409 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

Xayasha wrote...
I do appreciate that there are many paths to choose from, like most players, and I'm glad you don't just look at numbers to make your decisions. But if I try to put myself in the shoes of a company who has to make profit/be successful and whatnot, I'd take such a strong statistic (5-95%) strongly into account; you don't want to spend too much of your budget on a feature most people won't get to enjoy, right?

To a degree, yes. Like I said earlier, it does raise the idea that maybe there should only have been one dwarf origin rather than two-- but it's hard to say. You can't play everything by the numbers.

AlanC9 wrote...
I hope every future Bio game fails as badly as ME2 did.

Sure... may they all fail as badly as ME2 with its excellent sales and near-universal critical acclaim. How terrible that would be, without a doubt.

Modifié par David Gaider, 25 janvier 2011 - 05:13 .

[Miri1984]

David Gaider wrote...


I said this in an interview recently, but I think there's some appreciation among RPG players for knowing that a path exists-- whether or not they actually chose to take it. 

Oh absolutely, I have to agree here. I don't have a bucket of time these days, and DA:O is my absolute favourite game, but I have never, for example, played Brosca the entire way through. Not because I don't like the origin (indeed, I think Brosca is possibly the BEST origin, apart from the fact that I'm addicted to mages), but because, quite simply, I got to Brosca last and I haven't had the time to finish that particular playthrough. Likewise, I never finished my Dalish. It doesn't mean I never will, or that I like them any less.

[MDarwin]

Well I played all Races/classes and Gender in DAO. The most intresting one was for me the Dalish Elf one. Reason why I did so: For Role playing. The Dialog option do get wanting after Ostegar. But still, I enjoyed them all, even as a Dwarf.

[Maria Caliban]

AlanC9 wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...
I for one am less then thrilled about the new design decisions of DA2 gameplay, which surely were made based on this Datamining. And i do expect DA2 to fall Short behind DA:O, just like Masseffect 2 came up way short for the same streamlining behind Masseffect 1.

I hope every future Bio game fails as badly as ME2 did.

I loved Christina Norman's 'No Sacred Cows' bit. ME 2 was so much better for it.

[stephen1493]

To sum it up, I believe that they are saying that they recognized that the Number was surprising and It will be taken into account for future work, but that is not to say that the number will deter them for taking the risks that they are known to take with their games. It's nothing definitive, but it has certainly been noticed.

If I am wrong in that belief, then may I burn forever in flame bait hell.

Modifié par stephen1493, 25 janvier 2011 - 05:30 .

[Soul Cool]

David Gaider wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
I hope every future Bio game fails as badly as ME2 did.

Sure... may they all fail as badly as ME2 with its excellent sales and near-universal critical acclaim. How terrible that would be, without a doubt.

I'll take that kind of failure any day.

[Bryy_Miller]

AlanC9 wrote...

Kajan451 wrote...
I for one am less then thrilled about the new design decisions of DA2 gameplay, which surely were made based on this Datamining. And i do expect DA2 to fall Short behind DA:O, just like Masseffect 2 came up way short for the same streamlining behind Masseffect 1.

I hope every future Bio game fails as badly as ME2 did.

Alan, it's no fun if even devs start reacting to you like you're in earnest. I think the experiment failed.

[David Gaider]

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Alan, it's no fun if even devs start reacting to you like you're in earnest. I think the experiment failed.

I failed my Detect Sarcasm roll? And here I thought I was fluent.

Modifié par David Gaider, 25 janvier 2011 - 05:49 .

[shnizzler93]

David Gaider wrote...

I am thankful that you devs think about us and take the time out of your workday to talk to us. Makes you seem more relatable and human.

[In Exile]

David Gaider wrote...

I said this in an interview recently, but I think there's some appreciation among RPG players for knowing that a path exists-- whether or not they actually chose to take it. You do have to couple that with the knowledge of just how many people are actually making those choices, as well, but that's just one piece of the puzzle.

At least for me, that's absolutely part of why I enjoy RPGs. I have never seen 100% of the story paths in any Bioware game to date. Yet nevertheless those paths were crucial to my enjoyment. Knowing, for example, I could betray Shani in the CE Origin makes the choice not to betray her meaningful for me. It lets me define my character in a real way.

[Soul Cool]

David Gaider wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Alan, it's no fun if even devs start reacting to you like you're in earnest. I think the experiment failed.

I failed my Detect Sarcasm roll? And here I thought I was fluent.

Critical failure, minus five penalty to intelligence for an unspecified amount of time.

*points* A wizard did it.

[Eclipse_9990]

My personal canon is a Human Mage. So.. Yeah..

[Miri1984]

David Gaider wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Alan, it's no fun if even devs start reacting to you like you're in earnest. I think the experiment failed.

I failed my Detect Sarcasm roll? And here I thought I was fluent.

Sometimes you fail even when you've maxed out the stat .

[tigrina]

Heh. After reading some through this thread, I'm quite surprised at the numbers.

While my first play through was indeed a human (mage), this is usually not the case. I just had a very hard time getting a decent face on my elf. As it is, I wouldn't play a warrior unless I don't have a choice. I also love dwarves, both the origins and how they look.

I'm not sure how many games I started (a *lot*, part of that translates to the character creator having extremely bad lighting and not enough zoom, for me), but I played through all origins (and enjoyed them).

On the not so fun side, I don't like the ending much, which means I didn't replay for months, dreading that part. I only started playing again a few days ago.

/for non-statistical-fishbowl-input

Modifié par tigrina, 25 janvier 2011 - 06:06 .

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...

Xayasha wrote...
Of course it doesn't show our degree of appreciation for our different playthroughs, but it does mean something when 95% of players don't even try an origin...

I said this in an interview recently, but I think there's some appreciation among RPG players for knowing that a path exists-- whether or not they actually chose to take it. You do have to couple that with the knowledge of just how many people are actually making those choices, as well, but that's just one piece of the puzzle. So long as we're not making our decisions based solely on numbers, it's not a bad thing-- and we haven't, just to be clear. As someone else pointed out above, there are numerous factors that go into any major design decision, and info like that acquired from telemetry should be used as support only.

I'm glad to hear that.  I mean, I assumed you guys would know this, being smart and witty and all that, but it's nice to hear it actually iterated.

I almost never make evil / bad decisions in games.  I think KotOR ruined any curiousity I had for trying the "dark side" of RPGs after how guilty and sick I feel about what I did to poor Mission - still to this day.

Ok, to be fair, it was my start of my "evil" Fallout 3 run that made me put the game away for over year because I couldn't even look at it anymore that absolutely ended even the most tiny bit of desire to see the bad stuff...

BUT

I am extremely glad the options are there.  Not only for those who want to play jerks and sadists and the like, but more so because having the CHOICE makes me choosing to be good mean something when I could have chosen to be bad.

If you take a game like Oblivion, or even something like Too Human, I'm never going to try out even a quarter of the possible options as I won't want to replay the game that many times... but the fact that I had to character options to choose from made the game all the more interesting and fun for me.

Every option I don't choose just reinforces the feeling that I made a real choice with the options I do take.

Modifié par MerinTB, 25 janvier 2011 - 07:27 .

[Bryy_Miller]

David Gaider wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...
Alan, it's no fun if even devs start reacting to you like you're in earnest. I think the experiment failed.

I failed my Detect Sarcasm roll? And here I thought I was fluent.

Poe's Theory wins again.

[TurboTwistedFire]

David Gaider wrote...To a degree, yes. Like I said earlier, it does raise the idea that maybe there should only have been one dwarf origin rather than two-- but it's hard to say. You can't play everything by the numbers.

Aww but both of the dwarf stories were
awesome and, if anything, they definitely provided a fabulous way for
the player to experience both extreme aspects of Orzammar. We got to
see first hand how life is like for the dwarfs who live at the top of
the top and for the ones who are at the bottom of the barrel.

[_Aine_]

MerinTB wrote...

I almost never make evil / bad decisions in games.  I think KotOR ruined any curiousity I had for trying the "dark side" of RPGs after how guilty and sick I feel about what I did to poor Mission - still to this day.

Ok, to be fair, it was my start of my "evil" Fallout 3 run that made me put the game away for over year because I couldn't even look at it anymore that absolutely ended even the most tiny bit of desire to see the bad stuff...

BUT

I am extremely glad the options are there.  Not only for those who want to play jerks and sadists and the like, but more so because having the CHOICE makes me choosing to be good mean something when I could have chosen to be bad.

 

Every option I don't choose just reinforces the feeling that I made a real choice with the options I do take.

First, I apologise for having a bit of a chuckle at your lasting guilt.  I only laugh because it is comforting to know I am not the only one who has felt like that after a video game.    In ME2 I had little trouble with some renegade options. Seriously, she sounded pretty butch and serious anyway, it fit. Plus, some people just lie.  I am in a hurry to save the world,  a pistol whip to speed things up seemed in good form for her.  BUT, and it is a big but,  if the writing is good...to the point where regardless of being another character part of the REAL YOU is engaged and present in the story also...man, that can hurt.  

This past summer I played Heavy Rain.  I tried to be pragmatic and keep the mission as the focus blah blah.  Long story short: I basically assassinated someone in a setting and situation (don't want to say too much for those who haven't played it) that physically made me sick to my stomach.  Yes, he was a waste of a life to the world, but the reminders of those who disagreed....    I stewed about it for days.  I could never finish the game LOL  I had to put it away.      I consider that a great game even though I never did finish it but...man. lol 

DA:O was made richer through options.  You know, those choices that YOU personally would never pick (but you *could!*.  Even if they didn't *actually* change the end result, the choice, or the illusion of choice - the way things could change peoples opinions of you.... ALL really good.  Knowing I could have a brand new experience in a game I loved as ALL the races.  THAT enriched the experience.  Playing them, yes did too. I never did finish my dwarf play through despite it being my absolute favorite!  there were other factors that were just too jarring.  I am attempting it this week though once I finish my dalish archer  

I personally don't consider it a *waste* of time or money at all to appeal to a minority.  In fact, those options, the multiple paths is what I consider to be one of the great strengths of DA:O.  Playing all the origins weaves the story backgrounds for you, in real time, expanding your knowledge, like taking part in a living history book.   I think even to the people who didn't actively play them, *knowing* they were there makes it feel like you could go back and play again -- keep it on your drive. 

Maybe numbers can't show you those things ( and people like me creating zillions of humans in the toolset for forum avatar purposes alone skewing the numbers lol) but sometimes it isn't an obvious thing that can be easily quantified that makes something unique and, well, special.  

Modifié par shantisands, 25 janvier 2011 - 02:52 .

[Mr_Steph]

 LoL I only played as a human about 20% of the time 

And I was a female rogue most of the time too 

Going against the stats...nice 

[snackrat]

I've played humans ONLY to test out different endings, dialogues, etc. Initially I usually played elf but now I normally play dwarf.

[Arthur Cousland]

I liked my main character as a human mainly because if there is a "default origin", then human noble is it.  Npcs all over recognized my hn as a Cousland, and the landsmeet was especially nice, with some of the nobles not only recognizing my character, but offering to assist with taking back Highever.

I hope Bioware didn't leave out the non-human origins because they thought that no one played them.  I've been a fan of dwarves in any videogame that had them, from Origins to Everquest, and of course I liked Gimli in LotR.  I liked playing as a dwarf noble and commoner in Origins.  The only thing that I didn't like was how as a non-human, my warden felt somewhat like an outcast when humans were everywhere, and it certainly felt odd playing as a dwarven templar.

Perhaps DA3 could bring back origin choices, even if it's just three, or one for each race?  It adds greatly to replayability when you can play a new character who sees the game in a different way, when npcs recognize your character as a dwarf or elf and recact differently than if your pc was a human.  Also, tanking as a dwarf against enemies much larger than my pc never gets old, especially when it's against a dragon.

Modifié par Arthur Cousland, 25 janvier 2011 - 03:21 .

[TMZuk]

Andrastee wrote...

This came up in another thread, and I was curious: quite some time ago, a developer (I think it was David Gaider?) mentioned that data from DAO showed that only a small percentage of players ever played as anything other than a human, and that dwarves were especially neglected. Does anyone remember what the stated percentage was, or what thread that was in?

I played through as human noble, male and female, Dalish elf male, city elf female. Dwarves are not my thing.

Those data is worth very little, IMO. I am never playing DA:O online. and I always disable achievements. It's a singleplayer game. If they wish to know something about how I play and what I want, they can ask me.

Modifié par TMZuk, 25 janvier 2011 - 03:08 .

[rabidhanar]

Also though this does give you some information on who plays what, you have to factor: the size of the game (can take 60 hours), the repetitive gameplay, the amount of gamers who are hardcore rpg fans, the players who quit a playthrough or start over because they do not like how the MC looks, the people who rent DAO (hard to beat the game in a week for most), the physical attributes of the species (human average, elf smaller, dwarf miniscule), and the class decisions.



For classes, it looks odd for an elf to be a warrior, especially a two hander...A human can be all classes...no issue there.



Not to mention the pain of rerunning through the entire game multiple times...It takes forever and the species hardly make a difference.

[BTCentral]

Personally, my first playthrough was as a male Human noble.
Since then all the other characters I have used have been a different race (I have played all Origin stories).

[jwalker]

I made 4 full runs in DA:O



Male human warrior

Female city elf rogue (favorite)

Female dwarf commoner warrior

Female dalish elf rogue

And I started a fifth, a male dwarf noble warrior. Didn't finish it (2H build didn't cut it).

I'm planning another female city elf rogue to import to DA2.



I always play offline.... so none of this got to BW....