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[ObserverStatus]

* note please don't spam this thread with "this thread has already been done" messages. this isn't just an "I'm throwing my batarian squad mate out the airlock" thread, and it has some new ideas.

I have noticed that a lot of people on this website really don't seem to like batarians.   Even when someone suggests having a moderate Batarian on Shepard's crew, there are calls for it to be thrown out the airlock, and a lot of people here don't even seem to like the idea of temporarily siding with them against the reapers. They are more sophisticated than other universally hated beings such as darkspawn.  Hating the darkspawn, after all, is a no-brainer as they just seem to be ugly monsters with slits for pupils which want to destroy Thedas for no apparent reason.  The batarians, on the other hand seem more like people who always seem to be in some sort of a disagreement with the rest of the galaxy.  I have made some observations about the batarians, regarding what inspired Bioware to make them like they are.

1.  The Batarians and the Council races have irreparably different views on "human rights."

I'm not sure where this paragraph originally came from, but I found it on the Batarian Mass Effect wiki page.

"Slavery is an integral part of the batarian caste system, despite being
illegal according to Council law, and it is currently unknown how the
batarians maintained standing on the Citadel for so long with slavery
still actively practiced. The custom is so deeply ingrained in batarian
culture that batarians consider the Council's anti-slavery standing to
be prejudicial.
Rogue batarian slave rings are feared throughout the galaxy, especially
among colonists.
"

When I first heard a Batarian saying something like this over the radio on Omega, I did not understand why they made the Batarians like this.  Making an alien race that gets self righteous about slavery  seems like a sure way to make them unlikeable.  Then, I realized that similar disputes exist today. The Chinese government, for example, often insists that democracy and freedom of speech are western values, not universal human rights.

2. Batarians are generally perceived as terrorists

Zaeed's quote 'Cheaper labor,' he said. 'Goddamn terrorists,' I said. 
This quote seems to reflect the views of many citizens of the Alliance, and many gamers on this forum.  This view is popular due to the Batarian government's tendency to attack the Alliance through proxies and generally promote discord outside their own state.  I don't know if Balak's group is connected to the Hegemony, but I wouldn't be surprised.  However, Shepard never visits a Batarian colony in either game and the player doesn't really know what Batarian civilians are like.  I hope I'm not being too obvious by saying this, but the claims that all Batarians are terrorists seem similar to claims that all Muslims are terrorists.  At one point Balak asks Shepard "who's the real terrorist here?" Suggesting that Batarians have the same word for "terrorist" and "bad guy" and the translator glitched.  Either that, or this line may have been inspired by the claims often made by Hamas that the Israelis are terrorists.

3. Batarians blame the Alliance for their economic troubles.

According to the codex "The batarians blame humanity for their troubles and claim they were
forced to fend for themselves, despite the fact that their exile is
largely self-imposed.
"  Many Batarians feel that they have been wronged, because they feel entitled to the colonies and resources seized by the Alliance in the Skyllian Verge.  The belief that the Alliance is richer and more prosperous than the Batarian Hegemony reminded me of the claims by the heads of third world states at the Copenhagen climate talks that western nations are only rich because they polluted the environment at the rest of the world's expense.

4. The Batarian Hegemony is a scary dictatorship.

The fact that the Batarians have a totalitarian government, armed to the tooth with weapons of mass destruction has not made them popular either.  Their status as a heavily armed rogue state calls to mind North Korea, while their development of an orbital mirror system which they insist is for peaceful purposes, is an obvious reference to Iran's nuclear enrichment program.

My conclusion is that Bioware made you hate Batarians by exploiting negative feelings you already had about real people, by combining the traits of many foreign nations which make us (western gamers) most uncomfortable.  That is how they created the most unlikeable alien race in the game.  I have come to believe that the Batarians are parody of the West's perception of the outside world.  Thank you for reading, and try not to make the debate more political than it already is so this thread doesn't get shut down.

[ZachForrest]

A thoughtful, interesting post. I think a lot of the Batarian Hatin' is a bit tongue-in-cheek mind. A whole race can't be written off as evil.

[James2912]

It can if its fictional! the Orcs of LOTR anyone?

[ObserverStatus]

James2912 wrote...

It can if its fictional! the Orcs of LOTR anyone?

My point is that batarians are more complex than Orcs.

[Sparrow44]

In a nutshell,

Play BDtS from ME1, all the batarians on Omega and the 'Javelin Missiles' assignment and you'll see that from all the ones we meet they're bitter and disrespectful. Haven't found anything to like about them personally.

[ZachForrest]

yeaah but weren't ors corrupted by some god in the silmarrilion...or something. Can't remember.



ME is marginally (marginally) more base in reality

[GodWood]

Good read.

ZachForrest wrote...
A thoughtful, interesting post. I think a lot of the Batarian Hatin' is a bit tongue-in-cheek mind. A whole race can't be written off as evil.

I originally thought this as well [and some probably do] but the more I read the responses on these forums I do think it's pretty accurate to say that most have a complete an utter genuine hate for the entire species and have no desire to see them expanded on or redeemed in any way.

[Suron]

ZachForrest wrote...

yeaah but weren't ors corrupted by some god in the silmarrilion...or something. Can't remember.

ME is marginally (marginally) more base in reality

orcs are corrupted Elves

ever follow EverQuest lore? say what you will about the game but at least EQ1 had probably my favorite "world" of any MMO out there...but anyway if you did another example is basically what Innoruuk did to the elves to make Dark Elves is the same thing Sauron did to elves to make them Orc's in LotR

Modifié par Suron, 23 janvier 2011 - 02:56 .

[ZachForrest]

GodWood wrote...

Good read.

ZachForrest wrote...
A thoughtful, interesting post. I think a lot of the Batarian Hatin' is a bit tongue-in-cheek mind. A whole race can't be written off as evil.

I originally thought this as well [and some probably do] but the more I read the responses on these forums I do think it's pretty accurate to say that most have a complete an utter genuine hate for the entire species and have no desire to see them expanded on or redeemed in any way.

Hahaha 'utter genuine hate'. I've not read too many threads about the Batarians, but i can totally picture the comments. Maybe i'm giving the forum-goers too much credit...

[Nightwriter]

Sparroww wrote...

In a nutshell,
Play BDtS from ME1, all the batarians on Omega and the 'Javelin Missiles' assignment and you'll see that from all the ones we meet they're bitter and disrespectful. Haven't found anything to like about them personally.

You're free to say that about the individuals you encounter, but I hesitate to use those individuals to make generalizations about all batarians.

I agree with bo that we shouldn't be too quick to judge batarians we've never met before.

[ZachForrest]

Nightwriter wrote...

Sparroww wrote...

In a nutshell,
Play BDtS from ME1, all the batarians on Omega and the 'Javelin Missiles' assignment and you'll see that from all the ones we meet they're bitter and disrespectful. Haven't found anything to like about them personally.

You're free to say that about the individuals you encounter, but I hesitate to use those individuals to make generalizations about all batarians.

I agree with bo that we shouldn't be too quick to judge batarians we've never met before.

we've bumped into some alright Batarians as well. The guys shaking down Mordin's mate on Omega, and some guys on BDtS weren't too bad either. I let them go in any case

[Sajuro]

ZachForrest wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Good read.

ZachForrest wrote...
A thoughtful, interesting post. I think a lot of the Batarian Hatin' is a bit tongue-in-cheek mind. A whole race can't be written off as evil.

I originally thought this as well [and some probably do] but the more I read the responses on these forums I do think it's pretty accurate to say that most have a complete an utter genuine hate for the entire species and have no desire to see them expanded on or redeemed in any way.

Hahaha 'utter genuine hate'. I've not read too many threads about the Batarians, but i can totally picture the comments. Maybe i'm giving the forum-goers too much credit...

I wouldn't put it past people on the forums to genuinly hate Batarians
I would like to see at least a Batarian colony where they have the same idea of humans as humans have of batarians (they're all terrorists, be afraid!)

[Sparrow44]

ZachForrest wrote...

we've bumped into some alright Batarians as well. The guys shaking down Mordin's mate on Omega, and some guys on BDtS weren't too bad either. I let them go in any case

In those two cases I'd say it shows some of them off as cowardly as when faced with a threat they'll back off if they're pushed. And my original post was based only on the one's we have met, and if in ME3 we see more of the batarians then it'd give a chance for me to change my mind about them.

Like the OP says, it does feel like they're portrayed to be an enemy most humans would dislike and therefore it's actually worked on some people, including myself.

[didymos1120]

Garrus' tech expert on Omega was a batarian. Guy who sold them out? A turian. Just sayin'.

[AntiChri5]

As we post, the Batarian military is in a stand off with the Alliance.

At any moment our long held animosity could turn into full blown war.

We aren't going to be holding hands with them and skipping through a meadow any time soon.

[didymos1120]

Sparroww wrote...

In those two cases I'd say it shows some of them off as cowardly as when faced with a threat they'll back off if they're pushed.

Then you failed to listen to all the dialogue in either case, or you're just insisting on this "cowardly" interpretation despite it not fitting with their actual behavior. 

With Mordin's assistant, you can point out that the accusation makes no sense.  They'll think for a second and agree, then ask for safe passage if they release Daniel.  Now, if you don't persuade them, they very definitely do NOT back down from your threat. 

In BDtS, Charn opens straight off with a "Hey, let's talk".  Again, you can reason with him, and it's that that makes him reconsider and hand you the access key.  But he makes it clear he will fight you if you insist, and if you just start shooting, they don't suddenly run off and hide.  They shoot back.

[didymos1120]

AntiChri5 wrote...

As we post, the Batarian military is in a stand off with the Alliance.

CDN already updated in some parts of the world.  The Alliance backed off and left batarian space, and the Hegemony has let it drop.

[James2912]

List of Species I'm most racist against:

Batarians (I figured my war hero shepard would)

Vorcha (are they even likable?

Reapers (they are irredeemable if in ME3 they are redeemed my Shep is still going to destroy them)



Honorable mention: Turians, Because of the First Contact war and the Turian Councillor. My Shep likes Garus though so maybe he'll change his views...

[James2912]

The Alliance backed off what a bunch of wimps when Cerberus is in charge that ain't gonna happen!

[AntiChri5]

I don't see why you can talk to Charn.

Charn: "I didn't want to try to wipe out this human colony with billions of innocen people! I just wanted to kill and enslave a few humans!"

Shepard: "More then enough for me"

~blam~

[Omnicrat]

AntiChri5 wrote...

As we post, the Batarian military is in a stand off with the Alliance.
At any moment our long held animosity could turn into full blown war.
We aren't going to be holding hands with them and skipping through a meadow any time soon.

off topic, have to ask; Any one else think this might be setting up the next bridge DLC?

[Sparrow44]

Foolish would be more suitable, as you pointed out didymos they'll act first and think later especially with humans and in those cases it ends up biting them in the ass whether or not you let them go or not.

Plus those examples show that batarians will strike at civilians to get a reaction. This is what happens to Mindoir and almost happens to Terranova.

[Nightwriter]

James2912 wrote...

The Alliance backed off what a bunch of wimps when Cerberus is in charge that ain't gonna happen!

So does the Cerberus recruitment poster say, "Join us or you're a p*ssy"?

And if so, why do I want a frat house ruling the galaxy?

[Bogsnot1]

Each species in Mass Effect have a distinct role;

Krogan: Tanks. Combat machines, nothing more.

Turians: They are a mirror to humanity, with facial marking and giblets on their chin.

Quarians: Space elves

Volus: Space Gnomes

Batarians: To bring a smile to your face as you crush their windpipe with your boot.

[Omnicrat]

didymos1120 wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

As we post, the Batarian military is in a stand off with the Alliance.

CDN already updated in some parts of the world.  The Alliance backed off and left batarian space, and the Hegemony has let it drop.

Aw...

That would have been some good DLC right there...