208 réponses à ce sujet

[GodWood]

DPSSOC wrote...
I ask you to point out 5.  I can think of 3 "decent" Batarians.  However I've always judged groups based on the representatives I encounter.  The majority of Albertans I've met are x so Albertans are x, and so on.  The vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Batarians we encounter are scum who deserve to die; therefore Batarians are scum who deserve to die.  A simple system but it hasn't failed me so far.

That's some retarded logic man.

[Super ._. Shepard]

not every single batarian is bad

[didymos1120]

DPSSOC wrote...

The vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Batarians we encounter are scum who deserve to die;

That vast, vast, vast, vast majority of batarians we encounter comprise a tiny, tiny, tiny, tiny minority of the batarian species.

therefore Batarians are scum who deserve to die. A simple system but it hasn't failed me so far.

You fail statistics forever.

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 janvier 2011 - 07:08 .

[Undertone]

DPSSOC wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

There are some decent batarians just like there are some decent humans, Asari, Volus, Elcor, Turian, Krogan, Hanar, and so on. Not every one is evil and irredeemable in the Batarians.

I ask you to point out 5.  I can think of 3 "decent" Batarians.  However I've always judged groups based on the representatives I encounter.  The majority of Albertans I've met are x so Albertans are x, and so on.  The vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Batarians we encounter are scum who deserve to die; therefore Batarians are scum who deserve to die.  A simple system but it hasn't failed me so far.

You must be the epitome of close-mindnessness then. The sample of batarians we meet is very scarce and all of them are not representatives of the Hegemony. It is true that out of that sample the grand majority are scum, evil or unrealiable. That sample however is very small and insignificant.

It's like saying that the Koprulu humans are the same as the UED humans and that the dark templar are the same as the Khalai protoss. (StarCraft) Or that Americans and Canadians are the same.

Modifié par Undertone, 24 janvier 2011 - 08:42 .

[Last Vizard]

didymos1120 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
My point is that the Batarian race did not have a point in their history where they stood up for whats right and fought for the rights of those who had none.

Something you have absolutely no way of knowing, given that we have hardly any information on their history.  For all we know, such things did happen and either failed, or were reversed by subsequent events.

"Yes, Batarians are the poor victims of citadel society and the media... personally i blame the schools", says the human while defending his family and coloney from Batarian slavers ..... or the Human looking into the night sky just to see two missiles arc through it.... or the Human watching a mining asteroid being propelled toward the capital on a vid screen.... they wouldn't harm innocents at all, which means my assumption that their minds are filled with propaganda and hate towards Humans and that the Batarian speaker on Omega does represent all Batarians is incorrect.

[Spornicus]

When even Zaeed doesn't want them around as muscle because they're "goddamn terrorists," I think Batarians' history proves why they're so hated.

[Last Vizard]

Undertone wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

There are some decent batarians just like there are some decent humans, Asari, Volus, Elcor, Turian, Krogan, Hanar, and so on. Not every one is evil and irredeemable in the Batarians.

I ask you to point out 5.  I can think of 3 "decent" Batarians.  However I've always judged groups based on the representatives I encounter.  The majority of Albertans I've met are x so Albertans are x, and so on.  The vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Batarians we encounter are scum who deserve to die; therefore Batarians are scum who deserve to die.  A simple system but it hasn't failed me so far.

You must be the epitome of close-mindnessness then. The sample of batarians we meet is very scarce and all of them are not representatives of the Hegemony. It is true that out of that sample the grand majority are scum, evil or unrealiable. That sample however is very small and insignificant.

It's like saying that the Koprulu humans are the same as the UED humans and that the dark templar are the same as the Khalai protoss. (StarCraft) Or that Americans and Canadians are the same.

Isn't the Hegemony the dictatorship the only government the Batarians have? Doesn't the Codex state that the Batarians are funding a proxy war against the Alliance and its colonies?
An open mind is a mind open to control.

[Undertone]

Last Vizard wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
My point is that the Batarian race did not have a point in their history where they stood up for whats right and fought for the rights of those who had none.

Something you have absolutely no way of knowing, given that we have hardly any information on their history.  For all we know, such things did happen and either failed, or were reversed by subsequent events.

"Yes, Batarians are the poor victims of citadel society and the media... personally i blame the schools", says the human while defending his family and coloney from Batarian slavers ..... or the Human looking into the night sky just to see two missiles arc through it.... or the Human watching a mining asteroid being propelled toward the capital on a vid screen.... they wouldn't harm innocents at all, which means my assumption that their minds are filled with propaganda and hate towards Humans and that the Batarian speaker on Omega does represent all Batarians is incorrect.

Demonizing the enemy is a tactic well known and always used. In war there are no right side or wrong side with very very few exceptions. Unfortunately I don't think you have the level of maturity to understand such argument alas. I hate to be political again but do you think all Germans were evil in the Second World War? Or that russians and americans did not commit war crimes? Every side committed atrocities. To claim all batarians are evil provides a not level-headed and mature opinion.

[Undertone]

Last Vizard wrote...

Undertone wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

There are some decent batarians just like there are some decent humans, Asari, Volus, Elcor, Turian, Krogan, Hanar, and so on. Not every one is evil and irredeemable in the Batarians.

I ask you to point out 5.  I can think of 3 "decent" Batarians.  However I've always judged groups based on the representatives I encounter.  The majority of Albertans I've met are x so Albertans are x, and so on.  The vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Batarians we encounter are scum who deserve to die; therefore Batarians are scum who deserve to die.  A simple system but it hasn't failed me so far.

You must be the epitome of close-mindnessness then. The sample of batarians we meet is very scarce and all of them are not representatives of the Hegemony. It is true that out of that sample the grand majority are scum, evil or unrealiable. That sample however is very small and insignificant.

It's like saying that the Koprulu humans are the same as the UED humans and that the dark templar are the same as the Khalai protoss. (StarCraft) Or that Americans and Canadians are the same.

Isn't the Hegemony the dictatorship the only government the Batarians have? Doesn't the Codex state that the Batarians are funding a proxy war against the Alliance and its colonies?
An open mind is a mind open to control.

It's called looking after your own interest. Humans do it, Batarians do it, Turians do it, everyone does it. Liberal democracy is not always the best regime. If you had even the slightest knowledge of political science you would know that. Sometimes dicatorships prove to be much more effective then liberal democracies. Albeit a certain kind of dictatorships. Such examples are Germany post WW1 and the Roman Empire.

Modifié par Undertone, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:29 .

[Last Vizard]

Undertone wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
My point is that the Batarian race did not have a point in their history where they stood up for whats right and fought for the rights of those who had none.

Something you have absolutely no way of knowing, given that we have hardly any information on their history.  For all we know, such things did happen and either failed, or were reversed by subsequent events.

"Yes, Batarians are the poor victims of citadel society and the media... personally i blame the schools", says the human while defending his family and coloney from Batarian slavers ..... or the Human looking into the night sky just to see two missiles arc through it.... or the Human watching a mining asteroid being propelled toward the capital on a vid screen.... they wouldn't harm innocents at all, which means my assumption that their minds are filled with propaganda and hate towards Humans and that the Batarian speaker on Omega does represent all Batarians is incorrect.

Demonizing the enemy is a tactic well known and always used. In war there are no right side or wrong side with very very few exceptions. Unfortunately I don't think you have the level of maturity to understand such argument alas. I hate to be political again but do you think all Germans were evil in the Second World War? Or that russians and americans did not commit war crimes? Every side committed atrocities. To claim all batarians are evil provides a not level-headed and mature opinion.

WW2 here we go, the standing army of Germany tried to eliminate Hitler about 9 times, Hitler and the SS (made up of mostly Germans but some French, Dutch other defeated countries) were evil.... Communism is a system that cannot work because we are flawed, while millions starved after WW2 Stalin was exporting huge amounts of wheat (where did the interests of the people fit in there?) and Americans are Americans... without them butting heads with corrupt dictatorships the world would be worse off to a degree, they are partial to oil though.

Its easy to sit on the fence and claim that everyone is innocent and noone is accountable isn't it? in the Batarians case, their culture is so different they don't see anything wrong with taking slaves.... does that mean that slave labour is ok in your opinion?

[Lloydie2006]

My main problem withy Batarians is that they actively suport slavery and claim it is a part of their cultural identity so I would imagine a large amount of Batarians support it mainly the ones with a rod shoved up their ass, a rod called "tradition". While we dont know what happens to people captures by Batarian I would say that they are sold to companys in the Hegemony to work as manual labour so slavery is a vital part of the Batarian economy a act that is considered one of the worst crimes possible.

[Undertone]

Last Vizard wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
My point is that the Batarian race did not have a point in their history where they stood up for whats right and fought for the rights of those who had none.

Something you have absolutely no way of knowing, given that we have hardly any information on their history.  For all we know, such things did happen and either failed, or were reversed by subsequent events.

"Yes, Batarians are the poor victims of citadel society and the media... personally i blame the schools", says the human while defending his family and coloney from Batarian slavers ..... or the Human looking into the night sky just to see two missiles arc through it.... or the Human watching a mining asteroid being propelled toward the capital on a vid screen.... they wouldn't harm innocents at all, which means my assumption that their minds are filled with propaganda and hate towards Humans and that the Batarian speaker on Omega does represent all Batarians is incorrect.

Demonizing the enemy is a tactic well known and always used. In war there are no right side or wrong side with very very few exceptions. Unfortunately I don't think you have the level of maturity to understand such argument alas. I hate to be political again but do you think all Germans were evil in the Second World War? Or that russians and americans did not commit war crimes? Every side committed atrocities. To claim all batarians are evil provides a not level-headed and mature opinion.

WW2 here we go, the standing army of Germany tried to eliminate Hitler about 9 times, Hitler and the SS (made up of mostly Germans but some French, Dutch other defeated countries) were evil.... Communism is a system that cannot work because we are flawed, while millions starved after WW2 Stalin was exporting huge amounts of wheat (where did the interests of the people fit in there?) and Americans are Americans... without them butting heads with corrupt dictatorships the world would be worse off to a degree, they are partial to oil though.

Its easy to sit on the fence and claim that everyone is innocent and noone is accountable isn't it? in the Batarians case, their culture is so different they don't see anything wrong with taking slaves.... does that mean that slave labour is ok in your opinion?

Uhm yes exactly. Even your statements show that the Germans views weren't exactly unified and differed. Which is my point... (facepalm) To claim every single one of them was evil is again facepalm worthy. 

Where do you even see me talking about Communism? Also my friend, communism never existed - it's an utopia, are you familiar with that word? What you are talking about is socialism - which as every other system had it's benefits and flaws. I've lived under it.  I've seen first hand what socialism and what liberal democracies are. Have you? I think you are a little bit too much raised with propaganda  

Uhm no, look at Iraq. Where once was a dictatorship which was safe for the Iraqis, it now is total chaos. My best friend is an Iraqi who lived almost his entire life there and is now in university, seeking refuge. Despite that Americans wanted to create liberal democracy there, it didn't work because they overlooked the fundamental principles before establishing a liberal democracy. There were other goals for which the Americans went to Iraq but I will not derail this thread even further.

I am not claiming everyone is innocent. I am claiming everyone is equally guilty in some aspects. But not all batarians are intrinsically evil.

And yes I do believe slave labour is okay and appropriate under certain conditions and in terms of the political system. We are not given much information about the batarian society or political regime but considering that the Hegemony have been for quite awhile, it would have fallen by now if it didn't work well for them. Or it will fail soon. If such was the case however undoubtedly we would have heard it from some sort of media or from accounts of the batarians that have escaped the Hegemony (and are that small sample we've met so far within the ME 1&2 universe).

As to why I would support slave labour under certain conditions, that will take some time to explain and I do not believe you have the level of maturity or experience to understand my arguments. Thus I will leave at just that.

[Aurica]

I don't hate Batarians.  Though if I were to get in character then yes, some of my Shepards will absolutely hate them.
A couple of things come to mind.

1. We have only met a fraction of the Batarians.  I do not think ALL Batarians are like this until proven otherwise.  It does not seem fair to generalise the entire species based on the attitudes and actions of a few individuals.  Its almost as bad as making generalisations such as... 
ALL Chinese eat dog meat, have slanted eyes & speak terrible English.
ALL Black people are gangstas, listens to rap & eats fried chicken
ALL Americans are big fat and obese because they eat too much Fastfood..

2. Perspective.  We are different species & have different culture.  It isnt exactly right to judge another race/specie by our own standards.  Humans feel that they have to fight tor their place in the council, but other aliens feel that humans are given a seat on the council too fast.  They see us as bullies and pushy, but we obviously don't see ourselves as such.

An analogy.  Some religions originating from India considered cows sacred and they do not eat meat from the bovine family.  Beef is a pretty standard fare for people in the western countries.  Many western countries consider it inhumane to eat dogs etc.  But in some parts of China and Korea, this is a standard fare. 

We are not of the same world, so why impose our views on others? 

But  if I'm in a Mass Effect world, I sure as heck wouldn't want to be captured as a slave.  I wouldn't hate them but I would limit my contact with them or stay away.  Even if it seems like I'm generalising them all as slavers and what not.  It may sound hypocritical but I rather stay alive or free.  Conflict of interest, probably.

Modifié par Aurica, 24 janvier 2011 - 10:08 .

[Undertone]

Aurica wrote...

I don't hate Batarians.  Though if I were to get in character then yes, some of my Shepards will absolutely hate them.
A couple of things come to mind.

1. We have only met a fraction of the Batarians.  I do not think ALL Batarians are like this until proven otherwise.  It does not seem fair to generalise the entire species based on the attitudes and actions of a few individuals.  Its almost as bad as making generalisations such as... 
ALL Chinese eat dog meat, have slanted eyes & speak terrible English.
ALL Black people are gangstas, listens to rap & eats fried chicken
ALL Americans are big fat and obese because they eat too much Fastfood..

2. Perspective.  We are different species & have different culture.  It isnt exactly right to judge another race/specie by our own standards.  Humans feel that they have to fight tor their place in the council, but other aliens feel that humans are given a seat on the council too fast.  They see us as bullies and pushy, but we obviously don't see ourselves as such.

An analogy.  Some religions originating from India considered cows sacred and they do not eat meat from the bovine family.  Beef is a pretty standard fare for people in the western countries.  Many western countries consider it inhumane to eat dogs etc.  But in some parts of China and Korea, this is a standard fare. 

We are not of the same world, so why impose our views on others? 

But  if I'm in a Mass Effect world, I sure as heck wouldn't want to be captured as a slave.  I wouldn't hate them but I would limit my contact with them or stay away.  Even if it seems like I'm generalising them all as slavers and what not.  It may sound hypocritical but I rather stay alive or free.  Conflict of interest, probably.

Unfortunately that's a concept apparently people have a hard time to grasp. They think their values and ideals are universal and apply to everyone

[SandTrout]

I don't hate Batarians, though I do have several perfectly logical reasons to regard them with hostility whenever I meet them.

1) The Batarian nation is a threat to the Alliance and humans in general. They regularly fund attacks on human settlements and merchant traffic. Humanity in general will not be safe while the Batarian Hegemony exists.

2) The majority of Batarians than I have encountered have been actively hostile. The majority of those that were not actively hostile expressed a general hostility toward my species. Therefore, I expect any Batarian I meet to be hostile. If this trend changes, I may change my attitude toward individual Batarians, but will have zero baring on my attitude toward the Hegemony in general.

3) Batarians are a competing species for the same scarce resources that my species desires. Any action that they take that denies those resources to my species hurts humanity as a whole, and therefore should be stopped if reasonably possible.

As for value of a Batarian life as compared to a human life: Value is subjective. A Batarian life has little intrinsic value to me. I'm sure the Batrians place more value on it, but very little on human life. Placing an alien life as equal to that of a human life is an invitation to extinction. To me, it's on par with modern Eco-terrorist wanting to sterilize the entire human population because they think we're killing the earth. BTW, that's not an exaggeration in the least, it is the stated demands from that nutjob that took the Discovery Channel hostage.

[Aurica]

SandTrout wrote...


As for value of a Batarian life as compared to a human life: Value is subjective. A Batarian life has little intrinsic value to me. I'm sure the Batrians place more value on it, but very little on human life. Placing an alien life as equal to that of a human life is an invitation to extinction. To me, it's on par with modern Eco-terrorist wanting to sterilize the entire human population because they think we're killing the earth. BTW, that's not an exaggeration in the least, it is the stated demands from that nutjob that took the Discovery Channel hostage.

I like this.  It is very pragmatic & honest. 

[didymos1120]

Last Vizard wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
My point is that the Batarian race did not have a point in their history where they stood up for whats right and fought for the rights of those who had none.

Something you have absolutely no way of knowing, given that we have hardly any information on their history.  For all we know, such things did happen and either failed, or were reversed by subsequent events.

"Yes, Batarians are the poor victims of citadel society and the media... personally i blame the schools", says the human while defending his family and coloney from Batarian slavers ..... or the Human looking into the night sky just to see two missiles arc through it.... or the Human watching a mining asteroid being propelled toward the capital on a vid screen.... they wouldn't harm innocents at all, which means my assumption that their minds are filled with propaganda and hate towards Humans and that the Batarian speaker on Omega does represent all Batarians is incorrect.

Wow. That's super-neat.  Has precisely jack to do with the point I made:  neither you nor I have much information about batarian history (no, not even their recent history), and certainly nowhere even remotely close to enough to support your claim that they "did not have a point in their history where they stood up for whats right and fought for the rights of those who had none."  We have some idea what their society is like now.  We have no idea how it got there.

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 janvier 2011 - 10:43 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

bobobo878 wrote...

James2912 wrote...
It can if its fictional! the Orcs of LOTR anyone?

My point is that batarians are more complex than Orcs.

Is it anymore than 4 eyes rather than 2?

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Also, it is well known that Batarians dont wash enough so that should be considered.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

GodWood wrote...

DPSSOC wrote...
I ask you to point out 5.  I can think of 3 "decent" Batarians.  However I've always judged groups based on the representatives I encounter.  The majority of Albertans I've met are x so Albertans are x, and so on.  The vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of Batarians we encounter are scum who deserve to die; therefore Batarians are scum who deserve to die.  A simple system but it hasn't failed me so far.

That's some retarded logic man.

I had thought I'd disagree with Godwood, but nope he is right. I'd go further and say you're a simpleton.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 24 janvier 2011 - 11:31 .

[lastpatriot]

Super ._. Shepard wrote...

not every single batarian is bad

Can we really take that chance considering the history so far?  Isn't it better for everyone if we just kill them all anyways?

[ROD525]

Undertone wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
My point is that the Batarian race did not have a point in their history where they stood up for whats right and fought for the rights of those who had none.

Something you have absolutely no way of knowing, given that we have hardly any information on their history.  For all we know, such things did happen and either failed, or were reversed by subsequent events.

"Yes, Batarians are the poor victims of citadel society and the media... personally i blame the schools", says the human while defending his family and coloney from Batarian slavers ..... or the Human looking into the night sky just to see two missiles arc through it.... or the Human watching a mining asteroid being propelled toward the capital on a vid screen.... they wouldn't harm innocents at all, which means my assumption that their minds are filled with propaganda and hate towards Humans and that the Batarian speaker on Omega does represent all Batarians is incorrect.

Demonizing the enemy is a tactic well known and always used. In war there are no right side or wrong side with very very few exceptions. Unfortunately I don't think you have the level of maturity to understand such argument alas. I hate to be political again but do you think all Germans were evil in the Second World War? Or that russians and americans did not commit war crimes? Every side committed atrocities. To claim all batarians are evil provides a not level-headed and mature opinion.

WW2 here we go, the standing army of Germany tried to eliminate Hitler about 9 times, Hitler and the SS (made up of mostly Germans but some French, Dutch other defeated countries) were evil.... Communism is a system that cannot work because we are flawed, while millions starved after WW2 Stalin was exporting huge amounts of wheat (where did the interests of the people fit in there?) and Americans are Americans... without them butting heads with corrupt dictatorships the world would be worse off to a degree, they are partial to oil though.

Its easy to sit on the fence and claim that everyone is innocent and noone is accountable isn't it? in the Batarians case, their culture is so different they don't see anything wrong with taking slaves.... does that mean that slave labour is ok in your opinion?

Uhm yes exactly. Even your statements show that the Germans views weren't exactly unified and differed. Which is my point... (facepalm) To claim every single one of them was evil is again facepalm worthy. 

Where do you even see me talking about Communism? Also my friend, communism never existed - it's an utopia, are you familiar with that word? What you are talking about is socialism - which as every other system had it's benefits and flaws. I've lived under it.  I've seen first hand what socialism and what liberal democracies are. Have you? I think you are a little bit too much raised with propaganda  

Uhm no, look at Iraq. Where once was a dictatorship which was safe for the Iraqis, it now is total chaos. My best friend is an Iraqi who lived almost his entire life there and is now in university, seeking refuge. Despite that Americans wanted to create liberal democracy there, it didn't work because they overlooked the fundamental principles before establishing a liberal democracy. There were other goals for which the Americans went to Iraq but I will not derail this thread even further.

I am not claiming everyone is innocent. I am claiming everyone is equally guilty in some aspects. But not all batarians are intrinsically evil.

And yes I do believe slave labour is okay and appropriate under certain conditions and in terms of the political system. We are not given much information about the batarian society or political regime but considering that the Hegemony have been for quite awhile, it would have fallen by now if it didn't work well for them. Or it will fail soon. If such was the case however undoubtedly we would have heard it from some sort of media or from accounts of the batarians that have escaped the Hegemony (and are that small sample we've met so far within the ME 1&2 universe).

As to why I would support slave labour under certain conditions, that will take some time to explain and I do not believe you have the level of maturity or experience to understand my arguments. Thus I will leave at just that.

I dont care what conditions are present or what part of the globe you come from, slavery in any form is wrong.

[azerSheppard]

ROD525 wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

Undertone wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Last Vizard wrote...
My point is that the Batarian race did not have a point in their history where they stood up for whats right and fought for the rights of those who had none.

Something you have absolutely no way of knowing, given that we have hardly any information on their history.  For all we know, such things did happen and either failed, or were reversed by subsequent events.

"Yes, Batarians are the poor victims of citadel society and the media... personally i blame the schools", says the human while defending his family and coloney from Batarian slavers ..... or the Human looking into the night sky just to see two missiles arc through it.... or the Human watching a mining asteroid being propelled toward the capital on a vid screen.... they wouldn't harm innocents at all, which means my assumption that their minds are filled with propaganda and hate towards Humans and that the Batarian speaker on Omega does represent all Batarians is incorrect.

Demonizing the enemy is a tactic well known and always used. In war there are no right side or wrong side with very very few exceptions. Unfortunately I don't think you have the level of maturity to understand such argument alas. I hate to be political again but do you think all Germans were evil in the Second World War? Or that russians and americans did not commit war crimes? Every side committed atrocities. To claim all batarians are evil provides a not level-headed and mature opinion.

WW2 here we go, the standing army of Germany tried to eliminate Hitler about 9 times, Hitler and the SS (made up of mostly Germans but some French, Dutch other defeated countries) were evil.... Communism is a system that cannot work because we are flawed, while millions starved after WW2 Stalin was exporting huge amounts of wheat (where did the interests of the people fit in there?) and Americans are Americans... without them butting heads with corrupt dictatorships the world would be worse off to a degree, they are partial to oil though.

Its easy to sit on the fence and claim that everyone is innocent and noone is accountable isn't it? in the Batarians case, their culture is so different they don't see anything wrong with taking slaves.... does that mean that slave labour is ok in your opinion?

Uhm yes exactly. Even your statements show that the Germans views weren't exactly unified and differed. Which is my point... (facepalm) To claim every single one of them was evil is again facepalm worthy. 

Where do you even see me talking about Communism? Also my friend, communism never existed - it's an utopia, are you familiar with that word? What you are talking about is socialism - which as every other system had it's benefits and flaws. I've lived under it.  I've seen first hand what socialism and what liberal democracies are. Have you? I think you are a little bit too much raised with propaganda  

Uhm no, look at Iraq. Where once was a dictatorship which was safe for the Iraqis, it now is total chaos. My best friend is an Iraqi who lived almost his entire life there and is now in university, seeking refuge. Despite that Americans wanted to create liberal democracy there, it didn't work because they overlooked the fundamental principles before establishing a liberal democracy. There were other goals for which the Americans went to Iraq but I will not derail this thread even further.

I am not claiming everyone is innocent. I am claiming everyone is equally guilty in some aspects. But not all batarians are intrinsically evil.

And yes I do believe slave labour is okay and appropriate under certain conditions and in terms of the political system. We are not given much information about the batarian society or political regime but considering that the Hegemony have been for quite awhile, it would have fallen by now if it didn't work well for them. Or it will fail soon. If such was the case however undoubtedly we would have heard it from some sort of media or from accounts of the batarians that have escaped the Hegemony (and are that small sample we've met so far within the ME 1&2 universe).

As to why I would support slave labour under certain conditions, that will take some time to explain and I do not believe you have the level of maturity or experience to understand my arguments. Thus I will leave at just that.

I dont care what conditions are present or what part of the globe you come from, slavery in any form is wrong.

That's very narrow-minded. We can come to an agreement that slavery is an abomination to us, humans. But heres the thing, Battarians aren't human. You can't for instance send a lion to jail for killing his pray. Even if the pray is protected from being hunted on, ir if it's someones property. Human laws can only be uttulized on Humans, therefore, saying that slavery is wrong in any form, is like saying the jellos are "overly" polite, they are what they are. 

Good and evil is nothing more than our morale build up by millions of years of evolution. If their evolution differs from ours(which it does), than so does their perspective of good and evil.

just my 0.02€ 

[Big stupid jellyfish]

lastpatriot wrote...

Super ._. Shepard wrote...

not every single batarian is bad

Can we really take that chance considering the history so far?  Isn't it better for everyone if we just kill them all anyways?

This always makes me wonder whether "them all" includes children, pregnant women, young batarians being in love, old batarians worrying about their grandchildren, citizens opressed by the government, those who try to oppose the Hegemony, etc., etc.

Mind you, I'm all for eliminating terrorists, dictators, those who abuse power no matter which planet they're from and how many eyes they have. But if there's a chance to help batarians establish a new, more liberal government instead of Hegemony I'do what I can, I guess. Wiping all batarians out, including civilian population, is genocide, and those who commit it are on the same level as terrorists and slavers, if not worse. Just my opinion, though. (Or maybe I'm so touchy because of the country I'm from.)

[ROD525]

I guess my views are somewhat narrow on this subject,Im cool with that.

Taking other sentient beings from there homes,worlds,colonys...whatever, by force and making them perform slave labor and other sorts of things I wont go into is wrong. Period.

I dont need to know how another race evolved to know that if you are routinely raiding other worlds for slaves,then from my perspective you need to be put down. And if the citizens of the Batarian homeworld are okay with the practice of slave grabbing and terrorist strikes then they're guilty by association. If I have a choice any Batarian I see gets a singularity to the dome.