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How canon applies to Mass effect.


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#1
InvincibleHero

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1. How people define canon here is in no offical dictionary. It is a malapropriation of the word.

2. Here is wikipedia's



This article is not about literary canons of influential works of fiction, but about the concept of a canon that defines the world of a particular fictional series or franchise.
In the context of a work of fiction, the term canon denotes the material accepted as "official", in a fictional universe's fan base. It is often contrasted with, or used as the basis for, works of fan fiction, which are not considered canonical. It is used in two slightly different meanings: first, "it refers to the overall set of storylines, premises, settings, and characters offered by the source media text".[1]:28 In this sense, canon is "the original work from which the fan fiction author borrows,"[2] or "the original media on which the fan fictions are based."[3] Secondly, it is used "as a descriptor of specific incidents, relationships, or story arcs that take place within the overall canon"; thus certain incidents or relationships may be described as being canon or not.[1]:32
The use of the word "canon" in reference to a set of texts derives from Biblical canon, the set of books regarded as scripture.[4] The term was first used in the context of fiction to refer to the Sherlock Holmes stories and novels, written by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, to distinguish those works from subsequent pastiches by other authors.[5][6] It has subsequently been applied to many media franchises. Among these are science fiction franchises such as Star Trek, Star Wars, and Doctor Who, in which many stories have been told in different media, some of which contradict or appear to contradict each other.[6]
When there are multiple "official" works or original media, the question of what is and what is not canon can be unclear. This is resolved either by explicitly excluding certain media from the status of canon (as in the case of Star Trek), or by assigning different levels of canonicity to different media (as in the case of Star Wars), or not at all (as with Doctor Who).

3. The cover of the Mass effect games are in canon. They are official having BW stamped all over it. It is source material. It is not a spinoff or a third party novel or fan fiction. Anyone picking up the box would rightly assume Commander shepard is male. They may do a tapdance about it in the novels, but nowhere in any defintiion does it exclude marketing. If you showed a female Klingon in an episode of Star Trek then it is canon. Likewise depicing Shepard as male on the actual game box can be considered canon.

4. The closest argument you might have is if BW said not canon thereby contradicting its own source materials. proof is required for this.
 
Enjoy. Posted Image

#2
AntiChri5

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The covers are not cannon, they are advertising.



Advertising is usually wrong.

#3
InvincibleHero

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AntiChri5 wrote...

The covers are not cannon, they are advertising.

Advertising is usually wrong.


How so? Bioware approves of all advertising do they not? It doesn't have a disclaimer like so many do what is represented may not be the actual product. Posted Image

#4
adam_grif

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The canon policy of a given fictional universe is entirely up to the creators. Bioware has not layed out their canon. Cutscenes, Codex and Gameplay all contradict each other on numerous things. Which one of the three is the "most canonical" (i.e. overrides the others when contradictions happen) is unknown.

#5
AntiChri5

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Pretty sure i remember a trailer saying Grunt was four hundred years old.



Marketing is not canon.

#6
InvincibleHero

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adam_grif wrote...

The canon policy of a given fictional universe is entirely up to the creators. Bioware has not layed out their canon. Cutscenes, Codex and Gameplay all contradict each other on numerous things. Which one of the three is the "most canonical" (i.e. overrides the others when contradictions happen) is unknown.


I agree with that. People have said I don't undersatnd canon while providing no proof. Has BW ever said our gamebox art is not canon? Why would the actual gamebox not be considered canon lacking any denouncement from BW? I say it wouldn't.

I'd rather a new thread than continue OT in another. Posted Image

#7
InvincibleHero

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AntiChri5 wrote...

Pretty sure i remember a trailer saying Grunt was four hundred years old.

Marketing is not canon.


That can change as games tend to. However, I am talking actual finished released game boxes. If that isn't canon then nothing should be.

#8
AntiChri5

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Why would cover art be "canon"?



Game advertising is always misrepresentative.

#9
AntiChri5

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InvincibleHero wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Pretty sure i remember a trailer saying Grunt was four hundred years old.

Marketing is not canon.


That can change as games tend to. However, I am talking actual finished released game boxes. If that isn't canon then nothing should be.


What is the purpose of marketing?

#10
shoggoth1890

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I agree that cover art is not canon. Go to any bookstore and grab a book from general(not teen) fiction. Half the time it will have a cover that is an artistic interpretation of the contents, or a completely unrelated cover. The artists that are contracted for the work generally do not read the entire book if they do at all, and are not fully briefed on the universe.

#11
InvincibleHero

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shoggoth1890 wrote...

I agree that cover art is not canon. Go to any bookstore and grab a book from general(not teen) fiction. Half the time it will have a cover that is an artistic interpretation of the contents, or a completely unrelated cover. The artists that are contracted for the work generally do not read the entire book if they do at all, and are not fully briefed on the universe.


Except it is not a novel and you can use that exact "interpretation" of male Shepard in the game. It is the default for male gender. it uses their own created materials.

#12
Joram Talid

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what is the purpose of this thread?



the hashed out universe is canon. you(the player) dictate the actions and outcomes in hashed out universe.



what exactly are you getting at? i don't get what you are trying to say, at all.

#13
Guest_Mezzil_*

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Stop annoying people because you love that ugly Sheploo guy.

And here's a Bioware quote on this topic.

Chris Priestly wrote...

Correct. There is NO canon Shepard. It is up to the individual players to create their own Shepards.



Posted Image


http://social.biowar...index/2507120/1

#14
InvincibleHero

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Joram Talid wrote...

what is the purpose of this thread?

the hashed out universe is canon. you(the player) dictate the actions and outcomes in hashed out universe.

what exactly are you getting at? i don't get what you are trying to say, at all.


Simple even by a "non-canon definition" of canon provided by wikipedia considering Shepard male is not excluded by anything other than if the creator says so. However, doing so would be in direct source material.

It's a nice gesture saying we are our Shepard but then why Shepard not my real surname. They set name as canon so why not gender? Oh wait default is their and it is the male etc etc.

#15
didymos1120

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InvincibleHero wrote...

1. How people define canon here is in no offical dictionary. It is a malapropriation of the word.


There's no such thing as an "official" dictionary, despite the claims and futile efforts of certain governmental organizations. There are just dictionaries, some more complete than others, and they all lag behind current usage, no matter how unabridged they are.
 
As far as being a malappropriation...it's not.  It's a completely normal process that practically every word in every single language has undergone at some point, and will undergo in the future: acquiring new senses to fill a new need, and this sense of "canon" is derived directly from the notion of the biblical canon. I.e. what's "officially" the inspired word of God.  Or did you think all those numbered senses of all those other words found in dictionaries just sprang into existence the moment any given word was coined? 

#16
InvincibleHero

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Mezzil wrote...

Stop annoying people because you love that ugly Sheploo guy.

And here's a Bioware quote on this topic.

Chris Priestly wrote...

Correct. There is NO canon Shepard. It is up to the individual players to create their own Shepards.



Posted Image


http://social.biowar...index/2507120/1


Heh never use the default look myself. Chris is online marketing in the credits. Not a writer/creator. They are the ones that could set canon or not.

Also the my Shepard is canon is not correct that so many state on the boards.

#17
didymos1120

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InvincibleHero wrote...

It's a nice gesture saying we are our Shepard but then why Shepard not my real surname. They set name as canon so why not gender? Oh wait default is their and it is the male etc etc.


Why is the name invariant?  Because that IS canon.  Why is sex alterable? Or service history?  Or personal history? Because they  AREN'T canon.  It's really not that hard.  The existence of a default is irrelevant. 

#18
GodWood

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There is no bloody 'canon' Shepard.

#19
InvincibleHero

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didymos1120 wrote...

InvincibleHero wrote...

1. How people define canon here is in no offical dictionary. It is a malapropriation of the word.


There's no such thing as an "official" dictionary, despite the claims and futile efforts of certain governmental organizations. There are just dictionaries, some more complete than others, and they all lag behind current usage, no matter how unabridged they are.
 
As far as being a malappropriation...it's not.  It's a completely normal process that practically every word in every single language has undergone at some point, and will undergo in the future: acquiring new senses to fill a new need, and this sense of "canon" is derived directly from the notion of the biblical canon. I.e. what's "officially" the inspired word of God.  Or did you think all those numbered senses of all those other words found in dictionaries just sprang into existence the moment any given word was coined? 


You would have some validity except they always include words/usages from as little as 1 year ago. correct me if I'm wrong but canon was described for Star trek, star Wars, Dr. Who and even Sherlock Holmes which is over 100 years old. If Webster's, American Heritage, or any established printed dictionary hasn't accepted that interpretation of canon then it isn't proper yet.

#20
Guest_Mezzil_*

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InvincibleHero wrote...

Mezzil wrote...

Stop annoying people because you love that ugly Sheploo guy.

And here's a Bioware quote on this topic.

Chris Priestly wrote...

Correct. There is NO canon Shepard. It is up to the individual players to create their own Shepards.



Posted Image


http://social.biowar...index/2507120/1


Heh never use the default look myself. Chris is online marketing in the credits. Not a writer/creator. They are the ones that could set canon or not.

Also the my Shepard is canon is not correct that so many state on the boards.


Ok but writer Patrick Weekes says the same thing-
"We do not have a Canonical Shepard. "
http://meforums.biow...forum=144&sp=30

#21
SithLordExarKun

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Theres no "canon" shepard in the ME universe, deal with it. This isn't like KOTOR when theres an actual established canon by lucasarts(revan being male, being lightsided, romancing bastila).

#22
didymos1120

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InvincibleHero wrote...
You would have some validity except they always include words/usages from as little as 1 year ago. correct me if I'm wrong but canon was described for Star trek, star Wars, Dr. Who and even Sherlock Holmes which is over 100 years old. If Webster's, American Heritage, or any established printed dictionary hasn't accepted that interpretation of canon then it isn't proper yet.


You don't seem to understand that dictionaries DO NOT define a language. They never have and they never will.  All they can do is define some of the words in a language, and then only approximately and partially.  Ever-changing usage is what truly defines a language and always has and always will, the ceasless lamentatations of prescriptivists about what is "proper" notwithstanding.

Think about it:  established dictionaries are a relatively recent phenomenon.  If we follow your logic, no word in any language was "proper" until it got an entry in an established dictionary (BTW, what criteria qualify any given dictionary as "established"?) and no word in any language which currently lacks an established dictionary is "proper". That is just silly.

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 janvier 2011 - 07:24 .


#23
didymos1120

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Mezzil wrote...
Ok but writer Patrick Weekes says the same thing-
"We do not have a Canonical Shepard. "
http://meforums.biow...forum=144&sp=30


That's worth a full quote:

I believe other devs have talked more eloquently than I can about the difference between Iconic Shepard and Canonical Shepard.

We have an Iconic Shepard. He has a specific face. He's there for branding purposes. We can, if necessary for marketing purposes, make assumptions about his backstory (usually Earthborn, Sole Survivor, if I remember right). He is Iconic Shepard in the same way that Lidda the Halfling was Third Edition D&D's Iconic Rogue. Lidda didn't mean that my human swashbuckling guy (with no lockpicking ability to speak of, but excellent skills at lying and gathering intel and hiding and being reduced rapidly to negative hit points) was any less valid, and Iconic Shepard doesn't mean anything about your playthrough.

We do not have a Canonical Shepard. Even if you don't import a game, and start fresh in ME2, you will get to pick your gender, your class, and other important characteristics. There's likely to be a quick-start button, just as there was in ME1, and anyone who wants to can use it, but Mass Effect will always support you making the Shepard you choose.



#24
Ryzaki

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The hilarity of iconic Shepard being a SS and there being practically no mention of Akuze in ME2 is not lost on me.

#25
JKoopman

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Why is this something people are even arguing? Why does there need to be a canonical Shepard for some (shall we say, unimaginative) people? Can they just not handle that ZOMG in some people's universes Shepard is a girl and romances dudes and that kinda makes their Shepard gay in some ill-conceived, vaguely homophobic, cross-dimensional sort of way? What exactly is the problem here?

There's a reason why the novels never go into much detail on Shepard.

Modifié par JKoopman, 24 janvier 2011 - 07:34 .