21 réponses à ce sujet

[Ace Attorney]

 After all this time, what is the verdict on which is better for Rogues?

[TheBigMatt90]

Define better? For one on one dps then a Backstabbing Cun maxed Dex very min Rogue will out damage everyone in the game. However he will find it hard to survive against something that cant be stunned or if he pulls aggro from tank. Dex build is more survivable, it can even offtank if the need arises, and is better with a bow, however i like to get a minimum of 50-55 dex with gear on my rogue and then pump cun. it gives a decent defence - therefore survivability and is not really that far behind a max cun rogue in dps. Or thats what i have found anyway

[Realranger55]

I'd say they are better at different things. Depends on the party you want to play with and the style of play you are going for. Both excel in different areas and both are completely viable and fun to play.



Cunning builds tend to be more damage orientated and usually have a dedicated tank so that they can go nuts on the backstabs. They also have a decent amount of utility with high cunning affecting skills like lock picking and coercion.

Dex builds rely less on other players. Have high enough defense to go 1on1 with enemies and have a much higher hit rate. Making the need for backstabbing and positioning alot less important then a cunning rogue. Dex builds also take a lot less time to get started and you will be more effective earlier then a cunning rogue. There are less required talents to take and over allow the builds to be a little more versatile.

[DWSmiley]

The verdict is that rogue builds are much more versatile than mage and warrior builds. Max dex, max cunning, dex&str, dex&cunning - they all have their advantages. So go with whatever is the most fun.

[ColaQueen]

Princess stabity! The most fun kind of rogue...just sayin'

[Ser Kory]

You can't ever say one build is ever better, because each build you make will be better at certain things, no build is good at EVERYTHING enough to be called the best.

[TheBigMatt90]

Think we already got that point covered lol.

[USArmyParatrooper]

I've never understood why the DEX/CUN mix build is seldom discussed. I build my rogues that way and end up with a nice balance of excellent damage and defense. It's really only two attributes you have to pump so there's no reason to skimp on either.

[TheBigMatt90]

I agree, it is my preferred build for rogues. I get around 60 Dex and 60 Con by the end, however i did put points in things i should have, so it could prolly be 70/70 with only them pumped.

[Doriath]

USArmyParatrooper wrote...

I've never understood why the DEX/CUN mix build is seldom discussed. I build my rogues that way and end up with a nice balance of excellent damage and defense. It's really only two attributes you have to pump so there's no reason to skimp on either.

It was discussed when the game was still fresh but the fact is, its not as efficient as max cunning. You're doing less damage on a character designed for DPS. A dual wield rogue should be backstabbing 90% of the time anyway so what do you need defense for? You shouldn't be getting hit in the first place. There are exceptions of cousre, but for the majority of the game defense on a backstabbing rogue is largely irrelevant.

Modifié par chrisnabal, 27 janvier 2011 - 01:32 .

[Yrkoon]

chrisnabal wrote...

USArmyParatrooper wrote...

I've never understood why the DEX/CUN mix build is seldom discussed. I build my rogues that way and end up with a nice balance of excellent damage and defense. It's really only two attributes you have to pump so there's no reason to skimp on either.

It was discussed when the game was still fresh but the fact is, its not as efficient as max cunning. You're doing less damage on a character designed for DPS. A dual wield rogue should be backstabbing 90% of the time anyway so what do you need defense for? You shouldn't be getting hit in the first place. There are exceptions of cousre, but for the majority of the game defense on a backstabbing rogue is largely irrelevant.

Well, I think the argument  that people put up for a Dex build involves more than  Defense.   It's also about attack ratings,  That is the one area where cunning builds do not beat out dex builds.  I'd rather my rogue never miss.

[Doriath]

With 32/36 dex for prereq, you're not missing much anyway. There are other ways of boosting attack rating without giving up attribute points. Its preference though. I'm just saying that for pure DPS, max cunning the best option. Its been proven on here.

[Ace Attorney]

If you have a party with 3 Melee guys (you, Tank, and a Warrior/Rogue, which is going to be my setup probably) does the Cunning rogue get the edge due to Bard buffs?

Well given the talk about hybrid Dex/Cunning builds, I wonder what Specializations do they take?
Bard/Assassin is popular in Cunning builds due to the obvious high Cunning, but would hybrids use Bard too?

Modifié par T3hAnubis, 27 janvier 2011 - 02:13 .

[Yrkoon]

T3hAnubis wrote...

If you have a party with 3 Melee guys (you, Tank, and a Warrior/Rogue, which is going to be my setup probably) does the Cunning rogue get the edge due to Bard buffs?

  Obviously a Song of Courage from a Cun build will be better, if that's what you're asking.  But not by as much as  many people think.  you really *really* have to pump cunning to  get that major difference.

With 30 cunning, a song of courage will boost your party's critical chance by 5%, their attack score by 5 and their damage by 3.

With 90 cunning, a song of courage will  double those numbers.....  at the cost of about 60 defense and about  about +25 attack  had you put those extra 60 points into dex.  Something to think about.

Well given the talk about hybrid Dex/Cunning builds, I wonder what Specializations do they take?
Bard/Assassin is popular in Cunning builds due to the obvious high Cunning, but would hybrids use Bard too?

My hybrids typically  do Assassin/Duelist, and then I bring Lilianna  along and let her do  Song of Courage.  Though there is something to be said for stacking two  SoC's....

Modifié par Yrkoon, 27 janvier 2011 - 02:49 .

[Ace Attorney]

Yrkoon wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...

If you have a party with 3 Melee guys (you, Tank, and a Warrior/Rogue, which is going to be my setup probably) does the Cunning rogue get the edge due to Bard buffs?

  Obviously a Song of Courage from a Cun build will be better, if that's what you're asking.  But not by as much as  many people think.  you really *really* have to pump cunning to  get that major difference.

With 30 cunning, a song of courage will boost your party's critical chance by 5%, their attack score by 5 and their damage by 3.

With 90 cunning, a song of courage will  double those numbers.....  at the cost of about 60 defense and about  about +25 attack  had you put those extra 60 points into dex.  Something to think about.

Well given the talk about hybrid Dex/Cunning builds, I wonder what Specializations do they take?
Bard/Assassin is popular in Cunning builds due to the obvious high Cunning, but would hybrids use Bard too?

My hybrids typically  do Assassin/Duelist, and then I bring Lilianna  along and let her do  Song of Courage.  Though there is something to be said for stacking two  SoC's....

The formula is different I think:

http://dragonage.wik...Song_of_Courage
"The bard launches into an epic song of the party's exploits, gaining (3+0.1*[Cunn-10]) attack, (2+0.05*[Cunn-10]) damage and (3+0.1*[Cunn-10])% critical chance while singing"

[Yrkoon]

T3hAnubis wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

T3hAnubis wrote...

If you have a party with 3 Melee guys (you, Tank, and a Warrior/Rogue, which is going to be my setup probably) does the Cunning rogue get the edge due to Bard buffs?

  Obviously a Song of Courage from a Cun build will be better, if that's what you're asking.  But not by as much as  many people think.  you really *really* have to pump cunning to  get that major difference.

With 30 cunning, a song of courage will boost your party's critical chance by 5%, their attack score by 5 and their damage by 3.

With 90 cunning, a song of courage will  double those numbers.....  at the cost of about 60 defense and about  about +25 attack  had you put those extra 60 points into dex.  Something to think about.

Well given the talk about hybrid Dex/Cunning builds, I wonder what Specializations do they take?
Bard/Assassin is popular in Cunning builds due to the obvious high Cunning, but would hybrids use Bard too?

My hybrids typically  do Assassin/Duelist, and then I bring Lilianna  along and let her do  Song of Courage.  Though there is something to be said for stacking two  SoC's....

The formula is different I think:

http://dragonage.wik...Song_of_Courage
"The bard launches into an epic song of the party's exploits, gaining (3+0.1*[Cunn-10]) attack, (2+0.05*[Cunn-10]) damage and (3+0.1*[Cunn-10])% critical chance while singing"

Nope.  Math seems about right to me.

[DWSmiley]

FWIW, I played a max cunning rogue archer (duelist/bard), and finished with an overall hit rate of 90%. I also played a max dex warrior archer and finished with a hit rate of 93%. The party dynamics were completely different, of course, but that's not a bad thing.

[USArmyParatrooper]

I like a DEX/CUN build because I like to be versetile. My rogues are still the highest damage dealer in the party, they're excellent backstabbers and even with base CON they have enough defense and evasion to act as a tank. There is one downside, though, with base CON spells like crushing prison can really hurt you.



But those risks can be mitigated by steathing ahead and doing a recon of the battlefield. Once you see where the mages are there's a variety if tactics you can employ.



I like to wait behind one mage, call in the troops and instruct Alisair to smite the other mage. As soon as they roll in rip your mage to shreds.

[Doriath]

USArmyParatrooper wrote...There is one downside, though, with base CON spells like crushing prison can really hurt you.

Bring a mage (or two) with forcefield. Problem solved.

[Johnsen1972]

Dagger / Dagger / Dexterteriy Builds are invincible.

Here is a video of my last mission. I almost soloed Dragon Age in nightmare. Basic Strategy: Sneek up to mages first, kill mages first, then Ogers and then the rest.
 

I just had 20 base STR and 30 Base Cunning ( to open all chests) and put ALL my other points in Dexterity. At level 25 I had 88 base Dexterity.

Modifié par Johnsen1972, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:36 .

[DWSmiley]

Johnsen1972 wrote...

Dagger / Dagger / Dexterteriy Builds are invincible.

Here is a video of my last mission. I almost soloed Dragon Age in nightmare. Basic Strategy: Sneek up to mages first, kill mages first, then Ogers and then the rest.
 

Dex DW is a great way to start soloing.  But I learned the hard way that the priority has to be spiders, then mages.  Webs and overwhelms are nasty while a pair of dweomer laden daggers + Spellward makes mages fairly harmless.

[Mr_Steph]

chrisnabal wrote...

USArmyParatrooper wrote...There is one downside, though, with base CON spells like crushing prison can really hurt you.

Bring a mage (or two) with forcefield. Problem solved.

Or something like a templar with cleanse area or a mage with something like dispel magic.