64 réponses à ce sujet

[didymos1120]

SandTrout wrote...

People are reading too much into it being called an IFF anything they possibly can in a neverending nitpick-it-to-death quest.

Small correction.

[sth128]

SandTrout wrote...

People are reading too much into it being called an IFF. That designation was given to the device not because we understand all of its functions, but because that was the closest analogue we have for what we understand about its general purpose.

It is an IFF, for the RELAY. If you're friend, it stops you next to the station. If you are foe, it sends you into the blackhole.

The Oculi obviously require some other device to disarm. Or maybe they are capable of independent judgement seeing as they're GIANT EYEBALLS. I mean, Normandy just doesn't look like a Reaper or Collector vessel. You don't even have to do that much programming with the Oculi:

if (ship looks like Reaper or ship looks like Collector)
     Do Nothing
Else
     Shoot the crap out of it
End if

[StarGateGod]

if i was comander shepard and had the choice i would of straped a couple of nuke thru first just to blast any potential defenders and any debris, since all the ships and to go som,ewhere

[samuraix87]

was it it ever mentioned if the iff could be copied to be put on other ships cause the iff will be a big part of me3 if the reapers are in control of the citadel and the iff will get us through locked relays to get to our allies and so forth

[StarGateGod]

samuraix87 wrote...

was it it ever mentioned if the iff could be copied to be put on other ships cause the iff will be a big part of me3 if the reapers are in control of the citadel and the iff will get us through locked relays to get to our allies and so forth

that would be a very intersted plot device

[heinoMK2]

here's a bit simplier explanation to the IFF:

when you activate omega 4 relay the gate checks for IFF signal. if it's not there there is a warning sent to the collector's base with information on the incoming ship which results in them mobilizing ASAP and sitting in weapon firing range somewhere near the entry point.

as soon as a hostile ships arrives, it gets shot at and explodes because there is appartently slight delay before registering wtf happens and taking evasive maneuvers.

since normandy could transmit a friendly signal it had time to arrive and get out of the wreck field. it was identified as hostile shortly after by automated systems but in the end the IFF provided enough time to deal with this while the collectors were mobilizing their cruiser.

if the collector cruiser would sit near the debris field with weapons activated and ready to fire knowing what ship and more importanly when to expect, normandy would not get any chance for survival.

Modifié par heinoMK2, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:16 .

[shoggoth1890]

My point as well heinoMK. People do not value the precious brief moments that can turn the tide of a battle. Being able to get the jump on an enemy rather than an enemy getting the jump on you is a MAJOR advantage, despite the fact that both of you get into a fight either way. It's as though they feel getting the IFF should let us casually saunter into the base carefree.

[JKoopman]

heinoMK2 wrote...

here's a bit simplier explanation to the IFF:

when you activate omega 4 relay the gate checks for IFF signal. if it's not there there is a warning sent to the collector's base with information on the incoming ship which results in them mobilizing ASAP and sitting in weapon firing range somewhere near the entry point.

as soon as a hostile ships arrives, it gets shot at and explodes because there is appartently slight delay before registering wtf happens and taking evasive maneuvers.

since normandy could transmit a friendly signal it had time to arrive and get out of the wreck field. it was identified as hostile shortly after by automated systems but in the end the IFF provided enough time to deal with this while the collectors were mobilizing their cruiser.

if the collector cruiser would sit near the debris field with weapons activated and ready to fire knowing what ship and more importanly when to expect, normandy would not get any chance for survival.

What would be the point of rigging the Omega-4 Relay to only send information on incoming vessels that aren't broadcasting the IFF? What, is there too much Reaper traffic in the area for them to keep track of it all? It seems like intentionally creating a backdoor for enemies to exploit.

Nevermind that any signal regarding the incoming vessel would arrive mere miliseconds before the ship itself did, so unless there was a Collector cruiser waiting there 24/7 there'd be no time to mobilize anything. Automated defenses that can sit idle for decades and open fire when they detect any incoming craft not broadcasting an IFF would be the logical solution, but then the Oculi just open fire on the Normandy anyway so that doesn't really fly.

The IFF activating some kind of advanced protocol in the Omega-4 Relay that makes the jump more accurate (and all those other ships managing the same feat just being dumb luck) is the only somewhat sensible explanation, but then drift is explained in ME1 as a product of pilot skill NOT the mass relays themselves, so that would seem to contradict that notion. Also, as Joker can apparently make a relay jump accurate to within 1500km normally, I doubt navigating the Omega-4 Relay would've been much of a challenge (1500km is roughly the distance between San Francisco and Seattle... microscopic on a cosmic scale). If a sufficiently skilled pilot can simply bypass the primary line of defense for the Collector Base, and if thousands of other vessels can penetrate it simply by random chance and/or dumb luck, then it doesn't really seem like much of a defense.

Modifié par JKoopman, 26 janvier 2011 - 11:44 .

[EternalPink]

As i recall from ME1 Joker actually makes quite a big deal out of the fact that the little amount of drift he gets is amazing, something along the lines of Nihulus saying well done and joker coming back with no its amazing.



Joker also states he's the best pilot, the normandy is to much ship for any other pilot and so on.



So to exploit this alleged hole we'd need.



1. Amazing pilot

2. A ship that won't get 1 shot by the collectors ( i.e SR1 )



So theres one ship that fits point 1 ( SR2 with Joker on ) and with point 2 well theres the SR2 Normandy and maybe a dreadnought? Except we are told that dreadnoughts are strategic resources that we would not dare risk so I doubt the Salarians, Asari, Turians or Humans will lend us a dreadnought.



Though personnally from all the flying as you come out of the relay anything less manuerable than a frigate would fly into a giant piece of debris and that prolly wouldn't go to well.

[Whereto]

This is pretty easy, the IFF, doesn't do a couple things.



1) it doesn't stop the collectors from detecting you nor the "scary laser eyes". I doubt that the Oculus, don't perform a scan of the ship entering the bases mass effect field. Would seem pretty stupid if they didn't check the ships that are coming in, as even with the drift, there is a slight chance a ship may get through. As for the collectors, they probably received signals from the Oculus saying there is an enemy ship, so after a few of them were destroyed they had to come out



2) I doubt any ship would have even a little part of them in the debris field as those black holes wouldn't let any part of them out. Considering the gravity is so high it sucks in light and would be so quick, I don't think any ship would have time to really activate FTL in the right direction. So I would say most of those ships in the debris field would of probably entered very close to the base and destroyed by the collectors and oculus. I'm sure some of the ships probably FTL'd and were ripped apart then left debris that was luckily caught by the mass effect field.



3) i don't think the reapers or collectors care about the debris as it take a hole fleet to take a reapers shields down, I don't think a bit of junk will do it. So why would their IFF bother finding a better route, Discounting the fact that there might not be. The Normandy was probably going to end up in a debris field anyway.

[shoggoth1890]

JKoopman wrote...

What would be the point of rigging the Omega-4 Relay to only send information on incoming vessels that aren't broadcasting the IFF? What, is there too much Reaper traffic in the area for them to keep track of it all? It seems like intentionally creating a backdoor for enemies to exploit.



Nevermind that any signal regarding the incoming vessel would arrive mere miliseconds before the ship itself did, so unless there was a Collector cruiser waiting there 24/7 there'd be no time to mobilize anything. Automated defenses that can sit idle for decades and open fire when they detect any incoming craft not broadcasting an IFF would be the logical solution, but then the Oculi just open fire on the Normandy anyway so that doesn't really fly.



The IFF activating some kind of advanced protocol in the Omega-4 Relay that makes the jump more accurate (and all those other ships managing the same feat just being dumb luck) is the only somewhat sensible explanation, but then drift is explained in ME1 as a product of pilot skill NOT the mass relays themselves, so that would seem to contradict that notion. Also, as Joker can apparently make a relay jump accurate to within 1500km normally, I doubt navigating the Omega-4 Relay would've been much of a challenge (1500km is roughly the distance between San Francisco and Seattle... microscopic on a cosmic scale). If a sufficiently skilled pilot can simply bypass the primary line of defense for the Collector Base, and if thousands of other vessels can penetrate it simply by random chance and/or dumb luck, then it doesn't really seem like much of a defense.

The indoctrinated eventually lose their mental faculties. The collectors had essentially become mindless drones doing what they were told. Reapers jumping in is likely a rare event, but god help them if they were to ever open fire on one.

In preparation to use a mass relay, the pilot has to transmit certain info about what is being sent, such as weight of the ship. Even if it only takes the relay 5 seconds to process that info, the "incoming ship" signal could be sent. The collectors could then focus all their firepower in the general direction of arrival and fire 5 seconds after they receive the signal.

Although pilot skill plays a factor, it's only for the "fine-tuning" aspects of arrival. Primary determination is without a doubt up to the relay itself.

[wizardryforever]

I think the explanation for this is fairly simple really.  The relays commonly cause drift of UP TO several thousand kilometers.  This leads to the assumption that they sometimes don't, for whatever reason.  There's also the aforementioned pilot skill, which can offset some of the drift.  I would say that the ships that make up the debris field simply got lucky and were deposited in the safe zone.  It would make sense then, for the Reapers/Collectors to have a second line of defense for those lucky enough to survive the trip.  The Oculi seem to be that defense, opening fire on any non-Reaper, non-Collector ship to come through.  The debris field would also make their job easier, since anyone making it through the relay may very well crash into the debris and destroy themselves, without having to risk their Oculi defenses.

I don't really see the problem.  The IFF calibrates the relay to be more accurate, depositing them in the safezone that only a few have been "lucky" enough to see up that point.  The Normandy then engages the second line of defense, the Oculi and Collector cruiser.  Simple and seamless as far as I can tell.

[Bogsnot1]

You maintain the same velocity exiting through the relay as you do entering it. We have not seen how the Collectors jump through, they could park beside it and then activate the controls, whereas Normandy used an approach vextor and flew into the relay.

This would mean the Collectors arrive at a relative standstill, and thus able to negotiate the debris field with relative ease, and the Normandy came out at full throttle and had to engage evasive manuevers.

[SandTrout]

didymos1120 wrote...

SandTrout wrote...

People are reading too much into it being called an IFF anything they possibly can in a neverending nitpick-it-to-death quest.

Small correction.

Lawl. Have I ever mentioned that I love you, Didymos?

[faeriehunter]

wizardryforever wrote...
The relays commonly cause drift of UP TO several thousand kilometers.

Not exactly. From the ME2 codex entry "Space Combat: Trans-Relay Assaults":
Any long distance and/or high mass jump will see "drift". That is, a ship may be hundreds or millions of kilometers from its intended drop point, in any direction from the relay.

So apparently drift varies wildly, but the more distance someone jumps and the heavier their ship(s), the more drift they'll likely experience. I agree with the rest of your post however.