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[tvr321]

 First off, I understand that this thread has probably been posted x times already, but if it wasn't for the same old arguments, forums wouldn't exist.


So anyway, I have been replaying ME2 to get my perfect playthrough in preparation for ME3. 
However, I've come to this and I really don't know what to do.

- I could potentially be throwing away a massive resource. And for all the "indoctrination" parrots, how can you say that without knowing for sure? It's true that the base could be the key to saving the galaxy.
On one hand, no matter what all the blind idealists say, I truly believe the illusive man will use the base as he says he will, to stop the reapers and save humanity, he doesn't seem interested in the path Saren chose. I think he will stay true to Cerberus's goal. The question is, will he take it too far?
He obviously doesn't give a **** about anything other than humanity's,( synonym of Cerberus for him) power. If the base does help defeat the reapers, will Cerberus emerge as a dominant force in the galaxy? IMO, Cerberus has always worked best working under the radar, they are not fit to govern, the illusive man definitely isn't. 
I'm worried this is giving TIM too much power. He is obviously only looking out for humanity's interests, and whilst I can understand this from his perspective, I don't like the idea of how the galaxy would be reshaped.


- I explained some of the arguments against saving the base in the above paragraph, the main one being that it could amplify Cerberus' power and influence too far. 
Destroying the base is the idealistic view, and things usually seem to turn out pretty well for idealistic Sheperd in the game, so purely from a fictional viewpoint, destroying the base seems like the right choice. 
Also, if the base is saved, the growing power of humanity and Cerberus might alienate (get it? lol) the other races and hamper the possiblity of them rallying to Sheperd and forming an alliance. 
I think it is Legion who argues that you should find your own path to technology, not tread a path already laid out. The "heretics" did this in accepting aid from the reapers, and look how it turned out for them.
Is the base not an extention of the reaper's technology in the way that the mass relays and the citadel are, and they are intending to cause organic life to develop along the pathes the reapers intend. 

And LOL @ my Sheperd running through this in his head during the few seconds he has to chooseB)

Modifié par tvr321, 24 janvier 2011 - 05:42 .

[dgcatanisiri]

It's Legion's argument that I tend to come back to, particularly when you realize that ALL technology that is used in Citadel space travel is based on mass effects. This technology was intentionally left by the Reapers to force evolution on a similar path - they already know the ins and outs of their technology. Instead of hoping that the toys they've left behind and the technology that they created will provide a clue on how to defeat them, they need to create their own alternatives, weapons that aren't reliant on the mass effects, perhaps even alternate forms of FTL drives because it's something the Reapers are unfamiliar with and don't have a defense for.

[CmdrKankrelat]

We won't be able to decide what a "perfect" playthrough is until we know all the in's and out's of ME3, so right now you have to go with your gut. I say look at your Shepard's morality: if you've been Paragon or mostly so, blow up the base (satisfying explosion). If you've been Renegade or mostly so, sterilize it (nice blue glow). If you've been Paragade, then blow it up regardless, if for nothing else than the awesome explosion.

[gogman25]

Quick point - using reaper tech further progress us down the route the reapers wish.

So yeah...even if we destroy the reapers we may end up recreating them accidently and KABLAMO.

WE WOOSE!

[chris025657]

tvr321 wrote...
- I could potentially be throwing away a massive resource. And for all the "indoctrination" parrots, how can you say that without knowing for sure? 

I've always thought that Cerberus was the best group to deal with the threat of indoctrination, if it does exist. Cerberus is currently one of the only groups that recognizes the true extent of the threat of indoctrination and would be the best prepared to take steps against it. They've learned this lesson the hard way through the derelict Reaper. 

Besides, wouldn't it be useful to study indoctrination? Even after the Reapers successfully ambushed the Protheans, they still chose to infiltrate the remaining colonies with the indoctrinated. Indoctrination is clearly an important tool of the Reapers and studying it could be valuable. 

On one hand, no matter what all the blind idealists say, I truly believe the illusive man will use the base as he says he will, to stop the reapers and save humanity, he doesn't seem interested in the path Saren chose. I think he will stay true to Cerberus's goal.
He obviously doesn't give a **** about anything other than humanity's,( synonym of Cerberus for him) power. If the base does help defeat the reapers, will Cerberus emerge as a dominant force in the galaxy? IMO, Cerberus has always worked best working under the radar, they are not fit to govern, the illusive man definitely isn't. 
I'm worried this is giving TIM too much power. He is obviously only looking out for humanity's interests, and whilst I can understand this from his perspective, I don't like the idea of how the galaxy would be reshaped. 

TIM has more than demonstrated his desire to defeat the Reapers. I haven't seen any evidence to suggest TIM is interested in power or conquest. I've also never equated human dominance with the oppression or subjugation of other species. That's not to say I fully trust him, I just think he's committed against the Reapers. 

Also, if the base is saved, the growing power of humanity and Cerberus might alienate (get it? lol) the other races and hamper the possiblity of them rallying to Sheperd and forming an alliance. 

I think TIM is interested in galactic stability and strength in the face of the Reaper threat. This is why he monitors the political situations of the Quarians, Geth, and Krogan. I don't think he would take any intentionally destabilizing moves.

I think it is Legion who argues that you should find your own path to technology, not tread a path already laid out. The "heretics" did this in accepting aid from the reapers, and look how it turned out for them.
Is the base not an extention of the reaper's technology in the way that the mass relays and the citadel are, and they are intending to cause organic life to develop along the pathes the reapers intend. 

It would be a terrible story if this was the direction the writers were taking. It has already been repeatably demonstrated in ME 1 and 2 that an understanding of Reaper technology can disrupt their plans or be very useful against them.

It was a Prothean understanding of Reaper mass relay technology and the Reaper process of activating the Citadel that prevented total genocide in ME 1. Studying the Reapers gave us EDI, thanix cannons, and the means to capture or destroy the Collector base.

The "paths the Reapers desire" involved the extermination of all sentient life with the activation of the Citadel. This was already disrupted. 

Modifié par chris025657, 24 janvier 2011 - 07:20 .

[LorDC]

gogman25 wrote...

Quick point - using reaper tech further progress us down the route the reapers wish.
So yeah...even if we destroy the reapers we may end up recreating them accidently and KABLAMO.
WE WOOSE!

I was always wondering what is "Reapers path" that CB could push us onto. Is it that us using some particular piece of technology found at CB will make it easier for them to win? Why didn't they just spread this technology through with Collectors?
And if "Reapers path" means some general set of Reaper technology then what is alternative? We can't just get another physics out of our pockets.

[Bigdoser]

Just choose what you feel best with. I blew it up since cerb keeps calling me for janitor jobs if you want me to hand over reaper tech please don't screw up expriments that almost doom the galaxy and then and only then I will consider giving them useful tech in the future.

[LorDC]

Bigdoser wrote...

Just choose what you feel best with. I blew it up since cerb keeps calling me for janitor jobs if you want me to hand over reaper tech please don't screw up expriments that almost doom the galaxy and then and only then I will consider giving them useful tech in the future.

So Shepard is screwed? I wonder when we will be sent to destroy Normandy(you know they used Reaper tech when created it and Shepard voluntarily installed Thannix on it).

Seriously. How can you call "inept" organization that was around for 30 years and is wealthy enough to pull projects like Lazarus or Normandy SR-2 on it's own? If they screwed up that often they would have to shut down all operations long ago. As for why they send you to clea the mess answer is really easy. That's your job. And that's why you don't hear about their success. It's not your job. You don't say that every man in the galaxy has a problem that only Shepard can solve just because 90% NPCs in game want to you to do something, right?

[Exiled Eagle]

It's Bioware. Your choices aren't going to have any real consequence. You might as well close your eyes and play eeny meeny miny mo with all the choices.

[Bigdoser]

LorDC wrote...

Bigdoser wrote...

Just choose what you feel best with. I blew it up since cerb keeps calling me for janitor jobs if you want me to hand over reaper tech please don't screw up expriments that almost doom the galaxy and then and only then I will consider giving them useful tech in the future.

So Shepard is screwed? I wonder when we will be sent to destroy Normandy(you know they used Reaper tech when created it and Shepard voluntarily installed Thannix on it).

Seriously. How can you call "inept" organization that was around for 30 years and is wealthy enough to pull projects like Lazarus or Normandy SR-2 on it's own? If they screwed up that often they would have to shut down all operations long ago. As for why they send you to clea the mess answer is really easy. That's your job. And that's why you don't hear about their success. It's not your job. You don't say that every man in the galaxy has a problem that only Shepard can solve just because 90% NPCs in game want to you to do something, right?

I think the very fact that they almost caused a technological apocalypse and doomed the galaxy outranks anything else, If I have a chance I would replace TIM with miranda. This is just my opinion from what I gathred from overlord TIM is impatient and miranda has the required   patience to do these kind of projects. As I said soon as I see the chance to replace TIM with miranda I will do it.

Modifié par Bigdoser, 24 janvier 2011 - 08:21 .

[Spartas Husky]

A- The very very first time I passed the game I stood there literally for 5-7 minutes thinking. I even went to the bathroomm to think over my throne.



if only EDI had not told the Illusive man I would have kept it, to give it later on to someone I could trust.



But since the Illusive Man knew... it was give it to him... or destroy it. No man can't give it to TIM...

[LorDC]

Bigdoser wrote...
I think the very fact that they almost caused a technological apocalypse and doomed the galaxy outranks anything else, If I have a chance I would replace TIM with miranda. This is just my opinion from what I gathred from overlord TIM is impatient and miranda has the required   patience to do these kind of projects. As I said soon as I see the chance to replace TIM with miranda I will do it.

Almost doesn't count. Pretty much every major force in the galaxy almost screwed it up royally.
As for replacing TIM with Miranda. Are you talking about that Miranda who twice proposed to abandon your crew and shoot Niket without much hesitation? She has pretty much the same ruthless attitude as TIM.

[LorDC]

Spartas Husky wrote...
if only EDI had not told the Illusive man I would have kept it, to give it later on to someone I could trust.

And whom you can trust?

[Splinter Cell 108]

Destroy it, nobody in the galaxy can be trusted with it. Not the Illusive Man, the Council or the Alliance. There must be other things around the galaxy that can do something to the Reapers, one did get taken down by that defunct weapon that the Illusive Man mentions. Besides only 1% of the galaxy has been explored. Who knows what else anyone can find?

[LorDC]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Destroy it, nobody in the galaxy can be trusted with it. Not the Illusive Man, the Council or the Alliance. There must be other things around the galaxy that can do something to the Reapers, one did get taken down by that defunct weapon that the Illusive Man mentions. Besides only 1% of the galaxy has been explored. Who knows what else anyone can find?

So if your child was in burning house you would have stand there and wait for rain to come down from the sky?

[Spartas Husky]

LorDC wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...
if only EDI had not told the Illusive man I would have kept it, to give it later on to someone I could trust.

And whom you can trust?

Liara?

Not because I dontknow yet does it mean I have to blow it up.

Chorban. Dont know yet but I would like to have kept it. And give small amounts of data to different people.

[RAF1940]

I destroy it mostly.

[Sidac]

oh god, here we go again....

For what its worth, keep the base.

1. While it is the path that the reapers would desire it also teaches you the ins and outs, good and bad, of that path.
2. The tech wont stay with cerberus, it will get out to the other races. Cerberus gets tech but they are too small. They will pass it to the alliance and if its good the alliance will suck up tot he council via sharing tech.

Modifié par Sidac, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:03 .

[LorDC]

Spartas Husky wrote...
Liara?

While you can(in theory since she changed a lot) trust Liara can you trust SB organization? Making her study it alone is not a best thing to do.

Spartas Husky wrote...
Not because I dontknow yet does it mean I have to blow it up.

So you think that some force that is able to pull out the benefit from CB and is trustworthy enough will appear out of the blue on the galactic scene? I am afraid you have to decide now my friend;)

Spartas Husky wrote...
Chorban. Dont know yet but I would like to have kept it. And give small amounts of data to different people.

Chorban? Seriously? A lone salarian whom you barely know and who was involved in some shady stuff.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The way I look at it is that Cerberus is already an enemy of the Council, if the time comes to take him down... doing so would already be with the Council's blessing.



Plus, if you're still with Cerberus, then the technology from the Reapers would likely be shared with you and your team... I doubt he has enough time to get a large edge over us until after the Reaper threat is over (because the Reapers are a threat to all life).



3rd, you've already teamed up with some of the most lawless people in the galaxy to take down the Collectors... to not be willing to do that against the Reapers is a little hypocritical.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

The Reapers did not desire you to take the Collector Base... lol

Taking that is getting tech the Reapers didn't expect or intend for you to have.

What Sovereign meant by what he said there is only referring to the Citadel and the Relays.  Embracing technology that wasn't understood or engineered specifically for use by the people using it.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:02 .

[LorDC]

Sidac wrote...

oh god, here we go again....

Hell, I was in this threads for so long I can probably write monograph about it. But still, I never seem to be tired with this discussions even when it means repeating my arguments over and over again. Well at least not until it is third or fourth time around.

[Sidac]

LorDC wrote...

Sidac wrote...

oh god, here we go again....

Hell, I was in this threads for so long I can probably write monograph about it. But still, I never seem to be tired with this discussions even when it means repeating my arguments over and over again. Well at least not until it is third or fourth time around.

In the end it all ends up the same old "OMG TIM IS BAD CUZ THE COUNCIL SAYS HE IS" and the other side says "OMG NO HE ISNT THINK FOR YOURSELF YOU COUNCIL SUCKUP!"

Modifié par Sidac, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:06 .

[LorDC]

Sidac wrote...

LorDC wrote...

Sidac wrote...

oh god, here we go again....

Hell, I was in this threads for so long I can probably write monograph about it. But still, I never seem to be tired with this discussions even when it means repeating my arguments over and over again. Well at least not until it is third or fourth time around.

In the end it all ends up the same old "OMG TIM IS BAD CUZ THE COUNCIL SAYS HE IS" and the other side says "OMG NO HE ISNT THINK FOR YOURSELF YOU COUNCIL SUCKUP!"

BUT COUNCIL IS JUST BUNCH OF HYPOCRITES:D

[Sidac]

which is why i would enjoy killing them again given the chance. ****, cerberus gets things done at least. Id LOVE for TIM and Cerberus to take over the citadel.

Modifié par Sidac, 24 janvier 2011 - 09:11 .