208 réponses à ce sujet

[lovgreno]

Genocide has almost always have been a bad idea historicaly. It almost never makes things safer for anyone, quite the contrary in fact. Short sighted brutalities like that often leads to spectacular self defeats.



Start killing off the batarians and they will answer with the same thing. Even if the genocide plan suceeds (not likely as there are many places to hide in the galaxy) the cost in human lives would be extremely high. And when other aliens sees that genocide is how humans solve conflicts they are quite likely to join the batarians to protect themselves. Who knows who is next after the Batarians? It could end with human genocide instead if you are unlucky, is that risk worth it?

[didymos1120]

ROD525 wrote...
I dont need to know how another race evolved to know that if you are routinely raiding other worlds for slaves,then from my perspective you need to be put down. And if the citizens of the Batarian homeworld are okay with the practice of slave grabbing and terrorist strikes then they're guilty by association.

Let's make a couple changes:

"I don't need to know about some other nation to know that if you are routinely raiding other parts of the world for slaves, then you need to be put down. And if the citizens of that nation are okay with the practice of slave grabbing and conquest then they're guilty by association."

Pretty much any given subset of humanity fits that description at one or another point in their history. Still think outright extermination's the way to go?

[Aeowyn]

Serioulsy, how many batarians live outside Batarian Hegemony space? And people want to exterminate them because of a few bad batarians? Wow.

[MilleyCastfire]

I just don't like the Batarins that try and kill me...they are just mean xD

[Thompson family]

My only disagreement with the original post is that it's interpretation is too modern. I don't think the designers sat down and thought "Here's something we don't like about China. Lets use that." The examples in the OP are fine, as examples, but they leave the impression the designers are commenting on current political events. I think the Batarians are a personification of a lot of loathsome things with a lot more history than that.

As somebody already posted, the Bring Down the Sky mission explains a lot. The Batarians started a war with the Alliance in a dispute over colonization rights. The Alliance proved much tougher than the Batarians believed, fought back and won. Then (in Shepard's words) the Batarians went "running to the Council," which refused to intervene in a war between two non-Council species. The Batarians got kicked back to their system and have been bitter against the Alliance and Council ever since. The only reason there's not a Batarian/Alliance war now is because the Batarians wouldn't win it.

Also, in ME1, if you play a "colonist" character, there's a scenario where you talk-down a suicidal girl who was taken by Batarian slavers as a child. You get a pretty graphic description of what sci-fi slavery is like: mind-bending drugs, neural implants that take away your ability to think for yourself in painful ways. The spectacle of seeing your parents melt into puddles of liquid when they try to protect you during the slave raid. All that plus the traditional treatment of beatings, deprivation, degradation and frequent rape.

Argue its part of their culture if you want. Killing the pharoh's slaves to serve him in the afterlife was part of a culture once. There comes a time to move on, to recognize that nobody's volunteering to help the Batarians with their "cultural" needs. Slavery is an inextricable part of Batarian culture. Well, defending against attackers bent on slave-raiding and retaliating with all necessary force is an inextricable part of Alliance Culture, and most other cultures besides. Let's all honor our cultures.

==================

Now, with all that said: If that Batarian terrorist from Bring Down the Sky showed up with a workable plan to kill a Reaper by crashing an asteriod into it, I'd hear what he had to say. If it would work, I'd work with him.

To paraphrase, my aim is to defeat the Reapers. If the Reapers invaded hell, I'd at least make favorable references to the Devil before the Council

Modifié par Thompson family, 24 janvier 2011 - 02:48 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

didymos1120 wrote...

ROD525 wrote...
I dont need to know how another race evolved to know that if you are routinely raiding other worlds for slaves,then from my perspective you need to be put down. And if the citizens of the Batarian homeworld are okay with the practice of slave grabbing and terrorist strikes then they're guilty by association.

Let's make a couple changes:

"I don't need to know about some other nation to know that if you are routinely raiding other parts of the world for slaves, then you need to be put down. And if the citizens of that nation are okay with the practice of slave grabbing and conquest then they're guilty by association."

Pretty much any given subset of humanity fits that description at one or another point in their history. Still think outright extermination's the way to go?

for the second time today - I am entertained by the internet.

[Aurica]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...
for the second time today - I am entertained by the internet.

Yea?  LOL you said that in quite alot of your posts.

[armass]

People used to hate geth, then in the second game they met a geth unlike any we had seen before, an actual peaceful geth. I wish we get a similar batarian in ME3 so they wont end up as this totally morally evil race beyond any development or realism.

I am actually quite shocked by how some people simply judge this race ok for genocide without thinking about it too much. Granted Bioware has made it's best as the opener said to make this race highly unlikeble and distasteful in peoples eyes. But come oon, they can't all be that bad, use your senses people!

Modifié par armass, 27 janvier 2011 - 01:20 .

[InvincibleHero]

Well I think character design plays into it. They do look very hostile/evil. I loved the comment when you keep your side of the bargain in the hostage situaution. He was surprised to meet an honorable human. Touche non.

[Rapamaha]

I dont hate Batarians, infact I really want one for my crew in ME3

[Yakko77]

To be fair, every batarian I've killed either shot at me first or was trying to kill anywhere from one to millions of humans.



Maybe on their planets there are batarians who live under repression and are waiting for their moment to free themselves but until that time, the exceedingly vast majority I encounter are murderous savages to be put down like dogs.

[Sajuro]

Yakko77 wrote...

To be fair, every batarian I've killed either shot at me first or was trying to kill anywhere from one to millions of humans.

Maybe on their planets there are batarians who live under repression and are waiting for their moment to free themselves but until that time, the exceedingly vast majority I encounter are murderous savages to be put down like dogs.

Batarian Shepard: To be fair, every human I've killed either shot at me first or was trying to kill anywhere from one to millions of batarians. Maybe I will meet some good humans, but until then the exceedingly vast majority I encounter are murderous savages to be put down like dogs.

[Yakko77]

Sajuro wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

To be fair, every batarian I've killed either shot at me first or was trying to kill anywhere from one to millions of humans.

Maybe on their planets there are batarians who live under repression and are waiting for their moment to free themselves but until that time, the exceedingly vast majority I encounter are murderous savages to be put down like dogs.

Batarian Shepard: To be fair, every human I've killed either shot at me first or was trying to kill anywhere from one to millions of batarians. Maybe I will meet some good humans, but until then the exceedingly vast majority I encounter are murderous savages to be put down like dogs.

When was the last time a human raiding party tried to crash an asteroid on a batarian colony of millions?

Are there brutal human criminals who should be put down like rabid animals?  Of course.  There are also heroic and noble humans who bring them to justice.  With the exception of the tech Garrus had, we have encountered ZERO  noble or heroic batarians to my knowledge so you counterpoint is flawed to put it mildly.  Batarian brutality towards humans is a organized and encouraged practice by the batarian govt.  The Alliance all to often it seems merely responds to such aggression and does too little to prevent it IMO.  Unless something changes in batarian society soon, there will be war and it WILL be of the batarians own making.

Modifié par Yakko77, 27 janvier 2011 - 06:14 .

[Yakko77]

Rapamaha wrote...

I dont hate Batarians, infact I really want one for my crew in ME3

I  would welcome the introduction of some heroic batarians who want to protect society and correct injustice.

Right now, they're just too easy to hate.  They have to be more complicated and sophisticated than that.

[SandTrout]

Sajuro wrote...

Batarian Shepard: To be fair, every human I've killed either shot at me first or was trying to kill anywhere from one to millions of batarians. Maybe I will meet some good humans, but until then the exceedingly vast majority I encounter are murderous savages to be put down like dogs.

The Alliance doesn't make annual raids on Batarian colonies with the only purpose of killing and enslaving the population. The Batarian Hegemony has made it abundantly clear that they consider their continued survival and prosperity mutually exclusive to our own. Moral arguments are no longer relevant when the alternative to violence is death and decline.

Besides that, the reason that the Batarians started the conflict in the traverse in the first place is because the Alliance started colonizing planets that the Baterians were looking at for colonizing. They didn't even have footholds down; they were just saying 'you can't go there because we were about to!' The Alliance did not start the violence, but they're going to do their damnedest to make sure that they come out on top.

[Yakko77]

SandTrout wrote...

Sajuro wrote...
Batarian Shepard: To be fair, every human I've killed either shot at me first or was trying to kill anywhere from one to millions of batarians. Maybe I will meet some good humans, but until then the exceedingly vast majority I encounter are murderous savages to be put down like dogs.

The Alliance doesn't make annual raids on Batarian colonies with the only purpose of killing and enslaving the population. The Batarian Hegemony has made it abundantly clear that they consider their continued survival and prosperity mutually exclusive to our own. Moral arguments are no longer relevant when the alternative to violence is death and decline.
Besides that, the reason that the Batarians started the conflict in the traverse in the first place is because the Alliance started colonizing planets that the Baterians were looking at for colonizing. They didn't even have footholds down; they were just saying 'you can't go there because we were about to!' The Alliance did not start the violence, but they're going to do their damnedest to make sure that they come out on top.

This.

[James2912]

A lot of these supporters of cultural relativism are forgetting the point of cultural relativism there is no right or wrong, just what amounts to various cultures having various values and opinons on morality, so the same people who are supporting the Batarians culture of slavery should also support humanity's culture of kicking the ass out of bullies, dictators, and people who wish to enslave fellow humans! In my culture its ok to topple totalitarian regimes, so cultural relativists are you going to hypocritically condemn my culture while saying all cultures are equal?

[SandTrout]

James2912 wrote...

A lot of these supporters of cultural relativism are forgetting the point of cultural relativism there is no right or wrong, just what amounts to various cultures having various values and opinons on morality, so the same people who are supporting the Batarians culture of slavery should also support humanity's culture of kicking the ass out of bullies, dictators, and people who wish to enslave fellow humans! In my culture its ok to topple totalitarian regimes, so cultural relativists are you going to hypocritically condemn my culture while saying all cultures are equal?

And in for the low blow! Well said.

[James2912]

Thank you kind sir!

[Sister Helen]

Garrus mentioned in a conversation on the Normandy 2 that the tech expert on his squad was a Batarian. In the same conversation, Garrus talks about how everyone on his squad lost someone to the Omega gangs, how he found recruits (or they found him), and the squad's purpose. The Batarian on the squad didn't betray Garrus - a Taurian did.



It was pretty much that set of conversations which made me more receptive to letting the Batarians go (in Omega as part of Mordin's recruiting quest) and negotiating with the mercenaries in the expanded content mission.



On a side note, I also found Aria's Batarian assistant (the one who scans you when you meet her for the first time and the one at whom she throws an electronic reader later on) to be kind of cute, in a doofus/"oh hell, I just pissed off the boss lady" sort of way.

[SandTrout]

On a side note, I also found Aria's Batarian assistant (the one who scans you when you meet her for the first time and the one at whom she throws an electronic reader later on) to be kind of cute, in a doofus/"oh hell, I just pissed off the boss lady" sort of way.

Damnit, I told them they should have had a batarian section of Fornax! j/k

[Yakko77]

Sister Helen wrote...

Garrus mentioned in a conversation on the Normandy 2 that the tech expert on his squad was a Batarian. In the same conversation, Garrus talks about how everyone on his squad lost someone to the Omega gangs, how he found recruits (or they found him), and the squad's purpose. The Batarian on the squad didn't betray Garrus - a Taurian did.

This is the main reason I'm willing to give the batarians who are victims of their own brutalitiy a chance in ME3 or a DLC should the opportunity present itself.  The batarians better make a Sears Tower size statue of Garrus when it's all said and done.  The mere hint that not all batarians are terrosist bastards is all that is keeping ALL of my Shepard's (paragon or otherwise) from nuking their worlds if that were an option.

[InvincibleHero]

Not to mention that Nassana Dantius's sister was an asari slaver and eclipse has many asari and undoubtably they dabble in selling people for profit. So by the logic of those condemning all batarians then we should thereby wipe out the asari Scourge. Just NO.

[Yakko77]

InvincibleHero wrote...

Not to mention that Nassana Dantius's sister was an asari slaver and eclipse has many asari and undoubtably they dabble in selling people for profit. So by the logic of those condemning all batarians then we should thereby wipe out the asari Scourge. Just NO.

Except we encounter MANY asari who are not slavers.  Same with humans and turians.  With the lone exception of the tech in the squad Garrus had in Omega, there are almost no batarians with noble or honorable intent.  Some are less bastards than others but none are exactly nice.  Even the sick batarian on Mordin recruitment mission is a bigot unless you resucue him.

That said, I'm almost certain there are many (millions if not billions) of batarians who are victim of injustice at the hands of their own race/species but we have yet to encounter them.  Maybe ME3 or a DLC will introduce us to this.

Modifié par Yakko77, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:46 .

[InvincibleHero]

Yakko77 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

Not to mention that Nassana Dantius's sister was an asari slaver and eclipse has many asari and undoubtably they dabble in selling people for profit. So by the logic of those condemning all batarians then we should thereby wipe out the asari Scourge. Just NO.

Except we encounter MANY asari who are not slavers.  Same with humans and turians.  With the lone exception of the tech in the squad Garrus had in Omega, there are almost no batarians with noble or honorable intent.  Some are less bastards than others but none are exactly nice.  Even the sick batarian on Mordin recruitment mission is a bigot unless you resucue him.

That said, I'm almost certain there are many (millions if not billions) of batarians who are victim of injustice at the hands of their own race/species but we have yet to encounter them.  Maybe ME3 or a DLC will introduce us to this.

I don't know Anto might be a great drinking bud for my renegade Shepard if I got the chance to know him.  We don't get a chance to do anything like that with individual batarians.

Of course the flip side is the hegemony probaly propagandizes humans as the galactic scourge, the evil, and killer of batarian babies. Shooting them all dead isn't going to correct that misconception.