257 réponses à ce sujet

[Beerfish]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Conversations can have cutscenes in them.

That's very annoying, by the way.

In DAO, in Ostagar, there's a conversation with Cailan and Lopghain about the plan for the upcoming battle.  I often skipped through lines in that because, frankly, listening to them bicker isn't any more fun that reading about them bickering.  But the command to skip a line was the same as the command to skip a cutscene, so I managed to skip a large section of the end of the conversation EVERY TIME, and I didn't even know I'd missed it until my 9th time through Ostagar.

If we can skip lines (which we can), and we can skip cutscenes (which I suspect we can), then either we need to be able to tell, unequivocally, which one we're currently experiencing, or the skip keys need to be different.

That is 110% your own fault.  Come now the very 1st time you play through a game what are you doing skipping through anything?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Dhiro wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Sp. overall, people are happy about this? 

LiquidGrape wrote...

Wait, people see an increased amount of cutscenes as a POSITIVE thing?

...why?

Personally, I'm in agreement with this ^^.  Shorter than Origins, with 42 more minutes of cutscenes.  103 minutes is about standard movie length, you know.  personally, I'd rather be playing the game than watching it.

Dragon Effect 2: The JRPG Experiment

I know! Isn't that a wonderful thing? I'm so excited, how many copies you will buy? I want two, one for my PC and one for my PS3 because if one of them broke I still can play the game, YAAAAY XDDDDDDDDDDDD.

To someone who hates JRPG's because they're not into JRPG's that are 99% movie cutscenes and 1% game, No its not. Its why I stick to mainly western RPG's in the first place.

[Dhiro]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Dhiro wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

TJPags wrote...

Sp. overall, people are happy about this? 

LiquidGrape wrote...

Wait, people see an increased amount of cutscenes as a POSITIVE thing?

...why?

Personally, I'm in agreement with this ^^.  Shorter than Origins, with 42 more minutes of cutscenes.  103 minutes is about standard movie length, you know.  personally, I'd rather be playing the game than watching it.

Dragon Effect 2: The JRPG Experiment

I know! Isn't that a wonderful thing? I'm so excited, how many copies you will buy? I want two, one for my PC and one for my PS3 because if one of them broke I still can play the game, YAAAAY XDDDDDDDDDDDD.

To someone who hates JRPG's because they're not into JRPG's that are 99% movie cutscenes and 1% game, No its not. Its why I stick to mainly western RPG's in the first place.

[Johnny Shepard]

supremebloodwolf wrote...

sorry im kind of new at posting in the bioware forums so i didnt know i could look through all the developer replies

It's OK. In just got tierd of explaining it everytime someone did'nt bother to read more then the first post. And somepeople seam to want the game to be bad a fail with sort of gets to me.

[Mad-Max90]

Cutscenes can be great if done right, mass effect handled cut scenes good, but iwill have to say best Cut scenes I've seen are on heavy rain

[Johnny Shepard]

TheMadCat wrote...

Johnny Shepard wrote...

TheMadCat wrote...

So what, an hour or so worth of cut scenes on top of all the dialogue in a 30 some hour game. Feel kind of heavy.

Well, its sort of "dialogue-cutscene-dialogue-dialogue-cutscene-dialogue" and the cutscenes are really really short. Like 2-5 sec.
Sure, there will be some longer like the ones in Origins when Logain was planing or the battle of Ostagar or when you kill the Archdemon. But most of them are short, and its 103 min thropugh ALL playthroughs mening every choice.

I know that, why do you think I said an hour rather then 103 minutes. I'd figure (And am hoping) you can cut out 30-40 minutes from the total to get an esitmate for a playthrorugh. 

Well, its less then that. Origins had 60 min total but you only saw about 15-20 min on a playthrough.
I would gues about 35 min in DAII where 3 would be real cutscenes.

Modifié par Johnny Shepard, 26 janvier 2011 - 02:20 .

[upsettingshorts]

DAO had 60 min.
DA2 has 103 min.
John Epler has said before that the cinematic team has tripled in size from DAO.

This strikes me as consistent.
*nods to self*

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 26 janvier 2011 - 02:19 .

[Brockololly]

Well, what I hope is that if there are a bunch of cutscenes that they aren't low quality and pixelated pre rendered versions of the in game engine. Like what you had in ME2 when the Normandy would dock and I think some of the Loghain cutscenes in Origins were the same way- they were made in the engine and all, but its like they were scaled down and visibly grainy/lower quality than if you were playing the game maxed out on your PC.

filaminstrel wrote...

If none of that cutscene time is devoted to musical interludes involving the whole cast I will be sorely disappointed.

They just need Thriller interludes, like so:

Modifié par Brockololly, 26 janvier 2011 - 02:32 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

DAO had 60 min.
DA2 has 103 min.
John Epler has said before that the cinematic team has tripled in size from DAO.

This strikes me as consistent.
*nods to self*

Well sure, that doesn't mean it was a great idea though. Guess we see how it plays out, even I'm getting a little tired of being disappointed over and over and over with every new info drop though.

[slimgrin]

I would hope more cutscenes doesn't mean less gameplay.

Edit: lol, Brock thats hilarious!

Modifié par slimgrin, 26 janvier 2011 - 02:35 .

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

slimgrin wrote...

I would hope more cutscenes doesn't mean less gameplay.

I would not at all be surprised if this is why the game is so much shorter than Origins in the first place to be honest.

[upsettingshorts]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

Well sure, that doesn't mean it was a great idea though.

Eh, it's just as meaningless at this point as if they had said "we added more combat encounters."

Whether or not they're done right and make the game more fun is the point.  If the cinematics are reactive to my choices and thats why there's so many more minutes worth of total cinematics, that'd be great.  But no, more doesn't in of itself equal better.

[Bryy_Miller]

Brockololly wrote...

They just need Thriller interludes, like so:

That is the best thing I've seen all day.

[The Edge]

Too bad that those 103 minutes of cut-scenes account for roughly half of the game's total length

I kid, I kid!

[TJPags]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

supremebloodwolf wrote...

im hoping theres are atleast 40 hours of gameplay as well as hoping these 103 minutes worth of cutscenes is the combined amount of possible cutscenes throughout every possible playthrough.

They are. It's every little scene where you don't control Hawke like when he uses the murderknife.
Lets say you deside that Hawke shut someone up, a 2-sec cutscene starts where Hawke hits the gfuy in the face. Or you deside to kill someone, a cutscene starts where Hawke users the murderknife and kills the guy.
If you check what the devs said in this thread you will se it explained.
Its not more cutscenes then Origins, just things like characters doing stuff then just standinga round when you talk to them.

Yea, I understand it's every little scene, and not all will be viewed on any given playthrough/

You know what?  Using the murderknife takes, like, 5 seconds.  It happens, about, 3-4 times through Origins, Awakenings, Golems and WH.

You know what else are cutscenes, though?  Loghain returning to Denerim after Ostagar.  Loghain hiring Zevran.  Anora asking Loghain about aid from Orlais.  Uldred's speech when you do the B roken Circle quest.  Branka's rant when you find her in the deep roads.  Alistair or Anora's speech before the battle of Denerim.  Etc.

I'm not worried or concerned or bothered by 5 second cutscenes of the murder-knife.  But you know what? You'd need 20,772 of those 5 second cutscenes to make 103 minutes.  Somehow, I don't think there's 20,772 small, 5-second cutscenes.

I'm concerned about the longer cutscenes, and what seems likely to me to be more of them, in a game that's shorter than Origins.

[John Epler]

So any time we do something like a camera drift, custom animation linking or anything else that isn't necessarily possible in the conversation editor, it counts as a cutscene. Bearing in mind that the cinematic design team on DA2 is much larger than on DA:O, we tend to be able to give a larger percentage of conversations that 'extra touch', as it were.



So saying that there are '103 minutes of cutscenes' doesn't really surprise me, particularly when a single dialogue can have multiple cutscenes for one 'section' and yet only play a single of the group, based on a number of factors (player personality, henchmen present, player class). Thus, 30 seconds of cutscenes may refer to 3 different 10 second cutscenes, only one of which you'll see in a single playthrough.



Suggesting that we've removed large swathes of dialogue only to replace them with non-interactive cutscenes to save time/effort is actually contrary to how things work. It's a lot easier to do 50 seconds of back-and-forth, stand and deliver dialogue than it is to do that same 50 seconds using cutscenes. Cutscenes require maintenance if assets change, they take a lot more cinematic design time, and they have to be set up to accommodate foreign VO, for example.



I mean, if we had 30 minutes of cutscenes in the game, it would likely mean that we'd either A) trimmed the dialogue a ton or only applied that extra layer of polish to a few key moments. Instead, we tried to improve the overall visual fidelity of the conversations and adopt a more cinematic style. This, by necessity, requires more 'cutscenes' than if we'd just done everything procedurally. The end effect is, I think, a game where the conversations tend to look a fair bit better. But in the end, you guys will be the final judge of that.

[In Exile]

TJPags wrote...
Yea, I understand it's every little scene, and not all will be viewed on any given playthrough/

You know what?  Using the murderknife takes, like, 5 seconds.  It happens, about, 3-4 times through Origins, Awakenings, Golems and WH.

Things like the Varric knife-twirl are a cut-scene. I think you will see lot of character-object interactions. Especially based on what John says.

[Merllle]

Brockololly wrote...
They just need Thriller interludes, like so:

That was the best thing ever. And I mean, EVER. I am mesmerized.

Also, I can't decide which one I like the best. I think it *might* be Loghain. Just look at him, seriously. At the same time, I am appaled at how appropriate and natural Zevran looks. Shake that booty, party members, oh yeaaah <3

I wholeheartedly hope those 103 minutes of cutscenes deliver such a memorable stock of characters as Origins, did, BioWare! I am watching you.

[ENolan]

I'm actually surprised no one brought up how much time of those cutscenes will be spent in....... NO!!! I'm not even bringing it up or giving life to such a thought. Let someone else go MODOK over it!

[Shadelon]

JohnEpler wrote...

So any time we do something like a camera drift, custom animation linking or anything else that isn't necessarily possible in the conversation editor, it counts as a cutscene. Bearing in mind that the cinematic design team on DA2 is much larger than on DA:O, we tend to be able to give a larger percentage of conversations that 'extra touch', as it were.

So saying that there are '103 minutes of cutscenes' doesn't really surprise me, particularly when a single dialogue can have multiple cutscenes for one 'section' and yet only play a single of the group, based on a number of factors (player personality, henchmen present, player class). Thus, 30 seconds of cutscenes may refer to 3 different 10 second cutscenes, only one of which you'll see in a single playthrough.

Suggesting that we've removed large swathes of dialogue only to replace them with non-interactive cutscenes to save time/effort is actually contrary to how things work. It's a lot easier to do 50 seconds of back-and-forth, stand and deliver dialogue than it is to do that same 50 seconds using cutscenes. Cutscenes require maintenance if assets change, they take a lot more cinematic design time, and they have to be set up to accommodate foreign VO, for example.

I mean, if we had 30 minutes of cutscenes in the game, it would likely mean that we'd either A) trimmed the dialogue a ton or only applied that extra layer of polish to a few key moments. Instead, we tried to improve the overall visual fidelity of the conversations and adopt a more cinematic style. This, by necessity, requires more 'cutscenes' than if we'd just done everything procedurally. The end effect is, I think, a game where the conversations tend to look a fair bit better. But in the end, you guys will be the final judge of that.

103 minutes of cutscenes, alot of which you will not see within a single playthrough, compared to 61 minutes of cutscenes in DAO, alot of which you do not see within a single playthrough.....This points to me, one thing. People that are fearing that DA-II has LESS replayability than DAO, are actually wrong. It appears to have just as much as, if not MORE replayability than DAO. Only time will tell of course. Thank you for this tantalizing tidbit into how this works. 

[TJPags]

JohnEpler wrote...

So any time we do something like a camera drift, custom animation linking or anything else that isn't necessarily possible in the conversation editor, it counts as a cutscene. Bearing in mind that the cinematic design team on DA2 is much larger than on DA:O, we tend to be able to give a larger percentage of conversations that 'extra touch', as it were.

So saying that there are '103 minutes of cutscenes' doesn't really surprise me, particularly when a single dialogue can have multiple cutscenes for one 'section' and yet only play a single of the group, based on a number of factors (player personality, henchmen present, player class). Thus, 30 seconds of cutscenes may refer to 3 different 10 second cutscenes, only one of which you'll see in a single playthrough.

Suggesting that we've removed large swathes of dialogue only to replace them with non-interactive cutscenes to save time/effort is actually contrary to how things work. It's a lot easier to do 50 seconds of back-and-forth, stand and deliver dialogue than it is to do that same 50 seconds using cutscenes. Cutscenes require maintenance if assets change, they take a lot more cinematic design time, and they have to be set up to accommodate foreign VO, for example.

I mean, if we had 30 minutes of cutscenes in the game, it would likely mean that we'd either A) trimmed the dialogue a ton or only applied that extra layer of polish to a few key moments. Instead, we tried to improve the overall visual fidelity of the conversations and adopt a more cinematic style. This, by necessity, requires more 'cutscenes' than if we'd just done everything procedurally. The end effect is, I think, a game where the conversations tend to look a fair bit better. But in the end, you guys will be the final judge of that.

This is a bit better of an explanation then what you gave earlier.  I don't know if it's the words you used, or the examples, but it makes more sense to me.  Perhaps the post by InExile below this (which I didn't qquote, only for length purposes) about Varric twrilling a dagger or tossing an apple helped.

I freely admit not being the most tech-savvy person around.  I don't have hardly the understanding of technical aspects of programming, or even terminology, that many people on these forums seem to, to say nothing of those who actually work in this industry.

I don't know if your response was directed to me, but I certainly did not mean to imply that there were swaths of dialogue that were removed to make room for cutscenes.  I'm not one of those thinking that playable portions of the game were cut to make room for fancy animations.

My concern is that 103 minutes sounds like a lot to me, particularly when I think of cutscene in terms of a viewable scene, like those I described in my last post (Uldred's speech, Riordan jumping on the AD, etc) rather than a shift of camera angle, or an NPC twirling a dagger while we talk to him.

103 minutes is a full length movie.  Now, I like movies.  But I also like games.  And I don't want to watch a movie in the middle of my game.

Obviously, this is one of those "we won't know until we see it" things.  And I'm willing - anxious, in fact - to get a chance to see it.  But, while my concern is alleviated thanks to your post, John, I still have some concerns.  I hop they will all become moot when I see things in action, I really do.

[dreamextractor]

Brockololly wrote...

Well, what I hope is that if there are a bunch of cutscenes that they aren't low quality and pixelated pre rendered versions of the in game engine. Like what you had in ME2 when the Normandy would dock and I think some of the Loghain cutscenes in Origins were the same way- they were made in the engine and all, but its like they were scaled down and visibly grainy/lower quality than if you were playing the game maxed out on your PC.

filaminstrel wrote...

If none of that cutscene time is devoted to musical interludes involving the whole cast I will be sorely disappointed.

They just need Thriller interludes, like so:

Oghren and Loghain are the best thing about this.

[TheMadCat]

Johnny Shepard wrote...

Well, its less then that. Origins had 60 min total but you only saw about 15-20 min on a playthrough.
I would gues about 35 min in DAII where 3 would be real cutscenes.

Eh, I see that as wishful thinking. One of the common goals stated by BioWare was making the game more cinematic then Origins, exactly what that means I don't know. But I'm not sure using the ratio from Origins automatically equates to what we're going to see in 2. Regardless though, be it my number or your number it's still more scenes in a shorter game. Origins I thought was already heavy on the cutscenes with quite a few being unnecessary and redundant. I don't see how cramming more in less time is going to improve upon that.