480 réponses à ce sujet

[mystupidmouth]

Lets just face the reality of the situation. Much more people have the internet who will be buying the game. Log-in Authentication is pretty much going to be the standard, because it eases the mind of software companies. They need to create the illusion that they have some sort of control over the situation. They are willing to gamble that they are not going to miss the small segment who don't have the internet, so they can feel they have some control.

[Raygereio]

ViSeirA
wrote...

Liquidation huh? you're talking about either Bioware or EA here, if EA were to go down sometime and their servers along with them I'm pretty sure Bioware is capable of releasing a no-activation patch, also online activation merely lasts a couple of years after game release when companies need their servers for activation from newer game releases, so the patch you're talking about it gonna get released no matter what.

Oh, really? First of all, companies can and will go down. It’s doesn’t matter if they’re solvent or not. I’m sure Black Isle, Looking Glass, MicroProse and Trilobyte also didn’t think they would go under, but it happened. 
Now we know the possibility of the servers being gone in – let’s say 10 years – is real, let’s look at if it will be actually possible for anyone to create such a patch. Sure, right now it would be trivially easy to recompile the executables without the DRM and put up on a server. But in 10 years?

Do you know what you were working on 10 years ago? I sure don’t. Do you think anyone will remember in ten years time where the sourcecode is? What development tools were used to compile said code? Where to get said tools? Are the old versions of the necessary libraries still around somewhere?
The odds are pretty decent that even if someone remembers how to makes the changes and by some miracle remembers how the development environment was set up, they’re employed elsewhere. So you’re left with a big pile of unfamiliar source code that some poor schmuck is going to have to sort through and figure out what the necessary changes are and how to compile it.
Oh, and they don’t just have to do it for DA2. They’re going to have to do this for every single game the company release that used that bloody activation mechanic. Each game naturally using different codebases and development environments.

Now let’s say there will be sufficient and adequate documentation. Then we run headfirst into another host of problems. Do you still have access to the documentation if the company goes out of business? Do you still have access to the necessary server space to put a patch? Generally these things do not happen with a lot of advance warning for the common workers. Do you think that the people higher up that do have the advance warning will care one bit about a game that stopped making money 10 years ago? No, they don’t. They’re not going to waste resources on QA on that, not on server space, etc.

Oh, but maybe some intrepid BioWare employee will perform a Garret’esque infiltration into the closed BioWare offices through the ventilation ducts and acquire all that he needs to create the patches at home and uploads them through torrents, fileplanet, etc. That poor guy is going to get a nice conversation or two with some lawyers as he’s messing with IP’s owned by either his boss or whoever bought out BioWare. Maybe they wanted to release a classics collection, then they don’t need anyone screwing things up. And that’s just assuming the company was bought out. If BioWare/EA goes out of business then the IP belongs their creditors and then there is no force known to mankind that can make such a patch see the light of day as all they care about is trying to recover the large sums of money owned.

And even if the company still exists by the time the server have to go down due to cost considerations. Again; do you honestly think anyone who has the power to make the decicisions cares about a game that stopped making money?

tl:dr version. There's a veritable cornucopia of reasons why it's doubtfull such a patch will be made. It would
require several miracles happening in rapid succession. But who knows, maybe if we all pray to our savior the great Flying Spaghettimonster it will happen, crazier things have occurred.

Now, maybe this point is moot for some people. Maybe you don’t play games more then a couple of times – or even once, and don’t look back. But I don’t. A lot of people don’t. A lot of people still play the good old games. Right now I can play Oni, Deus Ex or Baldur’s gate. I do not have the guarantee I can play the games that require activation, not without having to fall back on cracks that are not always perfect.

Modifié par Raygereio, 25 janvier 2011 - 11:09 .

[Connect]

It's a false sense of security that only does harm in the long run, causing people to turn away and ultimately affect the sales.

[snackrat]

I'm concerned with this game needing to be connected to the internet to play. Do I just need a connection with an initial boot, or does it ping every few minutes to check I'm still connected? My connection is spotty at best and often completely dies and needs to be reset.

Not helped by the fact I am in New Zealand, which still has very slow internet which reaches less than half (at most) of the population. Most NZers have access (specifically the OPTION to subscribe) to satellite connections but that is ridiculously expensive and therefore only an option for people many miles from a wire.

While I can understand corporate concern for piracy, over-zealous copy protection will make things worse. Legitimate users will run into barriar... after barriar... after barriar, while pirates find ways to circumvent them. I hate to do it - I WANT to show support for producers, after all - but there have been cases when I NEED to get CD cracks or what have you simply because my legit version doesn't work.

Then there are cases of certain products not being released to certain countries... weren't there several countries that couldn't get the Lair of the Shadowbroker DLC because of 'language issues', even though many of them had modded their game to play in English? I'm betting at least some of them probably sought out more 'legally ambigious" methods of obtaining that DLC.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 25 janvier 2011 - 12:22 .

[edeheusch]

ViSeirA wrote...

Okay honest question and honest answer, how many PCs you've played Origins on?
Liquidation huh? you're talking about either Bioware or EA here, if EA were to go down sometime and their servers along with them I'm pretty sure Bioware is capable of releasing a no-activation patch, also online activation merely lasts a couple of years after game release when companies need their servers for activation from newer game releases, so the patch you're talking about it gonna get released no matter what.

My problem I not that I want to be able to play on more than five computer at the same time. My problem is that the only way to check that the users don’t play on more than 5 computers is to request an online verification every time the game is launched which mean that I won’t be able to play when my computer won’t be able to authentify (either because my internet connection is down, EA authentication server is down, or because to many people are playing at the same time and EA authentication server bandwidth is not sufficient).      

About the no-activation patch, has the online activation of ME1 been removed by a patch? If the answer is no, then the fact contradict your claim as it was released more than a couple of year ago.
As I don’t have ME, I really don’t know but I have checked in the patch notes and did not find anything about online activation.

[Depresi0n]

I work away from home a lot, often stuck on a flaky GPRS connection on my laptop or with no signal at all, thanks for the warning I'm canceling my SE order just in case, why risk it. It's not piracy or consoles killing PC gaming its DRM and the problems it causes for regular owners.

[DragonRageGT]

AlanC9 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
/facepalms at the assumption that everyone has a constant internet connection or uses their gaming PC for the internet.

The connection doesn't have to be constant as far as we know. Dial up, authenticate, drop connection. NWN1 Premium mods worked just fine that way.

As for having an internet-free gaming PC, how many people do that? And, out of idle curiosity, why?

I can't remember how many times I've cursed NWN Premium modules (I bought the Plunder Pack) authentication system because I could not play them because I had some sort of problem with my connection when I wanted to. Specially because I only wanted to when I had some sort of connection problems that prevented me from playing NWN on the Online Permanent Worlds where I used to when my connection worked!

AlanC9 wrote...

Connect wrote...
Blaming pirates is childish. There have been pirates since forever, but corporations had more respect for the consumers back then.

I think that's a fantasy; corporations never had respect for the consumer.

Edit: at least, not the kind of respect that would cause them to not use the best available DRM technology.

Even the companies who don't use DRM say they don't use it because it's good business not to. It's not idealism.

CD Projekt RED's CEO speaks about DRM

“Being a player myself, I’m always surprised to see how many companies focus solely on preventing piracy instead of thinking about how they might encourage players to acquire original game copies. The assumption is that protection is the only way to prevent piracy, but a glance at any file-sharing site demonstrates that this is pure fiction. This assumption is also a good way to forget one of the keys to this business: taking good care of your customers"

- says Marcin Iwiński, CEO of CD Projekt and head of gog.com.

(There are more there)

Modifié par RageGT, 25 janvier 2011 - 01:37 .

[dzizass]

That's @!#!%$ great. DA1 DRM was a disaster, it took me 2 days before I finally could play the f#@$ game. If they are including it in DA2, I'm not buying it. Maybe, just maybe, I'll buy it (if it is much better than DA1, that is) and download a crack to be able to play it. Because I'm sure as hell not going to spend 2 days just to get something I've payed for running.

Also, I'd like to praise CDProjekt, which doesn't include any sort of DRM in their biggest title Witcher 2. Pay, download, install, play. That's what it should look like.
Oh, and since BioWare always creates a massive hype around their games, a crack will be available inside 3 days of release date. Actually, BioWare's policy promotes piracy, because installing a crack, is much less troublesome than going through the DRM procedure. So pirates don't really care about DRM, only honest clients are going to suffer because of it. Way to go BioWare.

Modifié par dzizass, 25 janvier 2011 - 02:22 .

[edeheusch]

dzizass wrote...

That's @!#!%$ great. DA1 DRM was a disaster, it took me 2 days before I finally could play the f#@$ game. If they are including it in DA2, I'm not buying it. Maybe, just maybe, I'll buy it (if it is much better than DA1, that is) and download a crack to be able to play it. Because I'm sure as hell not going to spend 2 days just to get something I've payed for running.

DAO didn't include DRM! It only require a CD check and I have never heard about anybody having problem with a simple CD check. 
If you speak about the system that was protecting the DLCs it is not a good new as a similar system should protect even the main game of DA2.

Modifié par edeheusch, 25 janvier 2011 - 02:54 .

[KendallX23]

DA 2 aparently needs an EA online pass like the last NFS and Medal of Honor...i don't know what the online pass is but i would rather like it to be it like ME2 or DAO

[Raygereio]

edeheusch wrote...
DAO didn't include DRM! It only require a CD check and I have never heard about anybody having problem with a simple CD check. 
If you speak about the system that was protecting the DLCs it is not a good new as a similar system should protect even the main game of DA2.

You need to check your definition of DRM. A disc check is a form of DRM. Just like the ET-phone-home system the DLC had was.
And lot's of people have problems with simple disc checks. Usually when those disc checks don't become so simple and innocent anymore.

That said, DA:O's disc check was fairly benign. Though the DLC authentification system was a mess. I'll admit that when it worked, it worked pretty okay. But when it decided to bug out on you it was one big pile of festering frustration.

Modifié par Raygereio, 25 janvier 2011 - 03:35 .

[In Exile]

Connect wrote...

So, what you are saying basically is "why fight for the freedom to use my purchase in a generally safe and unlimited way, when I can constantly worry about not being able to activate the game and be at the mercy of some obscure server?"

Err... you might stay up at night at the need to have an internet connection to play the game, but I won't. It's just not an inconvenience for me, so I won't work up the outrage for it.

With serious and legitimate issues, e.g. the SecuROM complaints and others like it (both Ubisoft and Sony had court challenges to similar practices) people are taking action. And with things like the limited activation for Spore and ME, people did take action and these things are gone now.

Like I said: if it becomes an inconvenience you will see me upset about it, but otherwise I don't care.

[DragonRageGT]

There is an .xlm file in your computer listing every DLC settings and you can edit it and change the "Authorization Required: Yes" to NO and never again you'll received that fraking msg about "the owner of the DLC must log in, etc, etc" or something like that.

There is even a tutorial in the PC tech section of this forum teaching how to do it. Legit owners are legit owners whether they chose no to submit to cr*ppy authentication systems or not!

I chose not to submit to Ubisoft's cr*appy system in AC2 and that makes me no less legit owner of the game!

BTW, DA:O was out there on the very release date, Nov, 03, 2009. When EA Brazil started postponing the release date of my pre-ordered CE edition to Nov 16, then Nov 24, I had no problem at all to play the game which I had already payed for, before lousy suits could deliver it because of bureaucracy and red tapes and greed since my CE arrived with no metal case (card box instead) and no cloth map (plain paper). Pretty lame for the extra 50% I had payed for it.

Modifié par RageGT, 25 janvier 2011 - 03:48 .

[In Exile]

Connect wrote...
And just what makes you think that they would indeed release a patch when the eula CLEARLY states that they have no obligation whatsoever to provide you with assistance, nor do they guarantee the functionality of the product. Are you going to believe in rumours or an official, written document from the publisher?

Putting down the vial of crazy for a second here, having a contract that sets out liability (we have no obligation to help you) is not the same as being unwilling to help. It is a matter of trying to reduce the claim you have against the company if for whatever reason they don't do anything.

Whether or not EA are jerks is entirely independent from the fact that it is good practice to reduce your liability to 0.

[In Exile]

RageGT wrote..


CD Projekt RED's CEO speaks about DRM

“Being a player myself, I’m always surprised to see how many companies focus solely on preventing piracy instead of thinking about how they might encourage players to acquire original game copies. The assumption is that protection is the only way to prevent piracy, but a glance at any file-sharing site demonstrates that this is pure fiction. This assumption is also a good way to forget one of the keys to this business: taking good care of your customers"

- says Marcin Iwiński, CEO of CD Projekt and head of gog.com.

(There are more there)

That seems to feed right into AlanC9's point.

[muse108]

DAO and ME2's drm in regards to DLC gave me nothing but headaches, no I dont always have internet but even when I did this failed completely for my ME2 to the point where I just gave up on it and i've had to fight with my ultimate edition as well. Just integrate with steam and get it over with.

[edeheusch]

edeheusch wrote...

The main game of DAO didn't include drastic DRM! It only require a benign CD check and I have never heard about anybody having problem with it. 
If you speak about the DRM that was protecting the DLCs, it is not a good new as a similar system should protect even the main game of DA2.

Fixed. 

[Nighteye2]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Nighteye2 wrote...
It may well be: activate once, never worry about it again - except when you want to play with DLC enabled, in which case you get the same process as DA:O.

DAO's DLC also only required a single authentication.  After that you didn't need to be online to play.

If you were online, you needed to let it authenticate the DLC, but if you weren't online you did not.  And, with DAO, you could actually launch the game offline, thus avoiding authentication, and then once in the game you could log in to your online account and upload game data and whatnot without having to authorise the DLC first (what benefit this would provide I have no idea, but it could be done).

DA:O's DLC is authenticated every time you start the game. DA2 itself may only be authenticated the first time you start the game.

DA2's DLC, though, will likely also require a brief online connection each time you boot DA2, if you want to play with DLC activated. This will probably also be one of the ways in which they measure that 5-PC limit, since almost everyone will have the DLC from the codes included in the box....

[Qara]

Has anyone seen this story www.kotaku.com/5742816/dead-space-2-steam-purchasers-are-dead-in-the-water about the DRM on new EA dead space 2 failing for steam users. This really isnt a good sign for DA2

Its the legitimate customers you get punished and the pirates who get the best game experience. I think i'll cancel my PC order.

Modifié par csoulsby, 25 janvier 2011 - 06:32 .

[AlanC9]

muse108 wrote...

DAO and ME2's drm in regards to DLC gave me nothing but headaches, no I dont always have internet but even when I did this failed completely for my ME2 to the point where I just gave up on it and i've had to fight with my ultimate edition as well. Just integrate with steam and get it over with.

How is Steam any different from ME2's DRM scheme, except that you personally had a bug with ME2 and didn't have one with Steam?

Edit: whoops! I meant ME1, which muse wasn't complaining about.

Modifié par AlanC9, 25 janvier 2011 - 07:02 .

[DragonRageGT]

csoulsby wrote...

Has anyone seen this story www.kotaku.com/5742816/dead-space-2-steam-purchasers-are-dead-in-the-water about the DRM on new EA dead space 2 failing for steam users. This really isnt a good sign for DA2

Its the legitimate customers you get punished and the pirates who get the best game experience. I think i'll cancel my PC order.

LMAO.. meanwhile, those other x-boxers' can get this. It is out there!.

Dead.Space.2.XBOX3 [2.DISCS] XBox 360 : Full Game : English

[Nighteye2]

csoulsby wrote...
Has anyone seen this story www.kotaku.com/5742816/dead-space-2-steam-purchasers-are-dead-in-the-water about the DRM on new EA dead space 2 failing for steam users. This really isnt a good sign for DA2

Its the legitimate customers you get punished and the pirates who get the best game experience. I think i'll cancel my PC order.

Dead Space 2 does use worse DRM than DA2 will, though. The DRM, while not ideal, is not nearly as bad as other DRMs have been. Is that really enough reason to go for an inferior version of the game, and miss out on the SE content?

[Qara]

Nighteye2 wrote...

Dead Space 2 does use worse DRM than DA2 will, though. The DRM, while not ideal, is not nearly as bad as other DRMs have been. Is that really enough reason to go for an inferior version of the game, and miss out on the SE content?

Hopefully there will be an official announcement soon about the DRM.  I don't have the SE addition so i've no problem changing to the PS3 version if the DRM is too strict.  I'm just sick of being treated like a criminal.

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

Ah, now I understand what you're talking about. Eminent domain is called expropriation in Canada, just in case you were curious (which I'm sure you weren't). But you're basically talking about tin-foil hat moments that are technically possible but absurd.

Expropriation happens.  The government of BC expropriated great swaths of ocean-view real estate north of Vancouver so they could expand the Sea-to-Sky highway in preparation for the Olympics.