141 réponses à ce sujet

[Johnny Shepard]

First of all, I'm no troll as you can se if you check my older threads. Also, please discuss in a fare way without insults och namecalling!

I really have trouble with the new Darkspawn design
lorewise. I haven't complained about anything in Dragon Age II but I'm
just having big problems with this. Since I know some other also have troubles with the changes but some like it I thought a discussion might be good. Maybe someone will make me feel bather.


Ogre



They look mostly the same. Got no problem with them.


Hurlock



I got no real problem with Hurlocks. They look much the same as they did in Awakening to me. Only the teeth that bothers me but its a really small thing and I wouldn't have cared if the description of them wasn't that they have skarp teeth build to tear flesh apart. But it's no big lore changing thing.


Emissary



I got no problem with them being giants. But now they are a new sort of Darkspawn while in Origins they where magic users and more intelligent versions of Hurlocks and Genlocks. Now, I never liked the Emissary design in Origin and I from the beginning wanted them to be a seperate sort of Darkspawn. But now it was shown not to be that way in Origins and I axepted it.
But now suddenly that has changed. Are Emissarys still the only ones that can talk? Can you se yourself having a coversation with THIS:

And what does this make of the talking Emissarys in Awakening? Lost, First, Withered, Herald? Did they really look like this? How does it work with the new design? Does this mean that some things happened and some didn't? If so, what was real and what was not real in Origins and Awakening?

Edit: David Gaider have made it clear that Emissary is not a "class". This is just a new form of Emissary and the others still exist, noting that the others may not be in DA2 but that doesn't mean that they do not exist.
Thank you David!


Genlock



When did they become half ape half Bronto? This is supose to be the most commen form of Darkspawn? Or has that changed? Are they now some rare form of Darkspawn or bosses? I'm having a hard time thinking that we will fight hords of them or that they will run around everywhere attacking you with arrows and swords.
Now, maybe it's not really a lore change but it is a big change. The bigest of all the designe changes.


Shriek



If this is how they will look in DA2 then there is no real change. I got no problem with them. Maybe they could have been changed some because they look like some Alien from Mass Effect in a spacesuit.



No, this is nothing that will stop me from getting the game or loving it but it will make me grind my teeth some what. And I must confess, when I first saw the design of Emissary and Genlocks I wanted to strangle the designer for not having any regard for the former desaign what so ever.

I know the devs have said that they have no problems with the ganges but Im having a hard time thinking that the writers really have no problem with it. It's just that they can't say anything else in public (and rightly so since they are a part of a team).

So, what do you think? Do I have some points or am I compleatly wrong? What do you think? Discuss!
But please remember to be friendly. Thisn is after all just a game and not life orn death! Lets have a nice friendly descussion.

Modifié par Johnny Shepard, 24 janvier 2011 - 04:19 .

[jomonoe]

Huh, I didn't know that that is what the new Genlock looks like. The way I think about it, the game spans 10 years, right? So maybe the darkspawn noticed that their current types of darkspawn weren't getting the job done and decided to change things up. So instead of having a Genlock which was basically a small Hurlock, they somehow began breeding in a way that would produce the big, stalky Genlocks and rabid looking hurlocks.



Of course, their is a major flaw in what I propose: the new hurlocks and possibly new genlocks might be faced before the 1 year story in Origins is over. If that is the case, the it wouldn't make any sense that the darkspawn were creating new variants of darkspawn since their defeat wouldn't have happened yet.



Of course, there is the obvious solution of the devs and writers and artists simply wanting things this way. And they can do what they did with the horned Qunari by saying "Well, just because you didn't see them in Origins, doesn't mean they don't exist." Which is a pretty weak reasoning but necessary to make the Qunari look more menacing. So they could just say "Yeah, there were always Genlocks and Emissarys that looked like this, you just never saw them". Weak, but acceptable.

[Eudaemonium]

I have to admit, I like that Genlock design 50000 times more than the one in DAO. DAO Genlocks just looked like orcs. I'll wait to see what they look like in game tho.

[JamesX]

It is an art choice to make them look more alien than just humans and dwarves with leprosy. I don't see how this change the lore though. They are still humanoid with opposable thumbs, so nothing they could have done before is out of reach for them now.

I am fairly sure it is an art decision and not a "evolution" of dark spawn.  I personally like the new design for them.

Modifié par JamesX, 22 janvier 2011 - 12:44 .

[Johnny Shepard]

jomonoe wrote...

Huh, I didn't know that that is what the new Genlock looks like.

Well, there probobly will be some difference (like Journeys and Origins) but in general this is the new Genlocks.

[In Exile]

All of them make sense... except for the genlock. I'm not quite sure what the hell that's supposed to be and how in any way it looks like a dwarf.

[Johnny Shepard]

JamesX wrote...

It is an art choice to make them look more alien than just humans and dwarves with leprosy. I don't see how this change the lore though. They are still humanoid with opposable thumbs, so nothing they could have done before is out of reach for them now.

But what about the Emissary now being their own sort and not being Hulocks or Genlocks. What does that do to, say, Awakening where there where all these talking Hurlock Emissarys playing an importent part?

[DarthCaine]

Dunno why, but the Ogre seems to be smiling in every screen I've seen

[krogen117]

I am totally with you on most points except, i dont like the entire design of the hurlock, the face in the second picture looks okay but i would prefere some consistancy with origins. i don't know why some people are saying that they are ment to look diseased, as far as i know they are only carriors of a disease we know as the taint, they them selves are not infected with it, i have not read any information in the dragon age lore that says that. i should point out that none of us trully know the origins of the darkspawn the chantry theory is most likely wrong as gaider has mentioned, for all we know they probably came from another world through one of those elven mirrors centuries ago for what purpose who knows.



They just look so off now like they do not belong in this setting i kind of feel like it's going to make the game feel a bit silly and put a mockery on the whole gritty feeling. anyways that is my opinion and obviously the new look is very objective.

[JamesX]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

JamesX wrote...

It is an art choice to make them look more alien than just humans and dwarves with leprosy. I don't see how this change the lore though. They are still humanoid with opposable thumbs, so nothing they could have done before is out of reach for them now.

But what about the Emissary now being their own sort and not being Hulocks or Genlocks. What does that do to, say, Awakening where there where all these talking Hurlock Emissarys playing an importent part?

Their appearance and Origins does not affect their role in Darkspawn Hierachy (don't want to say society) does it?

[lv12medic]

I don't know. I'll miss the old little buggers from DA:O. I don't think having a visual redesign completely nullifies everything that happens in DA:O/A/DLC's. Emissaries being unique looking vs. looking the same as everyone else but casting spells and talking doesn't really mean much. Story wise this stuff still happened. Just the visual representation of it is changing.

[Dev824804]

I like the hurlock design, but I can stand the other design I can tolerate.

[SammyJB17]

Love all changes made to DA 2, except 1: Dialogue wheel (seems out-of-place on the awesome UI) and Darkspawn design. Ogre is fine, Emmisaries are fine, but just hurlocks look really odd to me. I just dislike them enourmously. Ah well, nothing we can do about it, so let's enjoy

[Harid]

I have no problem with Ogres.



Hurlocks bother me. In DA:O there were different looking Hurlocks, these all look the same, making the design feel lazier. And the dolphin teeth bother me. I guess Archdemons provided a good dental plan and 401k. Their teeth are whiter than most people I see on a regular basis. The design of the Disciples were perfect to me. This is a major step back. I don't know how they expect them to talk in the future without lips, but I suppose they didn't think that far forward, or we are never seeing talking darkspawn again.



Don't have a problem with the emissaries besides them all looking the same and being super tall for no reason. I can understand it for the Ogres, based on Qunari size. Emissaries seem based on Elves now, and Elves aren't any taller than humans. . .corrupted elves shouldn't gain mythical height.



Genlocks look like half ape/half brontos. Doesn't look like they can even carry weapons anymore. If they can no longer use magic, I don't have a problem with that, they should not have been able to use magic in the first place.



I fear what shrieks are going to look like. Probably Driders keeping up with the changing **** for the sake of changing **** trend they are going for. Hell, lets make them Man-bats. Because at least they'll be Biowares. News flash, if Bioware thinks people thought DA looked generic because of the Darkspawn, then they need to research better. It was more than the Darkspawn. And fans generally don't like it when you change **** for the sake of it after a successful predecessor.

[Dave of Canada]

I like the new darkspawn more.

Ogres didn't blend in with the mudspawn and now they fit in perfectly fine with the new darkspawn who sort of look like their "parent" race.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 22 janvier 2011 - 12:58 .

[In Exile]

[quote]Harid wrote...

I have no problem with Ogres.

[quote]Hurlocks bother me. In DA:O there were different looking Hurlocks, these all look the same, making the design feel lazier. [/quote]

? All the DA:O hurlock were identical - they just wore different armour.

[quote]The design of the Disciples were perfect to me. This is a major step back. I don't know how they expect them to talk in the future without lips, but I suppose they didn't think that far forward, or we are never seeing talking darkspawn again. [/quote]

? Have you looked at the new hurlocks? They look like the diciplines rather almost exactly.

[quote]Don't have a problem with the emissaries besides them all looking the same and being super tall for no reason. I can understand it for the Ogres, based on Qunari size. Emissaries seem based on Elves now, and Elves aren't any taller than humans. . .corrupted elves shouldn't gain mythical height.  [/quote]

Corrupted Qunari do gain height, though. So there is clear precent from DA:O for this sort of shift.

[quote]I fear what shrieks are going to look like. Probably Driders keeping up with the changing **** for the sake of changing **** trend they are going for. Hell, lets make them Man-bats. Because at least they'll be Biowares. News flash, if Bioware thinks people thought DA looked generic because of the Darkspawn, then they need to research better. It was more than the Darkspawn. And fans generally don't like it when you change **** for the sake of it after a successful predecessor. [/quote]

I would think we don't get any shrieks at all - the emissaries seem to have replaced the shrieks.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

The tale is the thing. I could care less what the set looks like, or the costumes, or even how the actors look. Just tell me a good ****ing story and I'm all in. Bioware is going to tell me a great story with DA2, I'm sure.



So all the complaints about lore and appearance? I could care less. I do see where you're coming from, but I just don't care. It'll be a good story and that's why they're getting my monets.

[Johnny Shepard]

JamesX wrote...

Johnny Shepard wrote...

JamesX wrote...

It is an art choice to make them look more alien than just humans and dwarves with leprosy. I don't see how this change the lore though. They are still humanoid with opposable thumbs, so nothing they could have done before is out of reach for them now.

But what about the Emissary now being their own sort and not being Hulocks or Genlocks. What does that do to, say, Awakening where there where all these talking Hurlock Emissarys playing an importent part?

Their appearance and Origins does not affect their role in Darkspawn Hierachy (don't want to say society) does it?

No, but that would mean that thoes Emissarys (Lost, First, Herald, Withered aso) really looked like they do in Dragon Age II and that there are no Hurlock Emissary or Genlock Emissary, just Emissary. And talking.
My first reaction to the new Emissary was that they looked really silly. So now the friendly Emissary who helps you save the city/keep in Awakening looked like that? And he then when around descised as human, saving people. How could a giant alien looking thing like the new Emissary go and pass for human, living with them?

[October Sixth]

I don't have any problems with any of the art changes. As for:



"And what does this make of the talking Emissarys in Awakening? Lost, First, Withered, Herald? Did they really look like this? How does it work with the new design? Does this mean that some things happened and some didn't? If so, what was real and what was not real in Origins and Awakening?"



I'm willing to wait and see how they handle it. Maybe they only show up after the Architect.

[Tleining]

"And what does this make of the talking Emissarys in Awakening? Lost, First, Withered, Herald? Did they really look like this? How does it work with the new design?"

uh, The Lost and The First were Disciples, Darkspawn that drank the Blood of Grey Warden and became something more than Darkspawn.



Why should the Design-changes in DA2 change what happened in DA:O? The Bioware-Officials compared this to Design-changes in comics. Different Artists try different things for how the characters look. It doesn't change the past.



Kinda like in ME2, where you could modify Shepards appearance, but everyone still recognized him/her.

[Guitar-Hero]

I love it, in the first game they were bland and boring, the version is original in the way it deals with contrast, its so much more impactful, the first game was overall very muddy and brown which made the darkspawn fade in to the background and die out, this is somewhat irrelevant but the music especially was frustrating to listen to, i know Inon Zur is a great composer and i really admire his work, but the darkspawn theme, and redcliffe at night theme were very hard for the ears.

[Dave of Canada]

Now I'm curious about one thing about Emissaries, they sort of look like elves (as they should) and they are really tall... what would a shriek look like if it wasn't hunched over? Just willing to see how they compare in height.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:08 .

[slimgrin]

It's the darkspawn armor that I don't like. The up close shots of their faces are wicked. I've never been too fond of the trees that ogres have growing out of their heads. Emissaries look pretty cool, but damn they're tall now.

Modifié par slimgrin, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:52 .

[Harid]

I don't like how they all wear the same armor. Bugs me.  Makes them feel more jabroni-ish.

Modifié par Harid, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:10 .

[Dave of Canada]

They wore all the same armor in Origins too, darkspawn love coordinating outfits before raids.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 22 janvier 2011 - 01:10 .