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What plot event did you want that wasn't there?


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#51
Twilight_Princess

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There were a few for me

-I was so annoyed that there wasn't an opportunity for a sole survivor Shepard to mention what happened on akuze . Especially during Jacob's questioning. I sat there with my jaw open when he said" You survived a thresher maw attack that wiped out the rest of your team, do you remember that?" while my Shepard acted like she knew nothing. I think you should have been able to go renegade on his ass if you had an imported sole survivor Shepard that met Toombs and learnt the truth. I was waiting for that kind opportunity to appear the whole game, when TIM insisted he was all about helping human beings, every time Miranda and the rest of the cerberus crew kept saying how great the organization was. I was disappointed when I realized my Shepard would never mention it. I wished I had the option to tell both Jacob and Miranda;

"Yes, I remember. My whole squad got slaughtered....and it was your organization who murdered them. Your people sent them into a trap just to watch them die and when you found a survivor, you kept him alive for years for sick experimentation. So don't you f**kers sit there and pretend I don't know" and then have it  followed by an epic awkward silence that lasts the rest of the journey Posted Image
 
- "Can it wait for a bit..." joking aside, Garrus having barely any dialogue on the Normandy was so disappointing. Not only was there not enough of it but I also felt there was an important conversation missing, the one that should have gave Shepard the chance to REALLY talk to him about the decision he made regarding Sidonis and also about what happened to his team.  If anyone could console Garrus about losing team members  and making mistakes its Shepard, yet it never happens. It could have been the perfect opportunity for Shepard to mention Virmire or the casualties in her personal background and how he/she dealt with it. His personal story just lacked any real closure,  instead of ending on something profound it ended on a story about hooking up with a scout.
 
-  Thane having something to do during the suicide misssion. The other characters were able to play a role in some fashion 
 
First and second fire squad Leaders- Garrus Jacob or Miranda
vent- Tali, legion or kasumi
Sheild- Samara or Jack
Hold the line heavies: Grunt, garrus, zaeed
 
Mordin was needed to further the plot of the game so he gets a pass for not being needed for the suicide mission. So that leaves Thane.  I felt that because you recruit Thane to use his talents there should have been an extra part to the suicide mission for him to utilize them. A stealth type mission perhaps, or even a sniping role. The extra mission could have been one that needed multiple squaddies working together, using their talents to help the other out, sniping/stealth could have been one of the talents needed.

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 23 janvier 2011 - 09:45 .


#52
Omnicrat

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Meuterei wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Meuterei wrote...
In 2, you can't really affect the political structure at all, anywhere.


Legion's loyalty mission: Eliminate a schism among the geth. Eliminate an enemy still taking military action against Citadel Space. 
--- I suppose this one is valid but the game seems to hint that no matter what you do, the overall course of the geth is not likely to change.

Tali's loyalty mission:  No matter what you do, you've altered the future political course of the Migrant Fleet, and thus, the future of the entire quarian race.
--- No matter what you do, the same events are going to happen. You've made my point for me, which is that while Shepard does affect things, YOU the PLAYER do not have a choice in it, like you did in several cases in ME1.

Thane's loyalty mission: all about meddling in a political assassination.
--- Railroaded, you have no choice, and does not cause any serious power shift.

Kasumi's loyalty mission: That greybox had some rather politically-sensitive info stashed on it.  You also kill a major arms dealer and smuggler. 
--- Again, no choice.

Garrus' loyalty mission: you find info on a potential threat to Aria's power.  Not to mention severely mess up several of the local merc bands by taking out their current leadership and a significant number of their run-of-the-mill troops.
--- Again, no choice.

Mordin's loyalty mission: you prevent a highly hostile krogan tribe from acquiring a Genophage cure and lay the groundwork for their elimination/absorption by Urdnot.
--- Again, no choice.

Omega: Ish is also a potential threat to Aria's power.  Up to you whether he becomes rather more or less of one.
--- Again, no choice.

Lair: help make Liara the new Shadow Broker, a position that has become indispensible to the balance of power in Citadel Space.
--- Again, no choice.

Collectors: you killed them.  Now, they can no longer run around the Terminus handing out really good tech to anyone willing to sell them a bunch of slaves.
--- Again, no choice.

Purgatory: You pretty much blew it up. And the whole operation was essentially predicated on extorting various governments.
--- Again, no choice.

Probably missing a few.


See what I mean? You don't get to decide these things - the game does it for you.


... lets look at some of those again...

1)  The game tells you there are either no more heretics (you re-wrote them) or a greatly reduced number of heretics (you blew alot up).  AND, if you skip out on the mission entirely, all geth become heretics.  Your choices here have huge political ramafications.

2)  ...did you not play Tali's loyaly mission?  Yes, your actions will always change the fate of the fleet, but in vastly different ways.  You can dissolve the fleet, encouraging many ships to go to war.  You can dissolve the fleet, encorageing many ships to make peace.  You can get Tali exiled, pushing for peace/war (and most likely having the fleet accept your advice).  You can exonerate tali, pushing for peace/war and making her a likely Admeralty candidate.  You have so much choice here, and each choice has a vastly different effect.

3)  ... you can kill the anti-human polititian.  I would say that is a seriouse power shift.

4)  ... you can choose to wipe the greybox, destroying the politically damaging data, or let her keep it... if the data ever comes out (which it makes sense to have happen in ME3), then this was a huge choice with a huge consequence.

5)  Wrong.  Almost not wrong for the first time, but still wrong.  You don't have to give the data to Aria.  She won't know there was a plan against her, making any survivors who knew about the plan likely to try it once they build their streinghth back up.

6)  Right for the first time.  And thats only because didy forgot to mention the choice to either save the genophager cure research or destroy it.  Curing the genophage whould have HUGE political ramafications.

7)  And now your back to just being wrong.  1) You can choose to do nothing (dont even need to talk to ish)  2) You can choose to bring ish the data and accept your wage.  3) You can choose to talk is out of selling the data because it would probably wined up badly for him.  4) You can choose to give the data to aria's body gaurd who the data is pretaining to.  I say each has pretty sepf-explanitory consequences.

8)  This is the most right you have been so far.  No one makes you do LotSB, however.  If you choose not to choose you still have made a choice.

9)  Right again, but unly because, for some reason, didy for got about the whole big final decision that either gives terrorists lots of tech or is a big FU to said terrorists.

10)  For the first time, and the list time, you are compleatly right.

Your responses to that list lead me to three possible conclusions:  1)  You have never played ME2 and have just read wikis and posts and gained a (greatly flawed) understanding of the game.  2)  You are a troll, or troll-like entity.  3)  You always make the same decisions in all of your playthroughs and then say that you are forced into making those decisions.

#53
omgodzilla

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Illusive man as a gay romance. Please make it happen Bioware.

#54
StarcloudSWG

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The plot event I missed the most:

Shepard dumping all the hard data about the Reapers and the Collectors, gathered during the game, onto the Council in a way that leaves the Council UNABLE to deny the Reaper's existance. 

#55
The Big Nothing

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More Udina. I love to hate that guy.

Modifié par The Big Nothing, 23 janvier 2011 - 10:56 .


#56
Arijharn

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Omnicrat, I have to ask, what makes you think any decisions you make in regards to Tali's loyalty will 'dissolve the fleet.' In fact, I think dissolving the fleet would be disastrous in any way you slice it. It would be practically impossible I think too, since it's their form of government. It'd be like asking humanity to willingly give up the Systems Alliance.

#57
Zulu_DFA

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The crew (not) dying off defending perimiter around the Normandy during the "suicide mission", instead of the crew abduction.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 janvier 2011 - 12:56 .


#58
Zulu_DFA

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Arijharn wrote...

Omnicrat, I have to ask, what makes you think any decisions you make in regards to Tali's loyalty will 'dissolve the fleet.' In fact, I think dissolving the fleet would be disastrous in any way you slice it. It would be practically impossible I think too, since it's their form of government. It'd be like asking humanity to willingly give up the Systems Alliance.


If you show the evidence at the trial, Tali will later say that the Flotilla is "breaking apart".

#59
Arijharn

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Zulu_DFA wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Omnicrat, I have to ask, what makes you think any decisions you make in regards to Tali's loyalty will 'dissolve the fleet.' In fact, I think dissolving the fleet would be disastrous in any way you slice it. It would be practically impossible I think too, since it's their form of government. It'd be like asking humanity to willingly give up the Systems Alliance.


If you show the evidence at the trial, Tali will later say that the Flotilla is "breaking apart".

Really? I guess the can of worms was well and truly opened in that case then. The feeling I have of Xen's polarizing influence on the fleet may seem more likely, but I didn't think it would go as far as literally 'breaking apart.'

#60
Zulu_DFA

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Arijharn wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Omnicrat, I have to ask, what makes you think any decisions you make in regards to Tali's loyalty will 'dissolve the fleet.' In fact, I think dissolving the fleet would be disastrous in any way you slice it. It would be practically impossible I think too, since it's their form of government. It'd be like asking humanity to willingly give up the Systems Alliance.


If you show the evidence at the trial, Tali will later say that the Flotilla is "breaking apart".

Really? I guess the can of worms was well and truly opened in that case then. The feeling I have of Xen's polarizing influence on the fleet may seem more likely, but I didn't think it would go as far as literally 'breaking apart.'


From Kal'Reegar's calling Tali "Ma'am", I've got an impression that the Quarian society is divided into "aristocracy" (Tali, Xen) and "peasantry" (Reegar, vas Quib-Quib). The peasantry's long wish is "Let's the f*ck just settle somewhere, then decide what to do about the Geth". The aristocracy's fear is that "If we let them settle elsewhere, they will never go to war with the Geth again over the Homeworld, and that'd mean we actually lost the war to our own toasters."

Showing the evidence at the trial, I think, means that vas Quib-Quib's "Peace & Resettlement" party will win

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 janvier 2011 - 11:55 .


#61
Arijharn

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Zulu_DFA wrote...
From Kal'Reegar's calling Tali "Ma'am", I've got an impression that the Quarian society is divided into "aristocracy" (Tali, Xen) and "peasantry" (Reegar, vas Quib-Quib). The peasantry's long wish is "Let's the f*ck just settle somewhere, then decide what to do about the Geth". The aristocracy's fear is that "If we let them settle elsewhere, they will never go to war with the Geth again over the Homeworld, and that'd mean we actually lost the war to our own toasters."

Showing the evidence at the trial, I think, means that vas Quib-Quib's "Peace & Resettlement" party will win

I'm not sure about the whole aristocracy angle you're talking about, to me Kal'Reegar just treats Tali as his military superior (which... she was if Haestrom is any indication).

To me, Xen's tinkering with Rael's research (and the fruit it bore) makes a war with the Geth more likely on one hand, but far more likely to cause ideological difference versus the 'right' and 'wrong' mindset of re-enslaving the Geth (heh, one of the many reasons why I keep Overlord around) on the other.

But still, I wouldn't have thought it would split the fleet, more like paralyse it.

Modifié par Arijharn, 23 janvier 2011 - 12:03 .


#62
Big stupid jellyfish

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1. An option to discuss Akuze.

2. An option to let Alliance/Council know about the derelict Reaper.

3. An option to keep the base to self/handle it to Alliance or Citadel Council.

Modifié par Big stupid jellyfish, 23 janvier 2011 - 12:05 .


#63
Zulu_DFA

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Arijharn wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...
From Kal'Reegar's calling Tali "Ma'am", I've got an impression that the Quarian society is divided into "aristocracy" (Tali, Xen) and "peasantry" (Reegar, vas Quib-Quib). The peasantry's long wish is "Let's the f*ck just settle somewhere, then decide what to do about the Geth". The aristocracy's fear is that "If we let them settle elsewhere, they will never go to war with the Geth again over the Homeworld, and that'd mean we actually lost the war to our own toasters."

Showing the evidence at the trial, I think, means that vas Quib-Quib's "Peace & Resettlement" party will win

I'm not sure about the whole aristocracy angle you're talking about, to me Kal'Reegar just treats Tali as his military superior (which... she was if Haestrom is any indication).

To me, Xen's tinkering with Rael's research (and the fruit it bore) makes a war with the Geth more likely on one hand, but far more likely to cause ideological difference versus the 'right' and 'wrong' mindset of re-enslaving the Geth (heh, one of the many reasons why I keep Overlord around) on the other.

But still, I wouldn't have thought it would split the fleet, more like paralyse it.


On Haestrom, Kal'Reegar is the CO, Tali is the mission specialist. By our modern human standards simple marines should just look down on such people, while officers should treat them like "OK, you're in charge, but remember that you're the reason for  m a h   b o i z  to get wasted, so don't screw around, or else... do you get me?"

Anyway, the "ma'am" dialogue occurs later, on the Rayya, so there's no reason for Kal'Reegar to insist on treating a younger female as "ma'am", other than to maintain a socially imposed custom.

Maybe it's just a fan service, to please the talimancers, many of whom think of of Tali as "my space princess", which in turn may root back to Shepard's rather ignorant remark "Are you some kind of royalty?" from ME1. But whatever the case, it's been set in stone now, so the Quarian society is seriously messed up, thanks to the talimancers.

As for Xen's tinkering with Rael's research, it takes place in any eventuality, and I suppose, she is cerberus-y-minded enough to keep her own tinkering descreet even if the research has been revealed. But with the Migrant Fleet been split, her resources to successfully finish the tinkering and attempt deploying the results would be far more restrained.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 23 janvier 2011 - 12:53 .


#64
CoolCR

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I have a space ship with huge guns and i only shoot them once why do they need to be calibrated if we never fire them. I mean how much of a psycho is shepard that I must kill everything in person there is no just blow it up from the ship.



Should give at least someone the option to surrender.



There should be more panic amongst the Merc when the dead spector/colossal body count guy turns up to there bases this only Merc who ever gets what going to happen next is some salarian in Miranda loyalty mission.



You should be able to pick a side not just get stuck with TIM for the whole game.


#65
Ahriman

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Marta Rio wrote...

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the ending needed a third choice, i.e. keep the base, but don't give it to TIM. Heck, the missing Cerberus operative assignment had three choices - give the data to Cerberus, the Alliance, or keep it for yourself - why couldn't the most important decision in the game have three as well?


Yeah, that was disappointment. Perhaps Bioware just had to do it because of plot reasons. It would cause too many consequences to deal with.

I would like to see option to disconnect after words "Ah yes 'Reapers'...". Interruption of interruption FTW.

Cipher. Why Shepard doesn't use it? Collector ship, Collector base... No, every time EDI jumps and does all stuff(BTW How it's even possible to hack alien technology which you see first time?).

Normal talk with Harby or with Terminator at least.

#66
didymos1120

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Wizz wrote...

Cipher. Why Shepard doesn't use it? Collector ship, Collector base... No, every time EDI jumps and does all stuff(BTW How it's even possible to hack alien technology which you see first time?).


Well, that's obviously because the Collectors don't use the prothean language, which  makes sense given that they're not exactly protheans anymore.  As for EDI: Reaper tech was used in her construction.  And, if you think about it, the Collectors are themselves Reaper tech, so stands to reason their gear is also Reaper tech.

#67
EternalPink

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CanadAvenger wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

CanadAvenger wrote...
 I'm confused, as I thought that data would be of some importance in ME2 as that whole quest line was rather important in ME1.
 


Actually, it wasn't.  You could skip in entirely and ME2 would play out in nigh-identical fashion.  For that matter, it wasn't important to ME1 at all.  Nothing in the main plot depended on it in any way. 


Let me rephrase that to what I meant to say: That questline (IMO) had high implications for ME2.
I've never just started an ME2 game from scratch or imported a Shepard that DIDN'T do that mission. I was under the impression that even if Kahoku still died, you wouldn't know anything of it/who did it.

Therefore if you did do that questline, reveal Cerberus and expose them, and acquire this data... It should have had an at least somewhat noticeable effect in ME2. Or at least a mention. As it stands now, me giving the Cerberus data to the SB sort of resulted in a dead end. Unless of course, the Cerberus dossier was the result, but I can't confirm that.


Other than toon's dont think there was any real effect, it would have been so cool if you could have added it to the info you get in ME2 which results in missions or how cerebus is percieved.

I did a ME1 playthrough where i killed anyone who i could that knew and helped cerebus brush what they'd been doing under the carpet with the options available and would have been nice if due to that cerebus where seen as non-terrioist by the council and if you did it the other they were seen as more of a threat.

So one way would result in easier return to spectre hood and the other maybe C-Sec/alliance officers coming after ya.

#68
Kishero

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One thing I missed, in Tali's loyalty mission was this.



My ship, the Normandy, possibly the most powerful ship between here and the nearest mass relay, is in weapons range of the flotilla. The Only Quarian I particularly like is Tali, and my ship has been refitted to out fight a collector hull.



There should be, some level of option to obliquely connect these dots, in the context of flotilla security, tali's unhappiness, and big picture consequences of legal outcomes. Even if its only as renegade.

#69
Ahriman

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didymos1120 wrote...

Well, that's obviously because the Collectors don't use the prothean language, which  makes sense given that they're not exactly protheans anymore.


Why do you think so? Actually all their mechanisms  look like prothean technology, just a bit dirty beause nobody cares.

As for EDI: Reaper tech was used in her construction.  And, if you think about it, the Collectors are themselves Reaper tech, so stands to reason their gear is also Reaper tech.


Some genetic modifications and weak implants(Saren's implants were real reaper technology), not so many. Origin of other collector technology is unknown because we haven't saw protheam space ships to compare.

#70
Dean_the_Young

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In regards to 'what I wanted', I suppose most of them should be considered in the context of ME1 carryovers.

First and foremost, I really wanted the side-mission carryover references to work: the hidden files show they were intended to, but it was sad that they didn't.

In general, I wanted more 'enivronmental consequences', good and bad, for both sides.



I wanted, was expecting, the Batarian Rebellions referred to by Balak to matter. We get a few side missions, but nothing else. Balak being let go should have meant something: another attack here, a minor atrocity there, nothing necessarily on the scale of Terra Nova, but he raised a plot point and it should have carried over here.


In the carry-over from Feros, I was actually hoping for the researcher's daughter, Elizabeth, to make an appearance. She would have been a good counterpoint to Shiala, and for similar reasons ('I made a mistake to them, I should fix it'), and even could also apply to some hero-admiration towards Shepard.


From Noveria, seeing Lorik Quin again would have been great: that Turian was the best Turian npc in the game.

More relevantly, however, some sort of 'thank you for saving us from the Rachni' stand-in for the Rachni ambassador would have worked well as a balance. Maybe a Noveria suit (Lorik himself?) who passes on the Executive Board's gratitude for Shepard resolving the matter in a good way, and with a promise of future reciprocacity and support in the future as a quid-pro-quo. Or, if this counters the Paragon asset of having the Rachni armies later, and Noveria really couldn't/shouldn't provide a similar role, the Noveria executives could immediately give this Shepard a significant number of credits/resources/'developmental tech upgrades' immediately now, and promise/imply future offerings in the future. That would balance superior strategic gains later with smaller tactical gains now.



Moving on to characters, I had hoped/expected to meet the Virmire Sacrifice's important relation at some point, possibly the Citadel. Either Sarah Williams, Ashley's sister, or Rhana, Kaiden's old flame. Possibly there to take part in/watch a memorial ceremony of some sort for the Virmire dier, they could be conflicted or even confrontational towards Shepard for letting the Virmire Dier, well, die. You could, would, talk them down soon enough, but it would be another sort of reminder about how your choices in ME1 shaped things for other people, not just yourself, and possibly in a gut-shot way. Eg, Sarah Williams might demand to know if you let Ashley die because of who her Grandfather was, and reveal she's going to join the Alliance like her sister did. Rhana... might have a more serious discussion on Kaiden's passion versus composure, and could be on her way to being an instructor at the Ascension Project.


I've always suspected/expected the Virmire Survivor to become a Spectre. Expected Garrus to become a Spectre as well, like he said he was thinking about: his Recruitment Mission could have been reframed as 'Spectre operation gone bad' or somesuch, or maybe he was on a mission, and went rogue to help the people.

Point is, him quitting the Spectres attempt caught me by surprise.



I always wanted to hear more about that Alliance lieutenant you save from being overrun by Rachni. That was a surprisingly unique and fun extra mission back in ME1.

Similarly, I sort of hoped that if you did/didn't do the Wrex's Armor sidequest, you could get a news report about Krogan artifacts or something.






Final, big thing: I think a lot of humans (or at least Alliance/Cerberus types) should have been angry at Shepard for sacrificing so many human lives and strength to save the Council, just as many aliens (but not all) dislike the Humans in the opposite scenario. Yes, Humanity got it's Council Seat, but the game continually portrays the Council as obstructing or refusing to help the Alliance in it's concerns, same as before, while the Alliance lost such strength after saving the Council (really should have done far more than eight cruisers) that it still can't protect itself.

A lot of humans should have been angry: 'Thanks, Shepard, you saving the Council that never did anything for us when we needed help gave us a pretty Title that doesn't change that they still don't do anything for us, while you got so many good humans killed that the Alliance can't even help itself now!'

And, to inverse the dichtomy even more, Shepard's reception by Cerberus overall could have been far more chilly, with only the Illusive Man really suporting Shepard's unique role as an asset to Humanity. Whereas a 'concentrate on Sovereign' Shepard is warmly received as 'willing to do whatever it takes' and 'remembering his species' and gets the overall warm welcome, a 'Save the Council' Shepard is maligned as taking needless galactic risks, as a xenophile (if romanced Liara)/species traitor, and the whole of the Cerberus is no happier working with Shepard than Shepard may be working with Cerberus. The only person truly supportive of Shepard is The Illusive Man himself, while everyone else (besides Jacob) is working on/with/for Shepard because the Illusive Man told them to.

(And, as a added layer of effect: while the Cerberus personnel might be professional and courteous to Shepard's face when he's talking to them, the full extent of the tone would be conveyed in the gossip you can 'overhear'.)



I think it would have posed a good Paragon/Renegade balance in the galactic structure overall. You can be on good terms with the galaxy as a whole, but not be appreciated or liked by the human establishment. Or you can have the inverse, loved/heralded by your species, but distrusted and disliked by the Council Races. A far better balance than 'loved by Humanity alone or loved by everyone.'

#71
Meuterei

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Omnicrat wrote...

Meuterei wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Meuterei wrote...
In 2, you can't really affect the political structure at all, anywhere.


Legion's loyalty mission: Eliminate a schism among the geth. Eliminate an enemy still taking military action against Citadel Space. 
--- I suppose this one is valid but the game seems to hint that no matter what you do, the overall course of the geth is not likely to change.

Tali's loyalty mission:  No matter what you do, you've altered the future political course of the Migrant Fleet, and thus, the future of the entire quarian race.
--- No matter what you do, the same events are going to happen. You've made my point for me, which is that while Shepard does affect things, YOU the PLAYER do not have a choice in it, like you did in several cases in ME1.

Thane's loyalty mission: all about meddling in a political assassination.
--- Railroaded, you have no choice, and does not cause any serious power shift.

Kasumi's loyalty mission: That greybox had some rather politically-sensitive info stashed on it.  You also kill a major arms dealer and smuggler. 
--- Again, no choice.

Garrus' loyalty mission: you find info on a potential threat to Aria's power.  Not to mention severely mess up several of the local merc bands by taking out their current leadership and a significant number of their run-of-the-mill troops.
--- Again, no choice.

Mordin's loyalty mission: you prevent a highly hostile krogan tribe from acquiring a Genophage cure and lay the groundwork for their elimination/absorption by Urdnot.
--- Again, no choice.

Omega: Ish is also a potential threat to Aria's power.  Up to you whether he becomes rather more or less of one.
--- Again, no choice.

Lair: help make Liara the new Shadow Broker, a position that has become indispensible to the balance of power in Citadel Space.
--- Again, no choice.

Collectors: you killed them.  Now, they can no longer run around the Terminus handing out really good tech to anyone willing to sell them a bunch of slaves.
--- Again, no choice.

Purgatory: You pretty much blew it up. And the whole operation was essentially predicated on extorting various governments.
--- Again, no choice.

Probably missing a few.


See what I mean? You don't get to decide these things - the game does it for you.


... lets look at some of those again...

1)  The game tells you there are either no more heretics (you re-wrote them) or a greatly reduced number of heretics (you blew alot up).  AND, if you skip out on the mission entirely, all geth become heretics.  Your choices here have huge political ramafications.

2)  ...did you not play Tali's loyaly mission?  Yes, your actions will always change the fate of the fleet, but in vastly different ways.  You can dissolve the fleet, encouraging many ships to go to war.  You can dissolve the fleet, encorageing many ships to make peace.  You can get Tali exiled, pushing for peace/war (and most likely having the fleet accept your advice).  You can exonerate tali, pushing for peace/war and making her a likely Admeralty candidate.  You have so much choice here, and each choice has a vastly different effect.

3)  ... you can kill the anti-human polititian.  I would say that is a seriouse power shift.

4)  ... you can choose to wipe the greybox, destroying the politically damaging data, or let her keep it... if the data ever comes out (which it makes sense to have happen in ME3), then this was a huge choice with a huge consequence.

5)  Wrong.  Almost not wrong for the first time, but still wrong.  You don't have to give the data to Aria.  She won't know there was a plan against her, making any survivors who knew about the plan likely to try it once they build their streinghth back up.

6)  Right for the first time.  And thats only because didy forgot to mention the choice to either save the genophager cure research or destroy it.  Curing the genophage whould have HUGE political ramafications.

7)  And now your back to just being wrong.  1) You can choose to do nothing (dont even need to talk to ish)  2) You can choose to bring ish the data and accept your wage.  3) You can choose to talk is out of selling the data because it would probably wined up badly for him.  4) You can choose to give the data to aria's body gaurd who the data is pretaining to.  I say each has pretty sepf-explanitory consequences.

8)  This is the most right you have been so far.  No one makes you do LotSB, however.  If you choose not to choose you still have made a choice.

9)  Right again, but unly because, for some reason, didy for got about the whole big final decision that either gives terrorists lots of tech or is a big FU to said terrorists.

10)  For the first time, and the list time, you are compleatly right.

Your responses to that list lead me to three possible conclusions:  1)  You have never played ME2 and have just read wikis and posts and gained a (greatly flawed) understanding of the game.  2)  You are a troll, or troll-like entity.  3)  You always make the same decisions in all of your playthroughs and then say that you are forced into making those decisions.

I've played the game seven times, and made several different choices in all of these along the way. It's odd that you cite the loyalty missions in particular, when they're the biggest evidence of the fact that you really have no control over anything:

Legion's loyalty mission alters the number of Geth heretics, yes. That's probably the ONLY significant thing, and I should have pointed that out. The rest, however:

In Tali's loyalty mission, it is obvious that the Admiralty Board is already split and regardless of your actions it remains split. You can throw in your two cents but regardless of what you do, one admiral wants to use them as toys, one wants to kill them all and one wants to leave the homeworld to them. Nothing changes that. YOU do not "dissolve the fleet". It was already happening and Tali's trial was a political skirmish between admirals with her just being used as a lynchpin.

Kolyat's target in Thane's loyalty mission is not as major a player as you seem to think he is, and there is no overall significace in whether he lives or dies.

Ish may or may not have been a legitimately serious threat to Aria, and we are never informed of this except that he dies if you give the package to Anto. It's a very minor sidequest.

The greybox in Kasumi's mission is REALLY reaching, especially since you never actually see any kind of results.

#72
Meuterei

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Dean_the_Young wrote...
Final, big thing: I think a lot of humans (or at least Alliance/Cerberus types) should have been angry at Shepard for sacrificing so many human lives and strength to save the Council, just as many aliens (but not all) dislike the Humans in the opposite scenario. Yes, Humanity got it's Council Seat, but the game continually portrays the Council as obstructing or refusing to help the Alliance in it's concerns, same as before, while the Alliance lost such strength after saving the Council (really should have done far more than eight cruisers) that it still can't protect itself.

You're totally right about this, and I pointed it out a while back as well:

Your choice at the end of ME1 is to either

1. Save a TON of human lives at the cost of a council ship, which is basically just 3 "important" people and their attendants,

2. Save that ship at the cost of a TON of human lives.

I don't see how it's a "renegade" option to save the few at the cost of the many, just because they're on the Council. A new council can be appointed! This was handled pretty poorly. It's not like they couldn't just put up the next Salarian/Asari/Turian in line and make them the new Council.

You're "rewarded" for throwing away thousands of lives to save three people, and that's COMPLETELY backwards to me.

#73
Dean_the_Young

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Meuterei wrote...


In Tali's loyalty mission, it is obvious that the Admiralty Board is already split and regardless of your actions it remains split. You can throw in your two cents but regardless of what you do, one admiral wants to use them as toys, one wants to kill them all and one wants to leave the homeworld to them. Nothing changes that. YOU do not "dissolve the fleet". It was already happening and Tali's trial was a political skirmish between admirals with her just being used as a lynchpin.

Shepard's actions have a direct effect on the outcome on the future of the Migrant Fleet. That the context that the change could happen before Shepard is the same as in every other case in which Shepard can make a decision: someone else set up a political context before he arrived.

Kolyat's target in Thane's loyalty mission is not as major a player as you seem to think he is, and there is no overall significace in whether he lives or dies.

Citation needed.

Seriously: a vocal anti-human representative on the Citadel, especially a Human-dominated Council context, is pretty important to the surrounding story of Mass Effect. It'd be like if a staunch communist got elected DC Mayor in the middle of the Cold War.


Simply because it might not change the gameplay doesn't mean it can't change the story: there was no gameplay change if you killed Feros or not, but it certainly affected the story and the in-universe feel. Same with killing the Council.

Ish may or may not have been a legitimately serious threat to Aria, and we are never informed of this except that he dies if you give the package to Anto. It's a very minor sidequest.

Which in no way means that it can't have reprecussions to the tone (if not gameplay) of the Mass Effect story down the road.

The greybox in Kasumi's mission is REALLY reaching, especially since you never actually see any kind of results.

It's outright stated to be something that could shatter the political status quo. That's not reaching, that's what the game tells us. We don't know how, or why, but that's irrelevant to what it can do.

#74
BurnedToast

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Meuterei wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Final, big thing: I think a lot of humans (or at least Alliance/Cerberus types) should have been angry at Shepard for sacrificing so many human lives and strength to save the Council, just as many aliens (but not all) dislike the Humans in the opposite scenario. Yes, Humanity got it's Council Seat, but the game continually portrays the Council as obstructing or refusing to help the Alliance in it's concerns, same as before, while the Alliance lost such strength after saving the Council (really should have done far more than eight cruisers) that it still can't protect itself.

You're totally right about this, and I pointed it out a while back as well:

Your choice at the end of ME1 is to either

1. Save a TON of human lives at the cost of a council ship, which is basically just 3 "important" people and their attendants,

2. Save that ship at the cost of a TON of human lives.

I don't see how it's a "renegade" option to save the few at the cost of the many, just because they're on the Council. A new council can be appointed! This was handled pretty poorly. It's not like they couldn't just put up the next Salarian/Asari/Turian in line and make them the new Council.

You're "rewarded" for throwing away thousands of lives to save three people, and that's COMPLETELY backwards to me.


First, the council is the ruling body of most of the galaxy. Think about it in the context of today - how many soldiers do you think would give their lives to save the president if needed? After all, a new president can be appointed.

Second, it's not just the council - the destiny ascension has 10,000 crew members. You almost certainly saved more lives overall then you sacrificed (assuming human ships have about the same crew compliment as turian ships), it's just most of the lives saved were alien and most of the ones sacrificed were human (which is why it's considered humanity making a great sacrifice for the galaxy).

It's a renegade choice because you are putting human lives ahead of alien lives.

#75
volus4life

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I wanted a chance to board the quarian ship Quib Quib. I want to see how truly crappy it is.