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[HTTP 404]

Im guessing Reapers are nothing more than parasites that need other life to sustain themselves. but they are smart enough to let life cultivate for 50,000 years (short IMO) and harvaste to replicate and possibly to 'eat'

[JKoopman]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

What I don't get, is why Reapers were told to be completely machines in ME1, that humans are nothing to them (or something like this) and then go all cybernetics in ME2. Well, they managed to retcon the genophage too so it's not surprising...

Technically, we don't know that Reapers are cybernetic. EDI postulates that may be the case, but that's just EDI. The only thing we know for sure was that the Human-Reaper Larva was cybernetic, but whether that's indicative of ALL Reapers or whether the HRL was just some crazy experiment on the part of Harbinger is anyone's guess.

[Evil Johnny 666]

JKoopman wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

What I don't get, is why Reapers were told to be completely machines in ME1, that humans are nothing to them (or something like this) and then go all cybernetics in ME2. Well, they managed to retcon the genophage too so it's not surprising...

Technically, we don't know that Reapers are cybernetic. EDI postulates that may be the case, but that's just EDI. The only thing we know for sure was that the Human-Reaper Larva was cybernetic, but whether that's indicative of ALL Reapers or whether the HRL was just some crazy experiment on the part of Harbinger is anyone's guess.

I thought we were told each Repear had the looks of the race it used to create itself? Can't remember when we are told this, but I'm pretty confident it was said at some point.

[Mecha Tengu]

the gewd guise

[JKoopman]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

What I don't get, is why Reapers were told to be completely machines in ME1, that humans are nothing to them (or something like this) and then go all cybernetics in ME2. Well, they managed to retcon the genophage too so it's not surprising...

Technically, we don't know that Reapers are cybernetic. EDI postulates that may be the case, but that's just EDI. The only thing we know for sure was that the Human-Reaper Larva was cybernetic, but whether that's indicative of ALL Reapers or whether the HRL was just some crazy experiment on the part of Harbinger is anyone's guess.

I thought we were told each Repear had the looks of the race it used to create itself? Can't remember when we are told this, but I'm pretty confident it was said at some point.

The only place I recall ever being told that is here on the forums by certain members of the community who were throwing out assumptions. I don't believe that's ever something stated in-game except perhaps by EDI who, again, is just speculating. And the game itself seems to contradict the notion, as every other Reaper we see seems to share roughl the same "cuttlefish" appearance.

Modifié par JKoopman, 23 janvier 2011 - 09:42 .

[ShadowOfInfinity]

My personal theory is that the Reapers were originally an organic race that transcended their organic bodies. The original Reapers were simply a single, hyperintelligent consciousness, a single member of the original race, uploaded into a Reaper body. Other Reapers were built from the collective consciousness of entire species.



Assuming that each cycle creates only one Reaper, this explains why Sovereign and the derelict Reaper appear to be identical, and also why Sovereign refereed to itself as "I" while Harbinger used "we"; Sovereign was a single entity, Harbinger is millions.

[Evil Johnny 666]

JKoopman wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

I thought we were told each Repear had the looks of the race it used to create itself? Can't remember when we are told this, but I'm pretty confident it was said at some point.

The only place I recall ever being told that is here on the forums by certain members of the community who were throwing out assumptions. I don't believe that's ever something stated in-game except perhaps by EDI who, again, is just speculating. And the game itself seems to contradict the notion, as every other Reaper we see seems to share roughl the same "cuttlefish" appearance.

I found it.

"Incorrect, Reapers are sapient constructs, hybrid of organic and inorganic material" That doesn't seem like an assumption, and that sounds pretty much like a cybernetic.

Why wouldn't most reapers be created from the same species?

And I don't see the point of hearing assumptions from an AI at the end of the game, which aren't at least close to reality. If it's all false, that seems rather pointless to hear it all.

[Dayshadow]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

What I don't get, is why Reapers were told to be completely machines in ME1, that humans are nothing to them (or something like this) and then go all cybernetics in ME2. Well, they managed to retcon the genophage too so it's not surprising...

When was it ever explicitely stated that reapers were 100% machine?  The beacon visions hinted from the start that they were cybernetic.  Soveriegn's own dialog leads to the conclusion that that are not merely machines.  The geth say they are not AI's either.

[JKoopman]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

I thought we were told each Repear had the looks of the race it used to create itself? Can't remember when we are told this, but I'm pretty confident it was said at some point.

The only place I recall ever being told that is here on the forums by certain members of the community who were throwing out assumptions. I don't believe that's ever something stated in-game except perhaps by EDI who, again, is just speculating. And the game itself seems to contradict the notion, as every other Reaper we see seems to share roughl the same "cuttlefish" appearance.

I found it.

"Incorrect, Reapers are sapient constructs, hybrid of organic and inorganic material" That doesn't seem like an assumption, and that sounds pretty much like a cybernetic.

Why wouldn't most reapers be created from the same species?

And I don't see the point of hearing assumptions from an AI at the end of the game, which aren't at least close to reality. If it's all false, that seems rather pointless to hear it all.

Ugh. Which I suppose begs the queston: How does EDI know all this? From her vast experience studying one incomplete Reaper construct that is unlike anything seen before?

It makes me cringe at how badly that section was written.

As for not seeing the point of hearing assumptions from an AI and the end of the game, how does it make less sense than setting Reapers up as a race of sentient machines through the entirety of the first game and 95% of the second only to have an AI spontaneously reveal that they're actually organic/machine hybrids at the end without revealing how said AI could possible have acquired this information?

Modifié par JKoopman, 23 janvier 2011 - 11:15 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

An explanation for the Reapers existence will be a simple thing, because the men behind the game are humans. That said, I hope Bioware isn't going to take the route of explaining everything about them, but, I would rather see an unexplained mystery.



'The best mystery is the one that has no answer' - Alan Wake referencing Stephen King in the beginning of the game.



And man, Alan Wake did have a hell of an ending!

[shoggoth1890]

Cthulhu did it

[ScorpSt]

JKoopman wrote...

Ugh. Which I suppose begs the queston: How does EDI know all this? From her vast experience studying one incomplete Reaper construct that is unlike anything seen before?

It makes me cringe at how badly that section was written.

As for not seeing the point of hearing assumptions from an AI and the end of the game, how does it make less sense than setting Reapers up as a race of sentient machines through the entirety of the first game and 95% of the second only to have an AI spontaneously reveal that they're actually organic/machine hybrids at the end without revealing how said AI could possible have acquired this information?

What about the dead Reaper you got the IFF from. Cerberus supposedly had a lot of time to study that one. While we didn't see it in the few logs we saw, EDI probably downloaded the rest of the logs from the survey team.

[shoggoth1890]

Evolution could have led to them, but with self-modification along the line. If the self-mod were widespread enough amongst the species, their biology would begin to adapt to the change in conditions presented by that mod. If we were to mod our bodies with mechanical legs purely out of laziness, the factors that promote strong, healthy legs would not be important. An individual born without legs would no longer be at a disadvantage of survival, and would live to reproduce, passing on any genetic defect associated with an increased chance of missing limbs. Then consider the fact that if these mods were prevalent enough, the people that had space to place mechanical legs have the potential of being preferred, as they would not have the problem of their real legs being in the way.



I strongly believe though that the idea was to go for parallels to the Great Old Ones from the writings of H.P. Lovecraft. In that light, the Reapers were likely meant to always retain this "incomprehensible" nature; at most associating their creation with supernovae, which has already been done.



I agree, this really should not be in a spoiler-free area. By the time anyone gets to my posts though, they'll most certainly have realized the thread contains spoilers.

[Had-to-say]

JKoopman wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

What do we know about super stong magnetic fields inside magnetars? As far as we know the periodic table may have a completely different atomic weight and application inside a magnetic field that strong. How do we know elements can't be manufactured inside electromagnetic 'furnaces'? There may be more than 92 known atoms inside a magnetar, do atoms even exist inside magnetars? I know it is all specualtion. The statement sentience can only exist in organic carbon based life forms seems terribly arrogant considering the nature of the universe. Just because the idea isn't comforting and easily understood doesn't mean it's outlandish. We know very little about magnetars.

A rock and the human brain are all composed of electrons, protons, and neutrons. It's the atomic organization that makes them different; the atomic weight. Now imagine all of known existence in one atom, our science is very limited when trying to imagine existence before the big bang.

So we take it with 'faith" that there was something before the big bang. Who on Earth is qualified to say what was or wasn't there?

Machines could have evolved first human beings are just self replicating biological machines.

But a naturally-evolved "machine" wouldn't look like a machine. It would just look like any other organic being. Reapers have internal pressurized compartments designed to support organic life. They have sophisticated element zero power plants and advanced mass accelerator weaponry. They have gears and servos and insulated cables and external cameras and holographic projectors. Things like that don't grow through the natural process of evolution (which, I might add, is a process of cell division and mutation; neither of which being something machines are capable of). They are built.

The idea that the Reapers just sprung up out of stardust and magnetic fields is ludicrous to the point where "a wizard did it" would actually be a more plausible explanation. That's like saying that, given a long enough timeline, my dusty old PC might spontaneously grow a new graphics card.

Check this out and lets talk:
This is exactly what evolutionist would have us believe "a wizard did it". Cell division and mutation is "a wizard did it" there is no valid scientific explanation for self replicating and intelligent machines but that is EXACTLY what living cells are. On a subatomic level you and a piece of metal all have electrons, protons and neutrons at the point of the big bang we were all one atom. If you prescribe to the big bang. It is very hocus pocus and it may have some truth to it.  Quantum science is alerting us to the fact that even within our atoms,  there is still even more directed information and intelligence. 


Do you prescribe to organization out of chaos, that everything just got organized and got more complex because thats the way it is, or is this organization directed and intentional?  Your dusty old PC might grow a new graphics card, in the same way in 1000 years your kids may develop ESP.  If your graphics card was self replicating it could gain more valid information to ensure it's survival. There is no wizard only evolution. In the cosmos planets are balls of gas that got organized did they need someone to tell them this is how you do it or did the gas just figure it out on it''s own.  If this is the case should there be lots of life in the cosmos.

We say inanimate objects can evolve because they don't have a moving fluid meduim but what if there are other mediums we are unaware of . I know this idea is asking you to think outside the box and is completely against every rule that we have in science but it may be possible for subparticles to combine in ways on other worlds we haven't thought up. I never even knew magnetars existed so it is possible. Magentic fields do strange things to matter ang gravity.

I am not trying to convince you I am just offering up an idea on how things could be different. 
My favorite star comparrison video enoy:

Modifié par Had-to-say, 24 janvier 2011 - 07:49 .

[JKoopman]

Had-to-say wrote...

JKoopman wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

What do we know about super stong magnetic fields inside magnetars? As far as we know the periodic table may have a completely different atomic weight and application inside a magnetic field that strong. How do we know elements can't be manufactured inside electromagnetic 'furnaces'? There may be more than 92 known atoms inside a magnetar, do atoms even exist inside magnetars? I know it is all specualtion. The statement sentience can only exist in organic carbon based life forms seems terribly arrogant considering the nature of the universe. Just because the idea isn't comforting and easily understood doesn't mean it's outlandish. We know very little about magnetars.

A rock and the human brain are all composed of electrons, protons, and neutrons. It's the atomic organization that makes them different; the atomic weight. Now imagine all of known existence in one atom, our science is very limited when trying to imagine existence before the big bang.

So we take it with 'faith" that there was something before the big bang. Who on Earth is qualified to say what was or wasn't there?

Machines could have evolved first human beings are just self replicating biological machines.

But a naturally-evolved "machine" wouldn't look like a machine. It would just look like any other organic being. Reapers have internal pressurized compartments designed to support organic life. They have sophisticated element zero power plants and advanced mass accelerator weaponry. They have gears and servos and insulated cables and external cameras and holographic projectors. Things like that don't grow through the natural process of evolution (which, I might add, is a process of cell division and mutation; neither of which being something machines are capable of). They are built.

The idea that the Reapers just sprung up out of stardust and magnetic fields is ludicrous to the point where "a wizard did it" would actually be a more plausible explanation. That's like saying that, given a long enough timeline, my dusty old PC might spontaneously grow a new graphics card.

This is exactly what evolutionist would have us believe "a wizard did it". Cell division and mutation is "a wizard did it" there is no valid scientific explanation for self replicating and intelligent machines but that is EXACTLY what living cells are. On a subatomic level you and a piece of metal all have electrons, protons and neutrons at the point of the big bang we were all one atom. If you prescribe to the big bang. It is very hocus pocus and it may have some truth to it.  Quantum science is alerting us to the fact that even within our atoms,  there is still even more directed information and intelligence. 


Do you prescribe to organization out of chaos, that everything just got organized and got more complex because thats the way it is, or is this organization directed and intentional?  Your dusty old PC might grow a new graphics card, in the same way in 1000 years your kids may develop ESP.  If your graphics card was self replicating it could gain more valid information to ensure it's survival. There is no wizard only evolution. In the cosmos planets are balls of gas that got organized did they need someone to tell them this is how you do it or did the gas just figure it out on it''s own.  If this is the case should there be lots of life in the cosmos.

We say inanimate objects can evolve because they don't have a moving fluid meduim but what if there are other mediums we are unaware of . I know this idea is asking you to think outside the box and is completely against every rule that we have in science but it may be possible for subparticles to combine in ways on other worlds we haven't thought up. I never even knew magnetars existed so it is possible. Magentic fields do strange things to matter ang gravity.

I am not trying to convince you I am just offering up an idea on how things could be different. 
My favorite star comparrison video enoy:

No. Just, no. I'm not even going to argue with you, because this is so far into the realm of the ridiculous that it's not even worth the time.

[Had-to-say]

I have an over active imagination, but did you see my clip.

Modifié par Had-to-say, 24 janvier 2011 - 07:51 .

[Nofogdj]

Gandalf-the-Fabulous wrote...

What I want to know is if the Reapers base the design of new reaper models after species that were either wiped out by them or about to be wiped out then what are those weird squid thingies that the original models were based on?

it was the Protheans. If the statues on Ilos are statues of Protheans
that is. Here is a link to a picture that show what Im talking about.
images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100824134135/masseffect/images/b/bd/Prothean_Statue_Hands.jpg

Modifié par Nofogdj, 24 janvier 2011 - 08:04 .

[Had-to-say]

Had-to-say wrote...

I have an over active imagination, but did you see my clip.

Wizardry. TAADAAA!!!

[didymos1120]

Had-to-say wrote...

I have an over active imagination, but did you see my clip.

Oh boy.  The bacterial flagellum thing.  Please don't start maundering on about "irreducible complexity". 

[adam_grif]

didymos1120 wrote...

Had-to-say wrote...

I have an over active imagination, but did you see my clip.

Oh boy.  The bacterial flagellum thing.  Please don't start maundering on about "irreducible complexity". 

I spent 18 months on various boards debunking that garbage. I'm ready to fire on your signal, captain.

[shoggoth1890]

Somehow I have a feeling most of those 18 months were spent talking about watches.

[shoggoth1890]

Oh, and bananas. Can't forget the bananas

[adam_grif]

Also Peanut Butter: The Atheists Nightmare.

[didymos1120]

shoggoth1890 wrote...

Oh, and bananas. Can't forget the bananas

Ah, yes. Bananas.  The "Comfort" food.

[shoggoth1890]

No for the love of god no! I spent years trying to repress my memories of "That Brown Goop Which is Not to be Named"!