124 réponses à ce sujet

[cachx]

Not even Earthborn Sheps are cannonically bound to like Earth (quite the opposite, actually).

Neither ME1 or M2 builds any empathy towards the planet. I know is not the popular opinion but I hope we spend A LOT of time on earth, get us to care. Or maybe a sequence were we play as Benny? (yeah, unlikely).

[Zulu_DFA]

Sbri wrote...

However you lose the, for lack of a better word, "spirit" that Earth represents to humanity. You can have the greatest industrial output possible, but if you already feel defeated, then any advantage in numbers of either people or industrial production will have to overcome the mental and emotional hurdels of losing the Earth. Often people will fight to the death to protect stategically questionable goals, precisly because the loss of those targets would cause a huge loss of moral that might in fact lose you the war.

All things "spiritual" are rubbish.

But for the simple minds that think they are not, the Earth will of course be repopulated once the Reapers are defeated, and converted into a memorial, or a some sort of sanctum, to become ever more powerful symbol.

Like, you know, Alamo was a symbol for the Texans. General Houston could rush to relieve it and possibly loose everything. Instead, he let the defenders of Alamo get slaughtered to the last man, taking strategic advantge of this sacrifice. And in a few months he royally kicked Santa Anna's arse.

In 1812 the Russians burned Moscow themselves, only to annihilate Napoleon's Great Army in a few months.

Yet Napoleon had to be defeated twice more, because he knew well himself, when to quit only to fight another day.

During WWII Hitler ordered to flatten the city of Coventry in a bombing campaign to demoralize the British. Churchill knew this, because the British had cracked the code and were listenning to the German communications at their leisure. Did he order evacuation of Coventry? No,he  even insisted that no additional anti-air capabilities be deployed there, to not compromise the intelligence.

And propanda can handle almost any situation and spin everything post factum in favor of the winner. Turn any tempory defeat into a "glorious sacrifice" or an "atrocity" of now crushed enemy.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 janvier 2011 - 05:47 .

[luakel]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
In 1812 the Russians burned Moscow themselves, only to annihilate Napoleon's Great Army in a few months.

Kinda trivial, but Moscow wasn't even Russia's capital at that point, St. Petersburg was. I suppose you could make an Earth-Arcturus analogy here, but seeing as Earth is the supplier of all that manpower that allows humanity to keep founding new colonies instead of just consolidating the old ones... I think losing it would be more like losing Moscow in 1941 than in 1812.

Besides, if Earth gets destroyed, that might take humanity down a peg in the eyes of the other species. Even if the Alliance military is still active and ready to ensure human supremacy, there could be a perception that the Alliance is a paper tiger unable to protect its homeworld. The quarians certainly haven't benefited in the eyes of the galaxy after losing their homeworld, even though they have a larger fleet than anyone else. Losing Earth makes humans look weak, and it could force the Alliance to fight some very bloody wars to prove that we're not weak.

[Schneidend]

The quarians' reputation was ruined because they broke the galaxy's only universal taboo.

[Sbri]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
All things "spiritual" are rubbish.

But for the simple minds that think they are not, the Earth will of course be repopulated once the Reapers are defeated, and converted into a memorial, or a some sort of sanctum, to become ever more powerful symbol.

Like, you know, Alamo was a symbol for the Texans. General Houston could rush to relieve it and possibly loose everything. Instead, he let the defenders of Alamo get slaughtered to the last man, taking strategic advantge of this sacrifice. And in a few months he royally kicked Santa Anna's arse.

In 1812 the Russians burned Moscow themselves, only to annihilate Napoleon's Great Army in a few months.

Yet Napoleon had to be defeated twice more, because he knew well himself, when to quit only to fight another day.

During WWII Hitler ordered to flatten the city of Coventry in a bombing campaign to demoralize the British. Churchill knew this, because the British had cracked the code and were listenning to the German communications at their leisure. Did he order evacuation of Coventry? No,he  even insisted that no additional anti-air capabilities be deployed there, to not compromise the intelligence.

And propanda can handle almost any situation and spin everything post factum in favor of the winner. Turn any tempory defeat into a "glorious sacrifice" or an "atrocity" of now crushed enemy.

  Be very careful when you dismiss something as important only to simple minds. They can often come back to haunt you.  While the destruction of Earth would grant the remaining earth forces a huge "revenge" motivation, many others will take it as an indication that we can not succeed. For all that Dunkirk and St. Valerie were turned into propaganda "wins" it did not change the fact that they seriously weakened moral, and brought into question whether Britain should be defended. McArthur folding up his flag and saying "I shall return." made for a great photo op, but it didn't hide the fact that he was having his butt handed to him by Japan. And his leaving, while stratigically vital, didn't change the fact that it was seen as a huge defeat.

[SandTrout]

Besides the fact, we, as a species and as a nation, can not tolerate that kind of hit to our population base. As I've stated earlier, we need people in order to continue expanding. We need to continue expanding in order to establish dominance. We need Earth to supply those people.

[BTG_01]

Earth? That's where chocolate comes from!





My Shepard made some offhand remark about humans being loyal to their homeworld when talking to Anoleis, so I guess I gotta back that one up.

[frylock23]

1.) Gen. Douglas MacArthur oversaw the military occupation of Japan post-WWII. Then, he was stationed in Korea to be the commander of the UN forces during the Korean conflict. It was from that post that Pres. Truman removed him, and it was there that he made his famous statement. Also, he was removed from command not because he was "getting his butt kicked" but because he and his forces had pushed North Korean and Chinese forces back to the Chinese border. MacArthur wanted to punch on into China and Truman disagreed. The disagreement led to MacArthur's removal.

2.) How important Earth is relative to the rest of the universe when it comes time to save things really depends on how much aid Earth gets offered from our "allies."  If they aren't willing to lend support to defend the Earth, then they most likely aren't going to help humanity after I sacrifice Earth to save them.  If everyone is getting attacked at once, then I still defend Earth to my best ability unless there is some inidication that the other species are really going to come together to defend a member NO MATTER WHAT.  It's all well and good to be noble, but unless that nobility will be reciprocated, I have no particular interest in it.  If everyone else is at my back and willing to go all-in to defeat the Reapers even at another species' (or their own species') expense, then whether or not I sacrifice Earth depends greatly on the tactical situation at hand.

Modifié par frylock23, 25 janvier 2011 - 08:43 .

[Last Vizard]

A choice between my race's homeworld or a bunch of Aliens.... No contest for my MALE Shep (i'm a guy that plays as a guy character.... rare i see on these forums). The aliens have more worlds, they can afford to have nine out of ten burn and still have a population higher than 11 billion (ME numbers).... haven't seen any poster that actually looked at the big picture.



Zulu_DFA does almost come near dead on having a point, most first world countries have low populations and ME 1 even says that only first world countries are getting anything out of this Golden age, combined total is around 6 billion (Heavy hitters: China little over one billion, India little over one billion, Europe, America and the other western first world countries in total is a little over one billion, so........ the other three billion is just dead weight consuming food.... just a little bit true Zulu but mostly wrong because in this case it means the first world consuming the products from the colonies is gone too.

[EssenceEngine]

Planet Earth's only trait that makes it emotionally relevant to me is the beauty of its wilderness. The people are irrelevant to me. I guess it's fair to say I wouldn't put it high on my list of priorities if it came to that.



I would make a bad nationalist.

[james1976]

1st character - would do all that he could to save Earth

2nd character - would weigh the options before him heavily before making a decision

3rd character - she is more likely to sacrifice half the galaxy anyway if it accomplishes her goals

[Barambu]

My (male, Earthborn, so far Paragon) Shepard would do everything the save Earth. He decided to save the council by sacrificing the lives of many brave men and women, protected the Galaxy with his life and always tried to see the bigger picture. But this time, humanity comes first.

[Lewie]

Also that your pretty 'famous' back on earth so your deciding on what type of Shepard your sending back. Still the first human spectre too, tv interviews etc, so earth already has a huge opinion on Shepard they have a connection to you already, even if you feel disconnected from them.

[James2912]

This is why people complain about video games desensitizing people to violence. I have read many comments on this forum acting like sacrificing 11 Billion people is no big deal! Wow, think about that for a second...



To clarify I'm not talking about sacrificing Earth for. the Galaxy, thats a respectable position even though I might disagree. I'm talking about those who just say they don't care, or look forward to burning Earth.

[Da_Lion_Man]

My Shepard is an Earthborn. I care about the Earth quite a bit, but if I'll have to sacrifice it for the greater good so be it.



I believe the final choice in ME3 might be this: Either you destroy the Reapers along with the Earth, or you save the Earth, scare off the Reapers but not destroy them. That means they'll be back and we only delayed the inevitable.



It would be a really tough choice, however I think I'd go with destroying Earth and the Reapers.

[EpicBoot2daFace]

Cheesy Blue wrote...

My Shepard is Earthborn so he's gonna get pretty worked up over the fact that the reapers are attacking Earth.

Yep, same here.

[Wulfram]

My colonist is very attached to it, as long as she doesn't have to live there.

[BTG_01]

Some odd opinions here. Whatever you think about Earth, it doesn't exactly make humanity look good if they stand by while their homeworld is destroyed.

Also, to clarify while trying hard not to sound like a know-it-all ******, MacArthur said "I shall return" because he was forced to leave the Philippines after the Japanese took over them over in 1942. MacArthur's more famous adage of "old soldiers never die" was after he was removed by Truman from the Korean War.

[Cypher0020]

Ehh...Charlie has no real fond memories of Earth, living in the slums, but she'll save it... because she's jus that damn noble....



Teddy on the other hand, really liked Earth. She loved relying on no one but herself, and actually had a lot of friends both alien and human...

[SandTrout]

frylock23 wrote...

1.) Gen. Douglas MacArthur oversaw the military occupation of Japan post-WWII. Then, he was stationed in Korea to be the commander of the UN forces during the Korean conflict. It was from that post that Pres. Truman removed him, and it was there that he made his famous statement. Also, he was removed from command not because he was "getting his butt kicked" but because he and his forces had pushed North Korean and Chinese forces back to the Chinese border. MacArthur wanted to punch on into China and Truman disagreed. The disagreement led to MacArthur's removal.

Incorrect regarding the setting of MacArthur's famous quote. The famous "I came through and I shall return" was in reference to the Philipines as the Japanese were forcing them off the Bataan peninsula. (1)

[Lewie]

No matter if my playthrough is paragon or renegade the whole point is to save earth. Whats the point otherwise.. 'hey reapers have fun, do your worst, ill ****** off back into space and get wiped out eventually by you anyway'. The cycle must be ended in 3, by humanity. Humanity are underdogs in the galactic world, the quarians have the largest fleet, the krogan are a force to be reckoned, the asari are bloody everywhere and the turians are well up in the game apart from a choice as counscellor. Earth is on it own the amount of humans in space is more few and far between.

[The Unfallen]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Agree with DaVanguard, saving 11 billion people's a pretty big deal. But if I have to choose between it and the rest of the galaxy (millions of human colonists and trillions of aliens), it's gettin' crispied. Or if saving the Earth's the "dramatic" conclusion to the trilogy, in which case I will let it burn out of spite.

 I lol'd. 

Modifié par That Yellow Bastard, 26 janvier 2011 - 12:30 .

[Sajuro]

EssenceEngine wrote...

Planet Earth's only trait that makes it emotionally relevant to me is the beauty of its wilderness. The people are irrelevant to me. I guess it's fair to say I wouldn't put it high on my list of priorities if it came to that.

I would make a bad nationalist.

From what I've heard about Earth in Mass Effect, there isn't much beauty or wilderness in which to have that beauty left.