480 réponses à ce sujet

[StormbringerGT]

Eurypterid wrote...

-Zorph- wrote...
Wait let me get this straight...

You are cheating yourself out of great games, because you believe that you have even a slightest effect on the develoeprs by boycotting their games? First of all, you are not leading a righteous crusade of not purchasing a product, because most people would see your logic as extremely flawed.

If I really wanted to play a game, I wouldn't simply go against what I want to play as an entertainment product, simply because I believe online activation is wrong. I mean really, hook up an internet connection and activate it, but I guess you can't please them all.

Anyways, what I am trying to say is that you avoiding products is not 'voting with your money', because they could care less if one consumer stops buying their products, and they won't know that you don't agree with the DRM when you avoid them; so how in the world is it saying "Take your DRM and shove it!"

Seriously, your post was either a major joke, or you are a troll. Because I fail to see how making yourself prived from games, is in anyway a good thing.

Even if a business does something you don't agree with, it doesn't matter what you think. Ok, let me rephrase that; everyone has a right to an opinion. However, the developers don't automatically take your opinion and make changes to suit YOU PERSONALLY.

I don't even understand why somebody would think that avoiding games that you want to play just because the publisher/developer put something so minor as a DRM onto their products.

Like what? I don't even...

One voice makes no difference, but many do. Were you around for the outcry about the DRM on ME1? I was (in fact, I was one of the people complaining about it). Guess what? They scaled it back, and then changed it to a simple disc check on ME2. Voting silently with your wallent doesn't make a difference, no. But being vocal about it and then voting with your wallet can.

Personally, I think it's too soon to get up in arms about what may be on DA2 for DRM. Judging by the thread so far, it's not entirely clear how invasive/offensive it will be. I'll wait until I see some further clarification (hopefully from the devs) before I decide whether or not it's on/off my 'to buy' list.

Very true. A voice of many has power, but each person thinks there own voice contains enough power. It all comes down to percentages.

Oh hey does everybody remember a couple years back when gas first hit obscenely high prices? Remember how we all agreed online that we would not buy gas for a week so the gas companies would feel the squeeze? Anyone?
Oh yeah thats right the 100,000 people who didn't buy gas that week had to buy gas next week to fill up their now empty cars. 

Even if this entire board boycotted Dragon Age II. Even if thats 10,000 people I'm guessing thats less than 1% of their customer base. Its not enough to shift anything one way or another.

[WhiteKnyght]

Connect wrote...

Well guys, the EULA for Dragon Age II has just been posted a couple of hours ago on the EA website and it appears that they are going back to the dreadful days of the Mass Effect 1 DRM, even worse in some aspects.

So, here's the deal: you need an EA account, then you need to activate the game on that account and you are limited to running the game on 5 PCs in 24 hours. I realize most people will not play the game on 5 PCs in the same day, but I have a question:

WHAT THE PLOK WAS WRONG WITH THE DRM IN DRAGON AGE 1?

I just don't understand these people. Is it that hard to keep boxed copies on a DISC CHECK only? I thought they have learned their lesson with Mass Effect 1, but it seems they just keep going back to the online activation shenanigans.

Dragon Age Origins, Awakening, Mass Effect 2 - all wonderful games with friendly DRM (disc checks). I even bought 2 copies of Mass Effect 2 at launch to show my support for the friendly DRM. Yes, I bought one extra copy just for the DRM.

Now I have 2 pre-orders for the BioWare signature edition and I am canceling one and will probably cancel the second one too. Screw this, I'll get it in the bargain bin for 3 dollars next year.

If you put online activation DRM in Mass Effect 3 too then I am done with BioWare.

If you buy the console version you don't have to worry about that stuff.

[Loc'n'lol]

StormbringerGT wrote...
gas first hit obscenely high prices

*Checks profile*
*Sees US resident*
*Laughs a little inside*

[Insomniak]

ViSeirA wrote...

What's wrong with online activation? seems pretty reasonable to me, all people have good internet connections now... the DRM that is not acceptable is what Ubisoft did with Assassin's Creed 2 and so on, online activation is perfectly fine.

Don't even get me started on ACII - that was just horrendous! Biggest waste of $60 (DRM was so draconian that I couldn't even play the damn game, ended up renting it from Blockbuster for XBox).  

No, BioWare's done a good job with friendly DRM so far, and I have nothing against online activation. As long as I can actually play what I payed for, then all is well in my world. Accessibility is key.

Modifié par javajedi217, 22 janvier 2011 - 12:49 .

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Oh, and by the way, voting with your money doesn't work. The marginal impact of your purchase is effectively zero.

Even if that wasn't the case, it would still need to be the case that the producers could guess why you didn't buy the game and change that feature. There is always the chance they might reason you bought the game because it did not go far enough in the direction you dislike.

[Meltemph]

DRM wouldn't bother me as much if it actually did something to prevent the problem in the 1st place. All it does, however, is waist their money and our time more often then not. Even still, most DRM is rarely ever problematic for me, but when it is(why hello thar spore) they normally get called out and it and change their toon.



What baffles me the most though, is how much money companies waist trying to figure out ways to slow them down, when it never is worth it. That said, I dunno who to be more aggravated at; the pirates or the developers.



Due to how prevalent piracy has gotten, I have to admit, every-time I see someone who is talking about DAO and doesn't have it registered, I always wonder if they are pirates.

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote..
That makes sense.  Once one party to the contract ceases to exist, the other party owes no one compliance.

I don't think that's the rationale. The issue is IP, since software does not involve owning the software but owning a right to use license that can be freely terminated by the license granting party.

[Jorina Leto]

BTCentral wrote...


Source

FAQ wrote...
Am I able to play my game on more than one computer? Do I need the disc for that?

Yes, you can run the game on at least 5 machines at the same time. You can manage which machines are authorized to play the game using the game-specific de-authorization tool. You can view the number of available authorizations by running the Activation.exe at any time. A shortcut to the Activation tool will have been placed in the game shortcuts. Once a machine is authorized, you no longer need the original disc to play on that machine.

So the Mass Effect DRM is returning? They're using again the system that screws you if your HDD crashs? And the only way to avoid this sucking DRM was Steam. So it's seems I've to channel my pre order.

Oh wait the just 5 activations in 24 hours adds confusion. I need an detailed explanition or I'll have to channel my pre order.

[MuseMajora]

Ugh, this is so obnoxious. I like what GOG are doing with the Witcher 2, maybe EA/Bioware should take note. Still though, guess I'll have to wait and see.

Modifié par MuseMajora, 22 janvier 2011 - 02:03 .

[PsychoBlonde]

*headscratch* Um--I'm not seeing what people are so outraged about, it's not fundamentally different from what they had in Origins if you wanted to be able to use your DLC, and the only problem I ever had with that was when it would mysteriously lose my password and I'd have to go log on to EA's site and change it.



It's not SecuROM. It's not forcing you to install monitoring software that runs in the background.and ****s up your computer. Five PC's at the same time is quite generous--it's far better than FIVE INSTALLS which is what some companies

(Bethesda) give you. It means if your computer dies, you just have to reinstall it, and provided you haven't installed and registered the game on FIVE OTHER MACHINES in the interval, you can play. Sheesh. Also, notice, that it says that you no longer need the disc to play once your machine is authorized . . . that means you CAN play with the disk in the drive and your machine offline (you just won't be able to access your DLC).



It's the same as Origins. Ya'll are freaking out over nothing.

[ItsFreakinJesus]

Everyone knows that within two days of release, the DRM will become circumvented to remove the internet authentication check, and that's being generous. Everyone on these forums know this, so the DRM isn't going to impact you. Buy your game, and after a five minute wait someone is going to come up with a hack that shuts off the DRM so you can play DAII on the off chance your internet goes out or is just plain garbage regardless of stability.

[ZeRoToXiN]

StormbringerGT wrote...

Eurypterid wrote...

-Zorph- wrote...
Wait let me get this straight...

You are cheating yourself out of great games, because you believe that you have even a slightest effect on the develoeprs by boycotting their games? First of all, you are not leading a righteous crusade of not purchasing a product, because most people would see your logic as extremely flawed.

If I really wanted to play a game, I wouldn't simply go against what I want to play as an entertainment product, simply because I believe online activation is wrong. I mean really, hook up an internet connection and activate it, but I guess you can't please them all.

Anyways, what I am trying to say is that you avoiding products is not 'voting with your money', because they could care less if one consumer stops buying their products, and they won't know that you don't agree with the DRM when you avoid them; so how in the world is it saying "Take your DRM and shove it!"

Seriously, your post was either a major joke, or you are a troll. Because I fail to see how making yourself prived from games, is in anyway a good thing.

Even if a business does something you don't agree with, it doesn't matter what you think. Ok, let me rephrase that; everyone has a right to an opinion. However, the developers don't automatically take your opinion and make changes to suit YOU PERSONALLY.

I don't even understand why somebody would think that avoiding games that you want to play just because the publisher/developer put something so minor as a DRM onto their products.

Like what? I don't even...

One voice makes no difference, but many do. Were you around for the outcry about the DRM on ME1? I was (in fact, I was one of the people complaining about it). Guess what? They scaled it back, and then changed it to a simple disc check on ME2. Voting silently with your wallent doesn't make a difference, no. But being vocal about it and then voting with your wallet can.

Personally, I think it's too soon to get up in arms about what may be on DA2 for DRM. Judging by the thread so far, it's not entirely clear how invasive/offensive it will be. I'll wait until I see some further clarification (hopefully from the devs) before I decide whether or not it's on/off my 'to buy' list.

Very true. A voice of many has power, but each person thinks there own voice contains enough power. It all comes down to percentages.

Oh hey does everybody remember a couple years back when gas first hit obscenely high prices? Remember how we all agreed online that we would not buy gas for a week so the gas companies would feel the squeeze? Anyone?
Oh yeah thats right the 100,000 people who didn't buy gas that week had to buy gas next week to fill up their now empty cars. 

Even if this entire board boycotted Dragon Age II. Even if thats 10,000 people I'm guessing thats less than 1% of their customer base. Its not enough to shift anything one way or another.

I hate DRM. I did not buy Crysis Warhead, Act of War, or Starcraft 2 because of DRM (and SC2's one account restriction and the whole mess with the new BNET 2.0).

I don't care if me not buying something becasue I refuse to support certain practices of the company won't make a difference in the end. Excessive DRM is a feature that will prevent me from buying a product. Even if it is a game that sounds really good and I am really interested in it, as with SC2, too much/inconvenient DRM is something that instantly leads to a no buy for me. Simply put, I don't want companies limiting/controlling my use of the video game I buy from them.

I already have DA2 pre-ordered on the 360, I thought I might eventually get it for the PC if there's an ulitmate edition and plenty of worthwhile mods, but if I find the DRM unacceptable, then I won't buy it.

Modifié par ZeRoToXiN, 22 janvier 2011 - 02:34 .

[Connect]

StormbringerGT wrote...
Even if this entire board boycotted Dragon Age II. Even if thats 10,000 people I'm guessing thats less than 1% of their customer base. Its not enough to shift anything one way or another.

Pure speculation. You can't have an estimate, not even they have one. And it makes me laugh thinking that a company can be so... not smart... to think that a pirate who can't play a new game at 00:01 on launch day will just go "I want my game NOW! Damn, no pirated version, so I'm gonna buy it instantly!"

Jorina Leto wrote...

BTCentral wrote...


Source

FAQ wrote...
Am I able to play my game on more than one computer? Do I need the disc for that?

Yes, you can run the game on at least 5 machines at the same time. You can manage which machines are authorized to play the game using the game-specific de-authorization tool.
You can view the number of available authorizations by running the
Activation.exe at any time. A shortcut to the Activation tool will have
been placed in the game shortcuts. Once a machine is authorized, you no
longer need the original disc to play on that machine.

So
the Mass Effect DRM is returning? They're using again the system that
screws you if your HDD crashs? And the only way to avoid this sucking
DRM was Steam. So it's seems I've to channel my pre order.

Oh
wait the just 5 activations in 24 hours adds confusion. I need an
detailed explanition or I'll have to channel my pre order.

No, that FAQ is for SolidShield. But they don't use SolidShield in this title. It's not the same DRM as in Mass Effect 1, but it has the same limitations: online activations, authentications, plus the "added benefit" of forcing you to tie the game to an EA account. An online account for an offline game. It's mind blowing what a flawed system this is.

Everyone knows that within two
days of release, the DRM will become circumvented to remove the internet
authentication check, and that's being generous. Everyone on these
forums know this, so the DRM isn't going to impact you. Buy your game,
and after a five minute wait someone is going to come up with a hack
that shuts off the DRM so you can play DAII on the off chance your
internet goes out or is just plain garbage regardless of
stability.

But that terminates my license. It's clearly stated in the EULA that circumventing copy protection is not allowed. I know that no one will actually check it, but still. It's just like having the pirated version if I'm forced to resort to modified executables that could potentially break the game or have viruses.

And since they only LEND you the license, why make false claims like "BUY DRAGON AGE II NOW"? It should be "RENT DRAGON AGE II NOW". They want you to think you buy it, but only say it in fine print in a 28 page EULA that you actually rent it. Disgusting.

[Lyssistr]

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
You're ignoring that the person could have read all the info off the box, gotten really upset, and then bought the game anyway because the desire to play it was still strong. 

In that case, my point about being a pilchard stands. 

If you don't agree with something, don't bloody buy it. I don't agree with Activision, so I don't buy their games. I don't agree with DA2's direction, so I'm not buying it. I don't agree with Ubisoft's DRM, so I don't buy their games. Even if I really want something, I'm not going to buy it as it goes against what I think. I vote with my money.

If you buy a game that does something you don't like - Such as use Steamworks DRM - All you're saying is "Give me more of it". You're not saying "Take your DRM and shove it", are you?

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Steam's a problem as long as it limits what version of a game I can play. It forces you to patch the game when you install it (there's no way to prevent this), and after you install any patch it's impossible to rollback to an earlier version even by reinstalling.

Steam isn't the only one to do this. Impulse does it, and I believe Direct2Drive and GamersGate games download fully patched, but I could be wrong.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Oh, and by the way, voting with your money doesn't work. The marginal impact of your purchase is effectively zero.

So? It's called having principles, something a lot of people don't seem to have these days. If you don't agree with something, take your business elsewhere - Simple as that.

 Wow, I was starting to think I'm the only one who doesn't give $ on something he can't agree with.

 I have different views on Steam tho, you can backup everything, has an offline mode, you can disable updating. I don't use anything but offline mode, but I consider the option to have these things something essential, one day I will backup my games and I may want to disable updates if e.g. I apply a compatibility patch to an older game (VTMBL maybe!?).

[In Exile]

Jorina Leto wrote...

FAQ wrote...
Am I able to play my game on more than one computer? Do I need the disc for that?

Yes, you can run the game on at least 5 machines at the same time. You can manage which machines are authorized to play the game using the game-specific de-authorization tool. You can view the number of available authorizations by running the Activation.exe at any time. A shortcut to the Activation tool will have been placed in the game shortcuts. Once a machine is authorized, you no longer need the original disc to play on that machine.

So the Mass Effect DRM is returning? They're using again the system that screws you if your HDD crashs? And the only way to avoid this sucking DRM was Steam. So it's seems I've to channel my pre order.

Oh wait the just 5 activations in 24 hours adds confusion. I need an detailed explanition or I'll have to channel my pre order.

My reading (based on run the game ) is that you can't play the game on more than 5 PCs simulatenously, not that you can't install it on more than 5 PCs.

Basically, I think the idea is unlimited installs, but limited number of plays for any one licensed game. Not sure of the rationale of that. You can also deauthorize a PC, apparently, to play on another PC, so basically if you happen to have 6 PCs, you can only play DA:O on any 5 of them, but you can switch which 5 you want at any time.

That's my read of it.

Connect wrote..
And since they only LEND you the license, why
make false claims like "BUY DRAGON AGE II NOW"? It should be
"RENT DRAGON AGE II NOW". They want you to think you buy it, but only
say it in fine print in a 28 page EULA that you actually rent it.
Disgusting.

Technically speaking, it ought to be "BUY THE LICENSE FOR DRAGON AGE II NOW" since rental isn't an accurate description of what you are doing.

They don't lend you a license; they grant you a license that they can retract at any time so long as they give a reasonable warning within a certain period of time.

The relevant information is on the first page of the 28 EULA:

Limited License Grant and Terms of Use.
A. Grant. Through this purchase, you are acquiring and EA grants you a
personal, limited, non-exclusive license to install and use the Software
for your non-commercial use solely as set forth in this License and the
accompanying documentation.

Modifié par In Exile, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:02 .

[The Big Nothing]

Typically, when someone uses an acronym, they explain it first.

[Loerwyn]

tishyw wrote...
Yes, you're right, I should have read the box, I just presumed that it would be the same as Fallout 3.  But that's not really the point, the point is that I had to install 3rd party software to play the boxed copy of a single player game, which I thought was disgusting.

And yet I don't see you complaining about Games for Windows Live, which also installs 3rd party software (It came with Fallout 3). Open. Your. Damn. Eyes. Never presume anything. The New Vegas box doesn't even have Games for Windows Live in the top banner, so how can it be the same?

-Zorph- wrote...
Wait let me get this straight...

You are cheating yourself out of great games, because you believe that you have even a slightest effect on the develoeprs by boycotting their games? First of all, you are not leading a righteous crusade of not purchasing a product, because most people would see your logic as extremely flawed.

If I really wanted to play a game, I wouldn't simply go against what I want to play as an entertainment product, simply because I believe online activation is wrong. I mean really, hook up an internet connection and activate it, but I guess you can't please them all.

Online activations are fine with me. Permanent internet connections for single player aren't, nor are Activision's business practices. I refuse to support them on those grounds alone. And am I really cheating myself out of great games? The only 'great games' I'm missing are Anno 1404 and The Settlers 7, but I could always get earlier iterations of the series and not have to deal with UbiSoft's DRM. Oh, wow, I miss out on Cash of Duty, Guitar Yawn Hero and Brown Simulator's Creed 2 + Brotherhood. 

-Zorph- wrote...
Anyways, what I am trying to say is that you avoiding products is not 'voting with your money', because they could care less if one consumer stops buying their products, and they won't know that you don't agree with the DRM when you avoid them; so how in the world is it saying "Take your DRM and shove it!"

It says "Take your DRM and shove it!" more than buying the game does, doesn't it?

-Zorph- wrote...
Even if a business does something you don't agree with, it doesn't matter what you think. Ok, let me rephrase that; everyone has a right to an opinion. However, the developers don't automatically take your opinion and make changes to suit YOU PERSONALLY.

I never said it matters what I think. I'm not compromising my beliefs and my 'ideals' to play a damn game, though. It's not a case of one person changing the world, it's a case of me being part of a number that are making a statement. No, I won't register on a developer's forum just to moan about them, because how is that being productive? If I'm there anyway (Like here!) and I like their products, I'll do so.

[Jonp382]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Also, notice, that it says that you no longer need the disc to play once your machine is authorized . . . that means you CAN play with the disk in the drive and your machine offline (you just won't be able to access your DLC).

I suspect that despite the wording, EA does not intend to allow us to play the game without authorizing online. But if you're right, that would be ideal as far as DRM goes.

OnlyShallow89 wrote...

tishyw wrote...
Yes, you're right, I should have read the box, I just presumed that it would be the same as Fallout 3.  But that's not really the point, the point is that I had to install 3rd party software to play the boxed copy of a single player game, which I thought was disgusting.

And yet I don't see you complaining about Games for Windows Live, which also installs 3rd party software (It came with Fallout 3).

You don't have to install GFWL in order to play the game. That or it's completely inconspicuous. I have not messed with GFWL since installing Fallout 3.

[Loerwyn]

Jonp382 wrote...
You don't have to install GFWL in order to play the game. That or it's completely inconspicuous. I have not messed with GFWL since installing Fallout 3.

GfWL installs alongside the game.

[FellowerOfOdin]

I greatly appreciate those methods. DRM is necessary. Absolutely necessary.



Everyone who thinks that a "check for disc" copy protection is sufficient has no idea of how piracy works nowadays. Dragon Age II will be a AAA game and thus a lot of idiots will pirate it. The harder this gets, the better. And about the people who do not have an internet connection:



a) It's an incredibly small minority. Practically everyone in the western world has some kind of internet connection by now.



There will be a message on the box saying "You need an online connection to activate this product."....so don't buy it when you don't have one.



I am fine with the hardest copy protection as long as it does not require a permanent internet connection...we all saw how Ubisoft failed.

[Jorina Leto]

In Exile wrote...

Jorina Leto wrote...

FAQ wrote...
Am I able to play my game on more than one computer? Do I need the disc for that?

Yes, you can run the game on at least 5 machines at the same time. You can manage which machines are authorized to play the game using the game-specific de-authorization tool. You can view the number of available authorizations by running the Activation.exe at any time. A shortcut to the Activation tool will have been placed in the game shortcuts. Once a machine is authorized, you no longer need the original disc to play on that machine.

So the Mass Effect DRM is returning? They're using again the system that screws you if your HDD crashs? And the only way to avoid this sucking DRM was Steam. So it's seems I've to channel my pre order.

Oh wait the just 5 activations in 24 hours adds confusion. I need an detailed explanition or I'll have to channel my pre order.

My reading (based on run the game ) is that you can't play the game on more than 5 PCs simulatenously, not that you can't install it on more than 5 PCs.

Basically, I think the idea is unlimited installs, but limited number of plays for any one licensed game. Not sure of the rationale of that. You can also deauthorize a PC, apparently, to play on another PC, so basically if you happen to have 6 PCs, you can only play DA:O on any 5 of them, but you can switch which 5 you want at any time.

That's my read of it.

Manual De-Authorization makes it impossible to deauthorize your system if your HDD crashs. That's my problem with this DRM.

[imkaoo]

My problem with DRM is that it assumes that I am a thief and it needs to watch me and control me.

And this is insulting.

Modifié par imkaoo, 22 janvier 2011 - 10:44 .

[Yrkoon]

StormbringerGT wrote...

Even if this entire board boycotted Dragon Age II. Even if thats 10,000 people I'm guessing thats less than 1% of their customer base. Its not enough to shift anything one way or another.

 But at the same time, when 1% decides to Pirate a game, the big corporations take notice, and start putting out  annoying things like DRMs.