the servers go away, just DL a pirate copy. Or are you saying that DA2's DRM scheme really will be unbreakable?

[Connect]

Why should I resort to piracy when I have paid for a product? What is the point of purchasing the product if I would have to pirate it anyway? It doesn't make any sense.



And to make matters worse, EA blame BioWare for the drm and the other way around. No communication with us, no explanations, not even a peep. But all they care about is our money, not what we want in exchange.



How about I require EA to authenticate with me every time they make a transaction with my money?

[In Exile]

Connect wrote...

Why should I resort to piracy when I have paid for a product? What is the point of purchasing the product if I would have to pirate it anyway? It doesn't make any sense.

You shouldn't. But the contract between you and EA mandates that you use the product you have licensed a certain way. This includes being online to authenticate.

Connect wrote...
Doesn't it worry you the SLIGHTEST that all
your possessions are the slave of some servers that may or may not
function properly and at all times? Without your software phoning home
everytime you install it, you are left with a dozens of gb of wasted
space that you can't use.

Again, legally, it is not your software. It is EA software you are suing with their permission, under certain conditions.

I understand and appreciate your outrage, but you're framing the problem wrong. Unless courts deal with software IP differently than EA feels they would (which is why they've written the EULA as is) you don't own the software at all.

[Connect]

AlanC9 wrote...



If the servers go away, just DL a pirate copy.

This brings us a very interesting subject. Basically, if a customer is unable to play his or her game due to the online activation, that person might resort to piracy, which is a superior, fully offline version. So the very thing that is supposed to stop piracy is turning legitimate customers into pirates. Nice going, EA.

[In Exile]

Connect wrote...
This brings us a very interesting subject. Basically, if a customer is unable to play his or her game due to the online activation, that person might resort to piracy, which is a superior, fully offline version. So the very thing that is supposed to stop piracy is turning legitimate customers into pirates. Nice going, EA.

Technically, if you have already paid for your version, at least in terms of the $$, EA isn't affected if you pirate a replacement version because of DRM. Of course, you are still violating your license and their copyright.

[freddfx]

Connect wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

If the servers go away, just DL a pirate copy.

This brings us a very interesting subject. Basically, if a customer is unable to play his or her game due to the online activation, that person might resort to piracy, which is a superior, fully offline version. So the very thing that is supposed to stop piracy is turning legitimate customers into pirates. Nice going, EA.

thats basically what DRM is... punish paying customers while those who actually go out and download it for free are unaffected. It basically keeps legitimate customer from turning into "casual pirates" you know... those evil people that let their friend play on their computer. 

[ToJKa1]

In Exile wrote...

I have never understood the dislike for the disk check.

Just recently S.T.A.L.K.E.R. with it's wonderful SecuRom dischecker refused to to let me play with a perfectly legal and good condition disc that i had just installed the game from. Turned out it couldn't figure out that my computer had an external and internal DVD-drive, and i had to remove the external drive to make it work.

And i play many games at the same time, i want to be able to just double click the thumbnail on my desktop and get playing.

As for DA2 system, limited online authentications again? What was wrong with Origins' method? Not that this factors into me buying or not buying the game.

[AlexMBrennan]

As it stands, I have ISO versions of all my 'CD check' games

I thought these checks directly measure disc geometry (i.e. only an original, pressed copy will work). Besides, if that's probably illegal (at least if it's anything like the situation with DVDs)

Why should anyone worry? If the servers go away, just DL a pirate copy

That's also illegal.

[Connect]

In Exile wrote...

Unless courts deal with software IP differently than EA feels they would (which is why they've written the EULA as is) you don't own the software at all.

So you are fine with paying for something, be it a license or a product and not being able to use it? Or living with the fear that the servers might crash or go down the next time you want to play?



Doesn't it seem to you that the corporations have way too much power and very little responsabilities? When the doodoo hits the fan, it's always the consumer's fault. They have no obligations whatsoever, while we have to be slaves to 28 pages of restrictions.

[Connect]

ToJKa1 wrote...

In Exile wrote...



I have never understood the dislike for the disk check.

Just recently S.T.A.L.K.E.R. with it's wonderful SecuRom dischecker refused to to let me play with a perfectly legal and good condition disc that i had just installed the game from. Turned out it couldn't figure out that my computer had an external and internal DVD-drive, and i had to remove the external drive to make it work.

That's very different. With the disc check at least you were able to play, once you have removed the external drive.



But if the servers go down, there's no drive you can unplug if you want to play. It's game over FOR LIFE.

[DocDVD]

After reading through most of the thread it sounds to me that EA is pressing the defunct DRM scheme from the first DAs DLC (never once authorized correctly) onto the second game and make it even worse in the process. Way to go!



If I compare that with The Witcher 2, which you can get completely DRM-free directly from GOG I think I know where to take my money to.

[mcneil_1]

I think on the old Bioboards that Bioware did say back in 08 that if EA decided to drop the activation servers for ME1 they will have a patch ready, so hopefully they will keep their word.



After reading about it on the DS2 forum, this tages solidsheild see similar to the Cerberus Network and what ever the DAO one was called, I dont like it though (since they havent said if anything is going to be installed similar to the ME1 Securom),

[ToJKa1]

Connect wrote...

ToJKa1 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

I have never understood the dislike for the disk check.

Just recently S.T.A.L.K.E.R. with it's wonderful SecuRom dischecker refused to to let me play with a perfectly legal and good condition disc that i had just installed the game from. Turned out it couldn't figure out that my computer had an external and internal DVD-drive, and i had to remove the external drive to make it work.

That's very different. With the disc check at least you were able to play, once you have removed the external drive.

But if the servers go down, there's no drive you can unplug if you want to play. It's game over FOR LIFE.

Should that happen i'll have no moral problems looking for "third party solutions". Or is that a fourth party in this case?

[freddfx]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

As it stands, I have ISO versions of all my 'CD check' games

I thought these checks directly measure disc geometry (i.e. only an original, pressed copy will work). Besides, if that's probably illegal (at least if it's anything like the situation with DVDs)

Why should anyone worry? If the servers go away, just DL a pirate copy

That's also illegal.

even if there was something in the EULA about making an ISO of the disk contents that doesn't make it "illegal"...

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

I have never understood the dislike for the disk check.

The presence of a disc check encourages me to play one game exclusively until I am sick of it, and then switch for a while.

The disc of the game I am currently playing then lives in the drive.  But when I played ME, I could jump back and forth between that game and another from day to day because ME didn't require the disc.  That was nice.

BioWare was kind enough to remove NWN's disc check with a patch about 2 years after release.

And, because it bothers me, it's a "disc", not a "disk".  The only time we used disks was with mini-floppies (5.25" or smaller), as "disk" was short for "diskette".  CDs and DVDs are discs.

[mindbody]

My approach to DRM is very simple: If it actually does something to prevent piracy and isn't just a pain in my ****, then I'm for it. The more a developer isn't ripped off, the more profit, the more games, and the more development funding, in theory.



But most DRMs seem perfunctory to me. Why bother? What devs should ask themselves is, "is this DRM going to make us more profitable or protect our rights?" If not, they shoud just skip it. Does it really matter if I install the game on six computers instead of five?



What I don't like about any DRM is a requirement that I submit information, either directly or indirectly, about myself, my computer, or my gaming habits just to play a game which I already own the rights to use!