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Mass Effect 2 starts the series?


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#51
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JeanLuc761 wrote...

I personally disagree in almost all respects. I'm a huge fan of both games and I'm actually quite content with the direction they took Mass Effect 2, even if it wasn't what I was expecting. The decision to focus the story on the characters rather than the Reapers was an extremely welcome for me, as it allowed me to connect to my squadmates even more than I could in the first game.

As for your points, let me respond to them directly:
1) Mass Effect 2 started the series over.

No it didn't, it simply took the series in an unexpected direction. It absolutely continued the story, but it was more focused on the personal aspect of the upcoming war (something that I imagine will be very important to players in Mass Effect 3, assuming the squadmates remain the same). It also allowed for the expansion of multiple important substories (geth/quarian conflict, genophage, etc) that were touched upon in Mass Effect 1, but were brought strongly to attention in Mass Effect 2.

2) Everyone abandons Shepard after he dies and nobody believes the Reapers are a threat.

- With the exception of the idiot Council, this one is flat-out wrong. Every single person on the Normandy SR-2 knows the Reapers are real, and they know that the Collectors are agents of the Reapers. Your squadmates from ME1 are intelligent enough to remember the coming threat as well, even if Wrex and the Virmire Survivor never directly say it.


Now, Mass Effect 2 wasn't perfect. I desperately wanted more squad interaction (everything felt disjointed in that respect), the plot points dealing with the Reapers were competent, but nowhere near the level of tension that the first game gave, and the combat, while improved, still needs some refining.

Beyond that, I think Mass Effect 2 was an incredible game. The characters were better written and even more believable than the first game, the combat was more intuitive and fluid, the "interrupts" was a very welcome addition to the conversation system, the visuals and sound design were heavily upgraded, and the story as a whole (squadmates included) was still a joyous and profound experience.

Mass Effect 2 wasn't what everyone expected...but I still think it's the best game I've played in a very, very long time.


1) They have established that the Reapers have to be stopped and that many conflicts (Cerberus etc) may hinder this effort to an unknown extent. Then they take all that, wrap into a pink plastic bag and burn it with the death of Shepard, his 2 year absence, work for Cerberus and total distrust to Shepard. Too many ways where Shepard could prove his point without all the retcons. :D 

(Other people have already made the analysis of these issues, so I won't bother repeating.)

2) See #1.

Also, when you fail the expectations, then it means you were lying or otherwise giving an impression you could not fulfill. So this is actually against your point.

Modifié par NewMessageN00b, 29 janvier 2011 - 12:12 .


#52
Babli

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Mesina2 wrote...
Well you owe that Drell life.
Besides SB is threat to you and why not save him and take care of SB + Liara to take his place.
Also LotSB prevously was part of ME2 but later cut out since Bioware wasn't happy with end result.
And didn't she talked about becoming SB? Cause it she isn't ambitious. Besides since DLC is announced everybody knew she will take his place.

I m willing to drop Liara´s case since I can now skip whole SB stuff on Illium and get right to the action of taking him down. But before LotSB it was terrible.

What would be the point of talking about Reapers? We would just talk about what we already know so pointless.

And how Wrex can know that Shepard doesnt have some new information? He saw him for the first time after he died. After 2 years...

Wasn't it explained that they were thinking Cerberus is involved with colonist abduction and they suspected Horizon will be next to be attacked and reason then thought that is because Illusive Man "slipped" some info?

That may be it and may not. Maybe there is something more. We dont know.

And how is ME2 a bad sequel? You didn't prove it.

And why should I prove you anything? Its my opinion as I stated before and I dont need to prove it. I dont present  my opinion as a fact. If you are happy with what you got in ME 2, then good for you.

GuardianAngel470 wrote...
Well, DA:O was in development for
five-six years and ME2 was in development for two. You can't really
compare the two's squad banter.

And thats the problem. Why rush it? Few another months in development and we could have also great squad banter. It would take just like 20 sentences for every squadmate. For example, we could lost Samara´s loyalty if we didnt saved workers on Zaeed´s mission and it would take just a few words to say on his mission from her. Thats not much what I´m asking for right? Details are what makes differences. Thats why I always take Tali on Legions mission, because its far more interesting then with someone who has nothing to say.

#53
CroGamer002

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Babli wrote...

And thats the problem. Why rush it? Few another months in development and we could have also great squad banter. It would take just like 20 sentences for every squadmate. For example, we could lost Samara´s loyalty if we didnt saved workers on Zaeed´s mission and it would take just a few words to say on his mission from her. Thats not much what I´m asking for right? Details are what makes differences. Thats why I always take Tali on Legions mission, because its far more interesting then with someone who has nothing to say.



Didn't Samara said: "Your morals, are my morals."?

And why would she lose loyalty? She is only focused on Morinth.

#54
Babli

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Mesina2 wrote...

Didn't Samara said: "Your morals, are my morals."?

Yeah, but only until suicide mission and she could say something before decision is made. Same for other characters. Tali could say that we should save workers while Garrus would want to go after Vido. So point still stands.

And why would she lose loyalty? She is only focused on Morinth.

That doesnt mean she ignore unjustice as was proved many times in her dialogues.

#55
didiware

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I enjoyed ME2 alot, but yes, the story wasn't a 100%... And as Babli said; They didn't have to rush, and I do hope they're not rushing ME3, because that game may become awesome overload, if they do it right :)

#56
leeboi2

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It feels like this because they wanted 'it to be okay for new players', so don't be surprised if 3 is the same...

#57
The Spamming Troll

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Mesina2 wrote...

mangeo wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i agree with mangeo.

mass effect 3 is going to be more like Mass Effect2: part2.

id rather eat poop.




Well thank you!!!
I would rather eat poop also!!!



Are you guys 12?


why, because only 12 year olds like to eat poop?

ME2 didnt need ME1 at all. its a different game. ME2, to me, resembles more of gears of war with biotics, then what i started with in ME1. ME1 blew my mind. ME2 is a measly little weekend rental. ME2 gives me blue balls. i feel like it should have been so much more, when it offered so much less.

#58
Rune-Chan

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I'd really laugh if the members of Bioware read these forums and then created a topic saying "**** it, we are sick of trying to please all of you whiners. We can't seem to win no matter what we try, if we kept it the same you'd complain, if we change it you complain so we give up, no Mass Effect 3".

#59
CroGamer002

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Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Didn't Samara said: "Your morals, are my morals."?

Yeah, but only until suicide mission and she could say something before decision is made. Same for other characters. Tali could say that we should save workers while Garrus would want to go after Vido. So point still stands.

And why would she lose loyalty? She is only focused on Morinth.

That doesnt mean she ignore unjustice as was proved many times in her dialogues.




Every mission except LotSB doesn't acknowledge you did Suicide Mission.
As an example my Shepard said to dr. Archer that Illusive Man can fire him if he doesn't agree for letting Archer go in Overlord but my Shepard blew up Collector Base and quit Cerberus.
And it still wouldn't make her disloyal. Loyalty in ME2 means entire focus on mission, not THE loyalty.

#60
CroGamer002

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The Spamming Troll wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

mangeo wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i agree with mangeo.

mass effect 3 is going to be more like Mass Effect2: part2.

id rather eat poop.




Well thank you!!!
I would rather eat poop also!!!



Are you guys 12?


why, because only 12 year olds like to eat poop?

ME2 didnt need ME1 at all. its a different game. ME2, to me, resembles more of gears of war with biotics, then what i started with in ME1. ME1 blew my mind. ME2 is a measly little weekend rental. ME2 gives me blue balls. i feel like it should have been so much more, when it offered so much less.



Oh my God, you remind me on Irategamer fanboys.


And did you even played Gears of War? Besides cover mechanic games don't look even remotely similar.

#61
CroGamer002

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Machines Are Us wrote...

I'd really laugh if the members of Bioware read these forums and then created a topic saying "**** it, we are sick of trying to please all of you whiners. We can't seem to win no matter what we try, if we kept it the same you'd complain, if we change it you complain so we give up, no Mass Effect 3".




I can decide would that be cruel or hilarious.:?

#62
The Spamming Troll

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Mesina2 wrote...


Oh my God, you remind me on Irategamer fanboys.


And did you even played Gears of War? Besides cover mechanic games don't look even remotely similar.



no idea what that first comment means, but im gonna take it as a compliment anyways.

i have played gears of war, thats why im comparing it to ME2. i didnt say ME2 was like red dead redemption, army of two, GTA, dead space, uncharted, resident evil, lost planet, dead to rights, hitman, max payne, tomb raider, GRAW, splinter cell, MGS, and all the other TPS games out there. ME2 reminds me of playing gears of war, but with brighter colors. sorry if that dissapoints you by me saying that, because i can gaurantee you it doesnt come close to the dissapointment(with adepts) i have with the so called sequal to MASS EFFECT.

Mesina2 wrote...

Machines Are Us wrote...

I'd
really laugh if the members of Bioware read these forums and then
created a topic saying "**** it, we are sick of trying to please all of
you whiners. We can't seem to win no matter what we try, if we kept it
the same you'd complain, if we change it you complain so we give up, no
Mass Effect 3".




I can decide would that be cruel or hilarious.[smilie]../../../../images/forum/emoticons/uncertain.png[/smilie]


funny you mention this, because its almost exactly what i feel right now. the more people complained about something whether it was the mako or elevators the more bioware simply just removed it.

ME3 will become a shell of what ME1 was.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 29 janvier 2011 - 08:57 .


#63
Babli

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Mesina2 wrote...

Babli wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Didn't Samara said: "Your morals, are my morals."?

Yeah, but only until suicide mission and she could say something before decision is made. Same for other characters. Tali could say that we should save workers while Garrus would want to go after Vido. So point still stands.

And why would she lose loyalty? She is only focused on Morinth.

That doesnt mean she ignore unjustice as was proved many times in her dialogues.

Every mission except LotSB doesn't acknowledge you did Suicide Mission.
As an example my Shepard said to dr. Archer that Illusive Man can fire him if he doesn't agree for letting Archer go in Overlord but my Shepard blew up Collector Base and quit Cerberus.
And it still wouldn't make her disloyal. Loyalty in ME2 means entire focus on mission, not THE loyalty.

Doesnt matter, my point stands in another sentence. Interaction between squadmates is very low, almost non-existent.

#64
CroGamer002

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^I agree with that but still, Samara getting disloyal for that?

#65
AdmiralCheez

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mangeo wrote...

Confusing title i know.....

I am no fan of Mass Effect 2 as anyone who knows me will tell you....Image IPB

Yeah, I know, but I happened to enjoy it, despite its flaws.

Although probably the most obvious thing about the sequal that ruined the story was
the fact that it felt like starting the series over again ya know?

The result of trying to make the game "stand-alone."  However, it DID maintain a chronology of sorts with the first, build on the first game's characters and plot (albeit poorly in some places), and continue with the whole "da Reapaz is coming!" theme.  It felt like "starting over" because you were facing a new enemy and not taking on the Reapers directly.  Honestly, though, if we finished off Harby and Friends in ME2, what the hell would we be doing in ME3?  Chasing mercs?  Having little blue children?

I don't know how many people thought of this, but the fact that ME2 seems like a fresh start may have to do with the fact that ME1 did not end on a cliff-hanger.  If it had, setting up a sequel would have been easy.  However, because ME1 was equally as "stand-alone" as ME2, it didn't leave much room for ME2 to answer the question, "Okay, what now?"  All well and good, I suppose, since I hate cliffhangers (ZOMG why are we stopping right before the final battle LAME!)  However, even though they tied up their endings nicely, both left you itching for more--the Reapers are still out there, and the war is far from over.

You spend the entire first game convincing the galaxy & your crew that the reapers are
a real species & a real threat to us & as soon as you die your whole squad & the whole
galaxy just abandones the idea as if it were riding on Shepards shoulders the whole time!

You expected for everyone to buy Shepard's doomsday, sky-is-falling, 9/11-was-an-inside-job hysteria?  The problem with something like the Reapers is that it's so hard to believe that most people don't.  Besides, the average citizen probably only heard what the news told them: the Citadel was attacked by a rogue Spectre and a sh*t-ton of geth.  Those that do know the truth (Anderson, the old Normandy crew, the Council) either lack the power to do anything about it or have their heads so far up their asses that they refuse to accept the whole Reaper spiel.

Additionally, the fact that you were drawn into the game enough to feel frustrated at the Council's stupidity shows some masterful storytelling, as it got you to care about the plot and want to see Shepard succeed.

There were so many places the sequal could have & needed to go but never got to
because of that terrible plot they went with...

While ME2's plot was lackluster, you really don't have a lot of room to run around in the middle chapter of a trilogy.  You can't move too far forward, otherwise the plot will get resolved one sequel too early.  Sometimes, sidetracking it is the best thing to do.  Didn't work too well in this case, but at least we have

1. learned more about the methods and intentions of the Reapers
2. gathered more allies to fight them
3. foiled yet another Reaper plot to f*ck with our sh*t.

Opinions?Image IPB

The middle part of a trilogy is often hardest to write.  In part one, all you have to do is introduced the setting, the characters, and the conflict.  In part three, you resolve the conflict in the flashiest way possible.  Part two is that weird stuff in-between that glues it together, like character development, plot twists, and building tension.  While middle parts are often the most dramatic, they do the least in advancing the plot.  For example, in Fellowship of the Ring, we learn that Frodo has to save the day by dropping the One Ring into Mount Doom.  In Two Towers, there's a lot of running around and fighting, but Frodo is hardly anywhere closer to Mount Doom.  In Return of the King, the ring thing is finally dealt with.  Or take Star Wars, where in A New Hope they win the day and defeat the Empire by blowing up the Death Star, and what happens in the next two movies?  They build a-f*cking-nother one.  I'm sure Luke Skywalker was privately thinking, "Jesus Christ, I have to do this again?"

Kind of like how in ME1 you stop the Reapers, but in ME3 they show up anyway.

Yeah, there were times in ME2 where I wanted to punch Marc Walters in the face (Shepard is brought back to life, Horizon, Baby Terminator).  However, there were times in ME1 where I wanted to punch Drew Karpyshyn as well (Matriarch Benezia's death scene, for example).

ME2 could have been done better, sure, but what with all the variables that could be carried over into ME3, it had no choice but to be the most restricted as far as plot-advancement goes.  Yeah, recruitment-loyalty-repeat got repetitive, but it's not like the missions weren't enjoyable for the most part.  That's the risk with trying something new: it could very well fall flat on its face.  To be honest, I'm glad Bioware tried so many new things out in ME2 as it allowed them to sort out what works and what doesn't, thus giving them a clearer idea of what to do with ME3.

Instead of saying "ME2 suxxxx," why don't you suggest what they could have done differently?  If it should have been more plot-centered, what should have been done with the plot?  Would you honestly cut content, like a certain loyalty mission or a whole squadmate?  What direction would you have taken the story in?  These questions are pretty hard to answer, so it's expected that even the developers would stumble over them a little.

#66
Babli

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Mesina2 wrote...

^I agree with that but still, Samara getting disloyal for that?

It was just example. Like Wynne in DA:O would leave you if you became a blood mage or something like that. I didnt choose that path but I think something like that was possible. But it was mainly about that, that she could say at least something like "are you sure?" or anything. Every squadmate would have to say something about every decision. Perfect example is Grunt on Mordins loyalty as i stated earlier.

Mordin: What do we do about Genophage research?
Grunt: ...
Shepard: Destroy it. Krogans are dangerous.
Grunt: ...
Mordin: You are right, research destroyed.
Grunt: ...
Mordin: Can we go now?
Grunt: ...
Shepard: Yes, we should go.
Grunt: ....

Really Grunt? You have nothing to say about that? :whistle: Again, every squadmate should have said something during decisions like this. In ME 1 everyone said something about Rachni Queen or saving the council. I hope that these interactions will come back in ME 3.

Modifié par Babli, 29 janvier 2011 - 09:32 .


#67
Gokuthegrate

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ME2 was just used to get BW to test the graphics and shooting changes they made.


#68
CroGamer002

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^That statement is just wrong.

#69
Gokuthegrate

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Mesina2 wrote...

^That statement is just wrong.

Just saying that BW didnt add a lot to the story started in 1.

#70
AdmiralCheez

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Gokuthegrate wrote...

Just saying that BW didnt add a lot to the story started in 1.

That's partially because they honestly couldn't.  See above Wall-O-Text for an explanation.

#71
pmac_tk421

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didiware wrote...

I enjoyed ME2 alot, but yes, the story wasn't a 100%... And as Babli said; They didn't have to rush, and I do hope they're not rushing ME3, because that game may become awesome overload, if they do it right :)


If you are waiting for a completely original plot yo will be waiting a very long time. There have never been truly unique fantasies since Lord of the Rings.

#72
Gokuthegrate

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AdmiralCheez wrote...

Gokuthegrate wrote...

Just saying that BW didnt add a lot to the story started in 1.

That's partially because they honestly couldn't.  See above Wall-O-Text for an explanation.

So me thinking that  BW trying to bring in people who didnt play the first is correct?

#73
AdmiralCheez

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Gokuthegrate wrote...

So me thinking that  BW trying to bring in people who didnt play the first is correct?

That, and middle chapters are the most restricted as to what they can accomplish in terms of the plot, especially a plot in which your decisions carry over.  They can't resolve the main conflict yet, but they can build on it.

#74
Guest_mangeo_*

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Machines Are Us wrote...

I'd really laugh if the members of Bioware read these forums and then created a topic saying "**** it, we are sick of trying to please all of you whiners. We can't seem to win no matter what we try, if we kept it the same you'd complain, if we change it you complain so we give up, no Mass Effect 3".



God dude wow...
EA is in charge ,EA ruined the sequal & EA will ruin the finalie.....

#75
Jarek_Cousland

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the only thing I really miss is the ability to wear light armor. I hate how we pretty much HAVE to wear heavy armor.