187 réponses à ce sujet

[X-Frame]

The morality meter in ME1 and ME2 is something I have a pretty big issue with, and I'm sure I'm not alone here.

In ME2, for example, you have to continually (well, 90% at least) be a Paragon or a Renegade in order to max out your meters so that you could have those sometimes necessary speech options available to you when you need them. Not sure .. why my decisions at the beginning of the game have anything to do with my ability to reason with my own crew at the end of the game .. but the meter is the reason.

Is a meter really necessary?

In ME1 and ME2, I probably would've played through the game as mostly a paragon but with plenty of renegade options thrown in -- but doing so means my meters would build slower and I probably would've been penalized for it in some end-game speech options.

Not sure about everyone here, but I hope they come up with a different system in ME3 that allows people to select dialogue choices that would fit their personality, or whatever personality they're going for -- instead of polar opposites -- in order to not get left out of any options.

Thoughts?

[jacob marez]

i hate it to,i just mod mine both full so i can play the game the way its supposed to be played

[adam_grif]

Yes, it's terrible. They should have scrapped it entirely and just gone with some kind of reputation system. Choices you've made are known by the NPCs which will influence how they interact with you. The only impact Paragon/Renegade has is influencing your persuade, which is unnecessary anyway. They can just make it a skill like in ME1.

[Confused_Shepard]

Yes. Mass Effect 3 should have an approval system. Paragon/Renegade sucks

[freeeekshow]

i agree 100%, i make decisions based on how i feel, but it makes me mad that It limits me during persuasion.

[GamesAl0t]

The Paragon/Renegade system they set up for ME2 is horrible, I hated it and i hope they change it for ME3..

[DTKT]

Heh.



I felt like most of my Paragon decision would fit how I would envision my "paladin" character. So, no. I didnt feel limited by the meter itself.

[JKoopman]

Mezzil wrote...

Actually it's suppose to be a "repuation" meter.

What he said.

Paragon/Renegade isn't a "morality" meter, nor does it represent Good vs. Evil. It's simply an "Are you known as a fair and just diplomat or a takes-no-nonsense hardass?" meter.

And it kind of makes sense that it influences your ability to persuade others. For example, if you're known for being a law-abiding goody-two-shoes and you try to intimidate someone, it may not work as well as if you're known for putting bullets in people at the slightest provocation.

Modifié par JKoopman, 23 janvier 2011 - 06:34 .

[adam_grif]

What's the point of it being a "reputation" meter if it doesn't have anything to do with our reputation? Literally *The Only* thing it does is influence your persuade meters. Nobody ever comments on your supposed "reputation". I'm not sure how most of the stuff you do is even supposed to influence it. How does telling Mordin that he was right about the Genophage influence what other people think about you? Does Mordin have a galactic twitter account?



"@CommanderShepard



Hey guys Shepard said he thinks the Genophage was the right move. Please be more afraid of him in the future."



Half the stuff you do is just one-on-ones with your own squadmates, or something you do that nobody will ever hear about. Gunning down a random eclipse merc somehow gives you more of a reputation as a badass than gunning down the whole base does normally, just because you are picking bottom right options instead of top right?

[AlanC9]

X-Frame wrote...

In ME2, for example, you have to continually (well, 90% at least) be a Paragon or a Renegade in order to max out your meters so that you could have those sometimes necessary speech options available to you when you need them. 

I wouldn't say need there. The worst that can happen is that you lose someone's loyalty. It's not worth it to worry about the meter.

Having said that, morality meters are worthless. A reputation meter isn't a bad thing at all, but Bio's implementation of Paragon/Renegade is incoherent. Sometimes it works like alignment, sometimes like reputation.

Modifié par AlanC9, 23 janvier 2011 - 08:15 .

[Dreggon]

"I would like you two to stop fighting, please."

"Sorry dude, you only have 78% Paragon, you need 80%."

"But--"

"80%."

[Forsythia]

I liked the charm/intimidate system in ME1 more than what we got in ME2. At least with that, I still had the option to occasionally intimidate someone as a paragon. The system in ME2 is too restrictive.

Modifié par Forsythia, 23 janvier 2011 - 09:34 .

[slimgrin]

Dreggon wrote...

"I would like you two to stop fighting, please."
"Sorry dude, you only have 78% Paragon, you need 80%."
"But--"
"80%."

Lol! 

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the meter. Hopefully they can it and we see more grey in ME3.

[Bluko]

I liked it better simply because you could for once actually Charm or Intimidate people. In ME1 good luck with that. Even if you do dump all your points into the Charm/Intimidate skills you generally aren't a high enough level to use them for most of the game's scenarios. ME1 was far worse since more often then not your options will be grayed out until you get to the middle or end of the game. For what it's worth I've tried Paragade in ME1 and it didn't work at all. Rather then being able to intimidate or charm I could do neither. Couldn't talk down Saren even with 12 points in both.

ME1 is really no different. You can't do both of the bonus Paragon/Renegade missions in a singleplaythru.

I don't get it how do you not lean more Paragon or Renegade? Honestly how can you play a character that flip floppy that they save one innocent bystander but let another die in a similar situation? Is your Shepard Bipolar? I've had mostly Paragon playthrus in ME2 where I could still use Intimidation in a few cases, and never had any issue of not being able to use Charm once. I don't get what you people are doing. It's not like making a few Renegade decisions is going to hinder your Paragon progress that much more, or vice versa. Look you either play more Paragon or more Renegade, that's how the game is, and frankly every Bioware game has been just about that way. If you play as a True Neutral character you plain and simple won't be persuasive. You can't be a pure saint and pure badass at the same time. Doesn't work and frankly doesn't make sense.

That said the Miranda/Jack and Tali/Legion are probably the hardest conversations to get the check for. Still I don't think I've had a playthru where I couldn't negotiate those situations. Probably helps if you invest early for your general class skill with the highest Paragon/Renegade modifier.

[Shadesofsiknas]

I hated having to select dialogue based on what was needed to unlock persuades at the end of the game.

Takes more of the RPG feel from the game when you are forced to play one way and not allowed any freedom.

[adam_grif]

If you're importing an ME1 shepard all the persuades are easier because you can bring in 190 paragon and renegade points. Which is a lot!



I've never had the option to recruit Morinth, ever.

[Lotion Soronarr]

JKoopman wrote...

Mezzil wrote...

Actually it's suppose to be a "repuation" meter.

What he said.

Paragon/Renegade isn't a "morality" meter, nor does it represent Good vs. Evil. It's simply an "Are you known as a fair and just diplomat or a takes-no-nonsense hardass?" meter.

And it kind of makes sense that it influences your ability to persuade others. For example, if you're known for being a law-abiding goody-two-shoes and you try to intimidate someone, it may not work as well as if you're known for putting bullets in people at the slightest provocation.

And everyone should know your reputation? Your reputation should be everything?

Does it even matter..Ones aura..presence...or just damn good acting - they should do the trick just as well. BLUFFING.

[didymos1120]

adam_grif wrote...

If you're importing an ME1 shepard all the persuades are easier because you can bring in 190 paragon and renegade points. Which is a lot!

And those count for even more due to the fact that when ME2 calculates the target numbers for any given persuasion, it doesn't count the P/R import bonuses as part of the current maximum available paragon/renegade points. 

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

i don't have a problem with it, what i have a problem with is the dialogue options, in some scenarios I think it would be better if Shepard where more aggressive but if your playing a paragon he can't be, what i don't understand is why can't you be aggressive and still be a paragon. One scenario that comes to mind is when the illusive man sets Shepard up, tbh i would think the Shepard is right if he picks the pissed off dialogue options

[Matchy Pointy]

I really like the way the system works in that the two are not related to each other, but the way they worked for persuassion could have been explained more in game, that's it not only the amount you have that matters really, but the amount you could have had.

[Bourne Endeavor]

I preferred having almost universal availability to both Paragon and Renegade choices to choose upon a whim. What I found irksome is having to be nigh exclusive in one of them to settle conflicts. It essentially amounted to punishing the player for roleplaying.