93 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
No, I'm pretty sure the name for people who don't care if billions are more likely to die is 'people who don't think Cerberus is necessary for salvation.'

Is it?

Gah! Typo. Isn't.

As in, there's a separate name for it altogether.

Does the ME universe now operate on the principle of the spunky terrorists are the only ones who could save the day? Wouldn't it be worse not to side with the Council?

I've long maintained that there's little logical reason we shouldn't be able to side with both against the Reapers. Council cooperation for the more hard-power threat of scale, Cerberus providing the dedicated research/small scale/financial/technical support.

[Xilizhra]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In fact, I'm sure Cerberus would prefer itself to be destroyed than for the war to go worse for humanity.

According to TIM, the two would be simultaneous. "Cerberus is humanity."

I thought you were more up to speed with metaphors than that, Xil.

I'm not suggesting that TIM believes that Cerberus is some sort of Leviathan-esque superorganism made out of the entire human race (although... that'd mean that Cerberus itself could be a Reaper, which is a really interesting bit of symbolism that will almost certainly never see daylight).

[Someone With Mass]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

They don't.

The Geth have specialized technology in a specific area, but don't have the broad technology that Cerberus has accumulated. They also lack the information network and political connections to understand the Quarians, let alone play a galactic game of power influence.


What the geth bring to the table and what Cerberus bring to the table are different things, neither of which is duplicated or can't be added with eachother.

Shepard can help the geth and the quarians when it comes to connections. It's easier, because Legion says it's not that much between the two races that prevents peace, or at least a temporally truce. Cerberus can't and won't help. Why? Ascension and Overlord plus several other experiments/tortures they've done on the geth and the quarians.

And I honestly don't care what kind of tech it is or how advanced it is as long as it can get the job done.

[Sajuro]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
No, I'm pretty sure the name for people who don't care if billions are more likely to die is 'people who don't think Cerberus is necessary for salvation.'

Is it?

Gah! Typo. Isn't.

As in, there's a separate name for it altogether.

Does the ME universe now operate on the principle of the spunky terrorists are the only ones who could save the day? Wouldn't it be worse not to side with the Council?

I've long maintained that there's little logical reason we shouldn't be able to side with both against the Reapers. Council cooperation for the more hard-power threat of scale, Cerberus providing the dedicated research/small scale/financial/technical support.

I think the Shadow Broker (now your girlfriend) could provide technical support through operatives.

[jbblue05]

lovgreno wrote...

Because Cerberus has lies, assasinations and manipulations as their prefered methods when communicating with people both outside and inside their organisation perhaps? Why should they belive them now when there have never been any good reason to do so before? Many are already sceptical to Shepards claims of "reapers", and for rather fair reasons. The fact that Shepard had to work for a organisation that have managed to make themselves enemies with everyone will hardly make it easier to convince anyone about the real threat that is the reapers.

Every organization has their skeletons in the closet.
I'm sure Liara has dirt on all major governments in Mass Effect.
Why should the Council believe Shepard? As far as they are concerned Shepard is a traitor and a Cerberus agent.
Destroying the CB isn't going to change their opinion.  Plus Shepard has no evidence of the Collector Base.

Cerberus has one enemy and its the Quarians.  Everybody else is simple racism towards Cerberus.  Cerberus hasn't done anything publicly to ****** off aliens except the Quarians.
The COuncil and the Alliance hasn't declared a ruthless anti-Cerberus campaign. And all of the Cerberus hate is propaganda.

The Council and Alliance are more convinced that your a rogue agent than the Reapers are out their

[Zulu_DFA]

jbblue05 wrote...

Cerberus has one enemy and its the Quarians.  Everybody else is simple racism towards Cerberus.  Cerberus hasn't done anything publicly to ****** off aliens except the Quarians.

I'd say the Turians have got some Cerberus blood on their hands. Hopefully, Captain Bailey will get to the bottom of the corruption in the C-Sec and its roots in the Turian embassy.

[Arijharn]

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
No, I'm pretty sure the name for people who don't care if billions are more likely to die is 'people who don't think Cerberus is necessary for salvation.'

Is it?

Gah! Typo. Isn't.

As in, there's a separate name for it altogether.

Does the ME universe now operate on the principle of the spunky terrorists are the only ones who could save the day? Wouldn't it be worse not to side with the Council?

I've long maintained that there's little logical reason we shouldn't be able to side with both against the Reapers. Council cooperation for the more hard-power threat of scale, Cerberus providing the dedicated research/small scale/financial/technical support.

I think the Shadow Broker (now your girlfriend) could provide technical support through operatives.

I think the point he's trying to drive home Sajuro is why limit yourself to having just one when you can have two? The desire to destroy Cerberus may be the right one, but all he's really arguing for is restraint and the exercising of common sense.

Why cause factional in-fighting prior to the arrival of the Reapers (which we know are coming) and entail all the risks that such an action involves (such as loss of assets, personnel, etc, etc) rather than performing a witch-hunt after the dust settles with the fight with the Reapers?

By making Cerberus' dismantling an implicit priority (i.e., trying to take them out prior to the Reapers) is nonsensical considering Cerberus does not offer an as yet certain existential threat to other species like what we know the Reapers represent for all galactic civilisation.

Personally, I'm also of the opinion that when the Reapers arrive, any sort of 'picking and choosing' your allies (i.e., the Council will refuse to ally with you because you're still with Cerberus) is the epitome of stupid. If they are willing to think like that, then I'm of the opinion that that Council is a threat to galactic stability, and not of the effort (and risk) to save. I'll try and save as many civilians on the Citadel as I can though, but those in the heart of the Citadel Tower?

[Undertone]

Xilizhra wrote...

If you get a bunch of possibilities for allies in ME3, but can only choose so many of them... would you choose Cerberus as one of them? Why/why not?

Interesting thread. I would choose them as allies since I'm human-centric and would like to see humanity on top. I don't see why the Illusive Man wouldn't meet Shepard in person as well considering their mutually beneficial relationship. At which point, I will promptly use the opportunity to assassinate the Illusive Man and put Shepard on top or someone else completely loyal to me. 

Empress Shepard also doesn't sound like a bad title too.

Modifié par Undertone, 24 janvier 2011 - 02:02 .

[Xilizhra]

Personally, I'm also of the opinion that when the Reapers arrive, any sort of 'picking and choosing' your allies (i.e., the Council will refuse to ally with you because you're still with Cerberus) is the epitome of stupid. If they are willing to think like that, then I'm of the opinion that that Council is a threat to galactic stability, and not of the effort (and risk) to save. I'll try and save as many civilians on the Citadel as I can though, but those in the heart of the Citadel Tower?

And what if the refusal goes the other way?

[marshalleck]

Undertone wrote...
 I don't see why the Illusive Man wouldn't meet Shepard in person as well considering their mutually beneficial relationship.

Hmm, I wonder...

I will promptly use the opportunity to assassinate the Illusive Man and put Shepard on top or someone else completely loyal to me. 

Empress Shepard also doesn't sound like a bad title too.

Yeah, I don't know. I can't think of any reason why TIM wouldn't meet Shepard in person.

Modifié par marshalleck, 24 janvier 2011 - 02:11 .

[Fortlowe]

My Shep is a ruthless Paragon. The means only justify the ends if D-bags are the ones getting stepped on. I imagine Shep assasinating TIM and reorganizing Cerberus, having Anderson run it instead.

[RAF1940]

I think Cerberus' role will depend on whether or not you kept the base.

[Arijharn]

Xilizhra wrote...

Personally, I'm also of the opinion that when the Reapers arrive, any sort of 'picking and choosing' your allies (i.e., the Council will refuse to ally with you because you're still with Cerberus) is the epitome of stupid. If they are willing to think like that, then I'm of the opinion that that Council is a threat to galactic stability, and not of the effort (and risk) to save. I'll try and save as many civilians on the Citadel as I can though, but those in the heart of the Citadel Tower?

And what if the refusal goes the other way?

Then Cerberus will not be worth the effort to save. I doubt Cerberus would go like that if only because they show a willingness to have Shephard make use of his Spectre status. 

[The Unfallen]

In the Galaxy my Shepard is forging, the idea of 'Human Supremacy' is a dying ideal. Humans are becoming more integrated and more peaceful with the Council and other factions, and he attempted to do so with Cerberus and the Illusive Man, but the situation with the Collector Base completely convinced him, with the IM's little "That base could have secured Human dominance in the Galaxy!" quote, that that was Cerberus's only concern, and Shepard would not have that. David Shepard believes in a united Galaxy, allied en masse against the Reapers, and the ideals of organizations such as Cerberus will only divide the Galaxy, and give the Reapers an angle, a weakness to exploit.



Cerberus is the Galaxy's weakness, as is a majority of the Batarian governments and organizations, as a result, they must either be converted, or destroyed if we are to survive the Reaper onslaught.

[Interactive Civilian]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Of course, we need to ask who has Cerberus prevented from preparing against the Reapers?

By keeping the derelict Reaper secret while his Cerberus science team worked on it (and was subsequently indoctrinated by it), I believe the answer to that question is...

Everyone.

[Arijharn]

Interactive Civilian wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Of course, we need to ask who has Cerberus prevented from preparing against the Reapers?

By keeping the derelict Reaper secret while his Cerberus science team worked on it (and was subsequently indoctrinated by it), I believe the answer to that question is...

Everyone.

Ah no. You see, the council didn't believe in Reapers while one was assaulting their pride and joy, I doubt they'll be any more susceptible to the idea that they exist (and represent a threat) when there's a broken one in a failed star.

[Interactive Civilian]

Arijharn wrote...

Ah no. You see, the council didn't believe in Reapers while one was assaulting their pride and joy, I doubt they'll be any more susceptible to the idea that they exist (and represent a threat) when there's a broken one in a failed star.

You don't think a verified 37 million year old object which technologically (and in many ways morphologically) matches the one that attacked the Citadel would put a "little" dent in their "Sovereign was just Geth technology" facade?

[Sajuro]

marshalleck wrote...

Undertone wrote...
 I don't see why the Illusive Man wouldn't meet Shepard in person as well considering their mutually beneficial relationship.

Hmm, I wonder...

I will promptly use the opportunity to assassinate the Illusive Man and put Shepard on top or someone else completely loyal to me. 

Empress Shepard also doesn't sound like a bad title too.

Yeah, I don't know. I can't think of any reason why TIM wouldn't meet Shepard in person.

Starts with A and rhymes with Kuze
if you are a sole survivor at least

[Arijharn]

Interactive Civilian wrote...
You don't think a verified 37 million year old object which technologically (and in many ways morphologically) matches the one that attacked the Citadel would put a "little" dent in their "Sovereign was just Geth technology" facade?

If they didn't believe in them when one was sitting on their collective faces then no.

Seriously though, the Council was either 'humouring' Shephard about his warnings of the Reapers at the events of the Siege of the Citadel, or afterwards rationalised to themselves that he was mistaken after his/her death and honestly I'm not sure which one is worst.

Also bear in mind that the derelict Reaper itself was not dated to be 37 million years old, it was the Klendagon rift. It was only Cerberus' initiative that allowed anyone to discover the gun or the target, and I doubt either is enough to utterly convince the Council.

All that Sovereign or the Derelict 'Reaper' proves is that there are mysterious dreadnoughts that exist that are supposedly controlled by the Geth. For all that we know, they could rationalise the existence of the Derelict Reaper as being an earlier Geth weapon design that showed promise, but otherwise suffered catastrophic damage and was destroyed.