250 réponses à ce sujet

[Seagloom]

This Alistair giving a speech thing always puzzles me. Maybe it is because I remember this moment on Dantooine in KotOR2 when the Exile, another silent protagonist, could give a speech to the enclave's defenders to mentally prepare them for an invasion by mercenaries. Sure there were no cinematic frills in that scene and number of characters were far fewer, but I got to make my character give a rousing speech. I was also able to select exactly what approach she took; whether it was reminding them about protecting their families or appealing to their sense of honor and duty.



I also remember "Jade Empire", where the spirit monk's expression changed depending on the tone of a selected response. Pick an intimidating answer, and she would look furious. Select a fearful or joking reply, and she would be wide-eyed or smiling respectively. The FMV sequences had expressions as appropriate.



Come to think of it, Origins had that in some scenes as well. I found it puzzling that in the Joining, dealing with Cailan's propped up corpse, spotting the Broodmother, and so on, the Warden would express some sort of emotion. Yet in other scenes she was oddly stoic. It was an odd inconsistency; as if the cinema staff could not decide whether to force emotion unto the Warden or leave her as a blank slate.



In short, I think a fully voiced protagonist can have its positives when presenting a story chock full of cut scenes. However, I also think BioWare's approach in Origins was inconsistent and have seen the silent protagonist handled better in other games--including one of BioWare's own making. In my opinion DA2's approach is more of a loss than a gain since it damages my connection to the protagonist a bit. I can live with it, though. I pretty much have to since it is obvious times are a changin'.

[Joy Divison]

ReallyRue wrote...

means some actual facial reactions in the PC, then I'm delighted.
The whole blank face thing was far more annoying to me than a lack of
voice. I do like the voice idea though, because it's odd for your
character to be a mute whilst everyone else is speaking aloud.

^^^^ Well put.

Modifié par Joy Divison, 22 janvier 2011 - 10:58 .

[Night Prowler76]

AmstradHero wrote...

Night Prowler76 wrote...
That being said, at the end of the year, we will see how good of a decision it was for Bioware to radically change DA, I can say without a doubt, people will speak with their wallets, and the SILENT protaganist in Skyrim will be the king of the RPGs this year, I like DAO, but streamlining every possible aspect of the game is a mistake.

Erm, the protagonists of the Elder Scrolls games have very little depth. I have really liked the last two games in the series (despite that it took me half a dozen attempts to get into the series with Morrowind), but their success isn't because of the depth of the protagonist and the roleplaying choices the character has. Unless Skyrim takes the series in a radically new direction, it's not going to compare to DAO, ME1, ME2 or DA2 in that regard. It might be better in some areas, but the depth of the protagonist and the dialogue won't be one of them.

Agreed, the Silent guy in TES games isnt all that interesting, it is what you make of it, but the TES games offer so much more content on every level compared to DA except maybe for character development, which BioWare is good at, although the dailogue in the TES games may be dry, there is lots of it, and some of it is interesting.

I think the problem here is, Bioware, by making the main charater voiced, is taking away some of the players personality out of the game, now I dont mind having Shepards voice in ME, but I dont think it will translate well to the RPG game, when you build a character, you dont always need to have a voice picked for you, honestly, what if someone absolutely hates the voice of the character, do you think they will want to play the game?

There are alot of people who seem ok with the game losing alot of its charm and custimization and choice, and I guess to each their own, myself, I prefer being able to do what I want, when I want and where I want, perhaps that is why I think the TES games are miles ahead of the DA games, the only think I would have changed about DAO is to make it more open ended and free roaming, let me keep playing after I finished the story etc.

[Jzadek72]

Me! I'm looking forward to having a character who actually shows emotions. The only time the warden did was when stealing a kitten, and that was a rapeface to rival Sheploo's.

[upsettingshorts]

In Exile wrote...

I am a rather big backer of PC VO. I believe that it is one of the neccesary cornerstones of reactive gameplay, which I happen to think is the critical element to an RPG.

My general take on the silent PC versus PC VO debate is that it fundamentally comes down to what you believe an RPG is about - whether it is a internal experience (similar to self-reflection) where the player essentially imagines interactions in a particular gameworld, or whether instead it is about a the world actively reacting to the choices and decisions that you make, which are essentially pre-defined and scripted but highly distinct once the choice is made.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 22 janvier 2011 - 11:03 .

[Toirdehach]

Dialogue wheel means less dialogue, so not really.

[wolfman99202]

I find the idea of full VO and a dialogue wheel intriging. I've never played Mass Effect but I've heard it is a good game. I hope this move by Bioware isn't going to bite us back later.

[marshalleck]

Both have their advantages and shortcomings. I can be happy with either.

[drahelvete]

Late Lord Fuj wrote...

In the name of all that is streamlined, next-gen, cinematic, dark, gritty, mature and immersive, Bioware should implement the Spinning QTE before Todd Howards does it, because if anybody had an idea involving the Dialogue wheel, chances are that Todd Howard had it first.

Out with the old, in with the new.

Janjetina, I presume?

[Sabariel]

If DA2 uses the same minuscule unreadable text as ME2 I will be most POed indeed.



However, if the text is big enough for me to actually read then... hooray for the dialogue wheel!!

[Matchy Pointy]

I like it, making Shepard talk in MAss Effect was one of the things that made it so good (for me atleast), so including it here is a big plus from me.

[Guitar-Hero]

I am very excited.. Don't know about Mr. Boulton but i hope he suprises me.. loved him as sir Bryant though..

Also i really felt it was missing from DAO, iu mean imagine giving the speech to the troops at the end before taking Denirim, or you being the one reciting the secret oath of the wardens

I imagine a cross between Colin Farrells speach in Alexander, and Viggos in lotr

[The Bard From Hell]

I'm happy for it. I feels odd to have a non-voiced protagonist in a 3rd person game. I understand that when the game is in 1st person, it's okay for him to don't speak (or in a game that was made with a 1st person mode in mind as the primary), but when you can see your face, hear the entire world around you and imerse in deep, emotional scenes, it jut feels... Off to be mute. But that's just my opinion.

[AnthonyDoucet]

I often heard people complaining that having a voiced character makes them feel disconnected to their character. Personally I think that having a mute character simply disconnect him to the whole story.

Modifié par AnthonyDoucet, 22 janvier 2011 - 11:16 .

[jackkel dragon]

I am happy for a voiced protagonist in DA2. In DAO, every other character spoke, and after having played the Mass Effect games it felt awkward to have otherwise cinematic cutscenes where the protagonist would simply stare off into space, with few exceptions.

While I'm generally for voiced characters in serious story-based and "cinematic" games, I don't dislike a slient protagonist. However, if any characters are voiced I prefer them all voiced, because of the jarring difference in the conversation style. Full voice over with paraphrased options to select gives a more laid-back kind of feel to conversations, making them feel like interactive cutscenes. A text-only conversation requires a lot of reading, which is great but requires more focus from the player to select their desired response to the scene. When I'm sitting back watching a "cinematic" cutscene, it's a big switch to read each line I could choose before sitting back for another cutscene.

TL;DR: I'd rather have characters fully voiced or minimal voice-over, either way is fine for me.

The best examples I can offer off the top of my head:

Voiced: Mass Effect

Unvoiced: Baldur's Gate, Morrowind
(Even these have some voice over, usually to begin the conversation. I generally let them slide because of that.)

Before I get flamed too badly, let me note that one of my favorite games, KOTOR2, has a system similar to DAO and I'm not saying DAO was a bad game. (Let me hide before someone notices I like an Obsidian game.)

[Ms .45]

MyKingdomCold wrote...

I don't mind, but I do wish that the dialogue wheel wasn't so obvious when it came to "good" or"bad" responses.

I found the response selection in DA:O acted as its own spoilers - for instance, at the beginning of the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest it was very obvious that something was wrong and you should keep pushing for information. Which is fine, except it's explicitly giving away what you should be doing, which a simple <3 won't do. 

Very happy about having a responsive protagonist (I'm one of these people who hated my Warden standing around like a stunned mullet while Uldred threatens to trap him in his bondage chamber), but will wait until I hear the voices being used first. I once used the "Violent" female voice for my Warden and was forced to endure an entire game of being abused by Queen Anora. Now I know how Alistair feels. 

[andar91]

After picking up ME2 last week and playing it for the first time, I can say I'm very happy. It isn't so much that I minded the PC being silent, but there are so many benefits to the story and the process of playing the game. It just feels much more organic and natural to have all the characters talking. The benefits of the cinematics (i.e. having Hawke/Shepherd actually move around and have different camera angles) alone are fantastic; we had this in Origins but it was incredibly rare. I'm positive (as they've confirmed this) that we'll have more of this sort of thing in DA2.

[BTCentral]

I am very happy about this - definitely looking forward to it.

[Erode_The_Soul]

I really think the voiced PC is a positive thing for this game. The dialogue wheel, however, I have serious reservations about. It was...not bad, but not really all that great in ME (in my opinion) and I greatly dislike the "Wait, what? I didn't tell you to say that!" moments that the paraphrasing usually causes.



I'm open-minded until I play it of course, but all I have to go on is my experience with the ME wheel, which leaves me a bit worried.

[Jazharah]

I am actually overjoyed about the wheel and PC VO.

It looks to me that DA2 picked up on all the feedback that was given on ME1 and ME2 (icons for intent ftw!) and turned it into that which it was always supposed to be.

The one thing that bored me to death in DA:O (and actually has kept me from replaying it as often as I'd like to) was reading all my possible responses. Sure, those lines make it more 'personalized', but for me, in the end, it's about the intent of what I am saying, not about the actual wording. The emotional paraphrase as they used in ME&2 along with the clarification with icons to clarify how something is meant, followed by a well-spoken voice-over that is integrated into a cinematic is exactly how I like my game.

The only thing I'm crossing my fingers for is the voice work itself. It's going to be hard to beat Jennifer Hale in my book (sry, not a fan or Mr Loo - which is the reason I'm crossing my fingers in part), then again I am looking forward to hearing new talent.

2 cents in the pot, make it work BioWare 

[TMZuk]

Voiced protagonist is a waste of money, a waste of disc-space and exteremely limiting to the number of times I can stand playing a game through. On top of that, I already dislike MaleHawke's voice from what little I have heard.

Furthermore, we are already talking about "MaleHawke", just as we did talk about "MaleShep", rather than "My character", which should make it blatantly obvious how restrictive a fixed character is.

Apparantly there's a large crowd of players who likes to be rail-roaded and guided through a game, where they watch someone speak and act, rather than controlling a character themselves. I am certain this game will suit them fine. For the rest of us... well, I at least will most likely decide to spend my money on something else. Shame, because I did enjoy DA:O. I enjoyed it a ~lot~ more than i enjoyed any of the ME games.

Modifié par TMZuk, 22 janvier 2011 - 11:32 .

[Vit246]

Neutral on the VO, but not happy about the dialogue wheel. It's too limited compared to full-text and you never know exactly what your character's gonna say and what else is gonna be said. Sometimes its misleading.

[andar91]

One thing to note about the dialogue wheel: I do think the tone indicators will help you avoid unintended actions, but one of the reasons I have less of a problem with the paraphrasing, I think, is that I enjoy jrpg's. Generally, you don't have any control over the story in a jrpg and are watching it as if it was a movie (I love movies too). In DA2, we have the option to steer things in a certain direction a lot, but we're only steering, not directly controlling every single little thing Hawke says.



This is something that I do not call a flaw, but it is inherent in this kind of dialogue system. The cons are as stated above; you don't have nearly as much control over what the character says. Even then, knowledge may be a better word since we could never control the responses; they were always predetermined by the writers, and the responses to them were set up as well. The pros are that the game is much more cinematic and, in my opinion, alive.



I can definitely understand why some people don't like this; they probably prefer being able to read the whole line. However, since the responses in all games with choices generally boil down to Good, Bad, and Neutral, and we have tone indicators, I don't think it will be as much of a problem. Foreknowledge is missing, but we only ever had several options to choose from, and no matter how you roleplayed the line in your head, the reactions were always the same.



The single biggest weakness of a voiced protagonist is if the voice acting is good enough for you, and they will NEVER please everyone on that front. I usually get so used to it, however, that it seldom bothers me if a line is off once in a while.

[shinobi602]

TMZuk wrote...


Apparantly there's a large crowd of players who likes to be rail-roaded and guided through a game, where they watch someone speak and act, rather than controlling a character themselves.

You still control your character. You were "guided" on what to say in Origins also, you just read sentences and picked them, as opposed to hearing them being spoke.

I didn't even feel like my character was part of the game or was even participating. He just stood there with blank eyes. Auditory senses play a big part in making a character come alive.