409 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

marquiseondore wrote...
I wonder if the data is from completed playthroughs. 

As I already said, the data is collected from all playthroughs-- completed or not. We can tell how many unique accounts played the game, didn't finish, started several times, finished several times, etc. The parsing on the telemetry is pretty sophisticated, as I understand it, it just needs for us to ask the right questions.

Again, it's not the end-all and be-all with regards to future decisions-- but it does give us a pretty clear picture of what people are doing and not doing, if not why. A better picture, certainly, than simply the people that come to these forums. While many people here express an acknowledgement of the fact they are in the statistical minority when it comes to their play habits, I think there's a bit of a fishbowl effect going on at times... people on these forums (or on the internet, on other gaming sites) only see opinions similar to their own being reflected, so it reinforces their idea that they're the only ones that exist. This does not, by any means, make their opinions insignificant-- but I think it does offer some perspective for us as developers as well.

[Sandtigress]

David Gaider wrote...

 Such figures are beneficial only in terms of not talking about what the players will do or not do based on assumptions (a lot more players played the same-sex romances than we had originally assumed, for instance), while at the same time recognizing that it shouldn't form the entirety of the basis for our decisions.

lol That romance stat might be based on Leliana ninja-romancing....  

But a proud Dalish player here!  As if that weren't obvious...

[ReallyRue]

Wow, I'm surprised there wasn't as much love for non-humans. I already am a human, that makes me less interested in playing a human.

I played each Origin (some more than once with a different sex), but my favourite tended to be elves - mage and Dalish in particular. I enjoy triumphing over those you oppress you and showing them you're so much better! I also loved the Dwarf Commoner playthrough, because it's a similar theme, if not even more oppressive. The one that interested me least - but seemed to be most people's favourite - was the Human Noble. Pampered noble's family is killed, seeks revenge, becomes queen? Blah. I made her romance Leliana instead of Alistair because I didn't want that same old, same old feel.

[In Exile]

Maria Caliban wrote...
It's an opt-out system. It starts checked.

You're right. I just opted out so fast I've encoded it as opt-in instead of out. Like how I forget there was a quest arrow or whatever.

David Gaidner wrote...
A better picture, certainly, than simply the people that come to these
forums. While many people here express an acknowledgement of the fact
they are in the statistical minority when it comes to their play habits,
I think there's a bit of a fishbowl effect going on at times... people
on these forums (or on the internet, on other gaming sites) only see
opinions similar to their own being reflected, so it reinforces their
idea that they're the only ones that exist.

People actually seem to naturally tend to believe their opinion is overrepresented. If you have people make a decision and then estimate what % of people will make the same decision (under a wide variety of contexts) people will estimate the majority will act as they do.

Modifié par In Exile, 24 janvier 2011 - 05:05 .

[marquiseondore]

David Gaider wrote...

Russalka wrote...
But how much will this knowledge shape any games developed in the future?

Hard to say. Just because, say, only 5% of players ever played a dwarven origin does that mean we shouldn't do one again? Does that mean we couldn't perhaps do them better, make it more appealing? It's a bit of a chicken-and-egg argument. Looking at the data, however, I would think it'd be reasonable to say our efforts would have been more rewarded had we done, say, only one dwarven origin and did another human origin instead (ignoring the hindsight aspect entirely, of course). Such figures are beneficial only in terms of not talking about what the players will do or not do based on assumptions (a lot more players played the same-sex romances than we had originally assumed, for instance), while at the same time recognizing that it shouldn't form the entirety of the basis for our decisions.

I found both dwarven orgins to be my favorite despite playing a human more often.  My DC had the most emotional payoff at the end with the US.  It's the only Origin I've only been able to side with Bhelen.

[Gorskijesih]

I'm surprised to see such low numbers of dwarven players. I genuinely thought the dwarf noble origin was the best of the bunch.

Modifié par Gorskijesih, 24 janvier 2011 - 10:17 .

[seif9]

I myself loved the Dwarf origins and my "canon" warden is a male dwarf noble warrior. To be honest i never actually cared for the human noble origin it just always seemed so boring compared to the dwarf origins and even the city elf and mage origins (the only one i found even worse was the dalish)

[In Exile]

Gorskijesih wrote...

I'm surprised to see such low numbers of dwarven player. I genuinely thought the dwarf noble origin was the best of the bunch.

I did too. But I just don't like dwarves aesthetically. I can't connect to a dwarf PC visually. I have never been able to RP a dwarf character as a result whenever an alternative was available. In DA:O, I actually had the same problem with the elves. It was just impossible to design I face I would like, and if I can't do that, my ability to connect to the game really suffers.

ReallyRue wrote...

Wow, I'm surprised there wasn't as much
love for non-humans. I already am a human, that makes me less
interested in playing a human.

I look at it this way: all the races are humans, really. They just happen to look different. But no particular fantasy race is that alien.

For me, race is more of an aesthetic choice than anything (unless a game pulls of really dramatic story consequences for it, and to be fair DA:O only had highly specific origin content in a few areas of the entire game post-origin).

[errant_knight]

Maria Caliban wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...

I think most people would choose a human first to become King or Queen.

Most people wouldn't know that being human first would lead to being king or queen.

errant_knight wrote...

*learns lesson* Guess I better log in if I want to be counted, huh? Heh, I didn't realize that I was neglecting to vote. Too late for DA:O, I guess....

*looks at your achievements*

I think you were counted. I don't think you have to be logged in while playing as the information is stored until it's sent.

I might be wrong.

Well, I logged on for part of my first playthrough, but since I thought that was only about achievements, I stopped bothering. The only time I logged on since was to download DLC. Perhaps more data was uploaded then? Heh, I should look at my achievements and see what it says, never have.
EDIT: Um...where are those? Oh wait...found it.

Modifié par errant_knight, 24 janvier 2011 - 05:22 .

[ErichHartmann]

I have only played human (Cousland) from beginning to end; its my preferred choice. Played the dwarf and elf origins but didn't go beyond after I reached Ostagar.

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 24 janvier 2011 - 05:20 .

[Huntress]

I played all, but I fell in love with the dalish elf and the Human Noble.



Maybe I see them as more tragical characters.. Dwarf are great both sides of the story but, I don't like how they walk.. is just me tho, nothing wrong with them.



For Mages, I loved to play one, but I get so bored so fast that delete them and start another Human or elf. I have play origens so many times and still no bored.

[PrinceOfFallout13]

i have all achievements on 360 including dlc and all the trophies on ps3 i only liked playing human simply because dwarves are too short and elves have no meat on their bones (yes im that picky and obviously beards )

[_Aine_]

I would have been dwarf far more often if it weren't for the run animation. I felt like a smurf. The story itself though, I just loved. It is also possible the romance #'s may have been skewed because of achievements.

[Seagloom]

David Gaider wrote...

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe you had to toggle it off in order to not be counted. By default you sent your telemetry in.

I see. Since it was ages ago that I fiddled with it, I should not be surprised over my error.

[hangmans tree]

David Gaider wrote...

I suspect that most people, when selecting their race/origin, didn't really have much to base that decision off of other than their base preference for how a race looks and the written blurb-- if they read it.

Again, is that indicative of anything? There are a lot of reasons a player might choose to do something and you don't want to make assumptions about their motivation. And just because a minority of players finish a game doesn't mean you don't put in an ending. Still, it's better to work from hard data than conjecture or anecdotal evidence when citing preferences of the player base as a whole.

I would say, and this is solely my own opinion, that there is a lot to work on another origins iteration. As if they are not cool enough. But cool is such an empty word.
Facegen and concept - has to be interesting, captivatig and have unique features. Maybe the presentation was at fault? Maybe it was all too common and seen it all before? Eg I realy like to play elven race but couldnt find myself to do it in Origins. That tells me elves artistic presentation (coz I was really pulled in by the story and background), didnt appeal to me. Many a times I wondered: why?

For some time now DnD and Warhammer elves reign supreme. It would be a nice change of pace to do it slightly different, or with an edge, curve.
The same goes for dwarves.

[errant_knight]

Seagloom wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Unless I'm mistaken, I believe you had to toggle it off in order to not be counted. By default you sent your telemetry in.

I see. Since it was ages ago that I fiddled with it, I should not be surprised over my error.

Oops, I think I did this to keep it from changing my Avatar unless I wanted it to.... That explains it. LOL, thinks I've only had 2 characters, 14 injuries, and 582 kills! That's OLD data.... I'll do something about that....

[HTTP 404]

I have played and beaten DA:O 5 times. Only one of those playthroughs were with an elf. I played both dwarf origin stories but that was about it. but I may be a minority in the forums in choosing exclusivly humans but I bet Im in the majority outside of the forums

[Shevy]

I have two friends who bought Origins and never finished one origin. I think that kind of players are in the majority.

We here are such a small part, the freaks so to say ( in a good way). I finished Origins about 6 times, have all achievements. But I have to admit, that I never finished it with a dwarf. I played the origins, the commoner even was my first origin, but I couldn't identify myself with theirs looks and attitudes.

[AlexXIV]

Tbh. I don't like this 'gathering information' thing Bioware did with DA:O. I turned it off as soon as I learned it is there. My fav is female dalish warrior, but I played almost every origin. However my problem with this data collecting system is that it for example doesn't tell which playthrough was the most rewarding, most liked one. It's like watching people at what they do and then assuming it's what they want to do. I find that quite naive and superficial.

[Eveangaline]

Dwarf was my first and favorite, then the elves, then my human mage.

[AlexXIV]

Shevy_001 wrote...

I have two friends who bought Origins and never finished one origin. I think that kind of players are in the majority.
We here are such a small part, the freaks so to say ( in a good way). I finished Origins about 6 times, have all achievements. But I have to admit, that I never finished it with a dwarf. I played the origins, the commoner even was my first origin, but I couldn't identify myself with theirs looks and attitudes.

Huh. I assume if someone didn't finish it (for other reasons than not enough time to play) then I'd assume they didn't like the game. And if that'd be true for the majority of people who bought it then I'd wonder how many of those buy a sequel just to dislike it aswell.

[Addai]

Gorskijesih wrote...

I'm surprised to see such low numbers of dwarven player. I genuinely thought the dwarf noble origin was the best of the bunch.

It is, but I found it hard to roleplay a dwarf.  Just don't get into dwarf theme as much, not only in DA but other fandoms as well.  My Lady Aeducan is sitting at level 14 or so, which is the furthest I've gotten with a dwarf.  I love having them around, though- some of my favorite NPCs.

My husband played human noble and human mage a lot, so our numbers contributed to the majority I guess.  I never finished the game as an Amell.

[David Gaider]

AlexXIV wrote...
Tbh. I don't like this 'gathering information' thing Bioware did with DA:O. I turned it off as soon as I learned it is there. My fav is female dalish warrior, but I played almost every origin. However my problem with this data collecting system is that it for example doesn't tell which playthrough was the most rewarding, most liked one. It's like watching people at what they do and then assuming it's what they want to do. I find that quite naive and superficial.

We're not making any assumptions about what they did and didn't like-- only what they did. They can't have a favorite if it's something they didn't play, after all. We can tell what choices people made at the various plot points, at what point people stopped playing the game... things like that can be very helpful, so long as you're not ascribing motivations to those players that may not hold up. What would be naive and superficial is basing one decisions completely on anecdotal evidence and assuming that holds true for the whole, or assuming that "those other players" don't count simply because they don't come onto the internet to sound off on their opinions. We can lead a horse to water, after all, but we can't make him think.

[marquiseondore]

David Gaider wrote...

marquiseondore wrote...
I wonder if the data is from completed playthroughs. 

As I already said, the data is collected from all playthroughs-- completed or not. We can tell how many unique accounts played the game, didn't finish, started several times, finished several times, etc. The parsing on the telemetry is pretty sophisticated, as I understand it, it just needs for us to ask the right questions.

Again, it's not the end-all and be-all with regards to future decisions-- but it does give us a pretty clear picture of what people are doing and not doing, if not why. A better picture, certainly, than simply the people that come to these forums. While many people here express an acknowledgement of the fact they are in the statistical minority when it comes to their play habits, I think there's a bit of a fishbowl effect going on at times... people on these forums (or on the internet, on other gaming sites) only see opinions similar to their own being reflected, so it reinforces their idea that they're the only ones that exist. This does not, by any means, make their opinions insignificant-- but I think it does offer some perspective for us as developers as well.

So much easier if you had the answer to ask the right question. 

I don't know about anyone else but I come here to complain critique, congregate and see if there is any news.  Forums are fishbowls but so are focus groups.  Except forcus groups are handpicked fishbowls.