224 réponses à ce sujet

[Juliaxo]

ScotOfClanDonald wrote...
Thanks.  Miraculous cures really bother me on a literary level.

It's pretty awesome if we fight for a cure and then fail, though.  Fighting to survive even though it's hopeless is really interesting, and adds some poignancy to the story. 

If Kepral's really is a death sentence, then we have to ask: do we have a chance against the galaxy's death sentence, the Reapers?

This is good storytelling.  There's a right way to handle characters with a terminal illness, and a wrong way.  Curing them miraculously at the eleventh hour really is the wrong way.

Which isn't to say that you can never have good drama about curing a terminal illness.  In my opinion, though, the cure is often worse than the disease.  On a literary level, it usually means that someone else that you care about has to die.  Nothing is ever free.

So, I say let Thane die.  He's more than redeemed himself already by stopping the Collectors, and he can at least go down fighting the good fight.

Did it bother you that Shepard came back from the dead? In the universe these characters live in, apparently it's possible  yet you insist that it's unthinkable that Thane can get treatment for his lung disease? Even though we know that he's viable for a lung transplant?

I see people repeating the same thing "he should die because it'd be dramatic" and they completely ignore the fact that Bioware have already hinted that Thane still has options. And why do people assume curing him would be due to "fangirl" demand? Ever think that maybe they had a plan for his character from the start and that they always intended for there to be a choice depending on how the player interacted with him?

Depending on how they write it, keeping him alive has more potential because it gives them a chance to develop his character and his relationship with Shepard further. Killing him off would be a waste of a wonderful character.

[habitat 67]

Thane's death would be dramatic and severe and a funeral would be a great game concept

but

Unfortunately, with Thane there exists undeniably one of the best characters Bioware has ever created ever. (and he's a sniper)



We need to save him, dammit.

[matt-bassist]

Because it will makes the entire concept of his character redundant if he suddenly isn't dying anymore.

Shepard NEEDED to come back. He died like a punk, hunting down Geth. Thane's whole backstory and the fact that he's dying makes him compelling. A cure would greatly reduce the impact of his redemption story.

[habitat 67]

matt-bassist wrote...

Because it will makes the entire concept of his character redundant if he suddenly isn't dying anymore.
Shepard NEEDED to come back. He died like a punk, hunting down Geth. Thane's whole backstory and the fact that he's dying makes him compelling. A cure would greatly reduce the impact of his redemption story.

I completely respect what you're saying but for Thane I think we need to make an exception.

[matt-bassist]

it is the main thing. what is more important than him dying??? him wanting to see his son, wanting to end his life, regretting his life, wanting to atone; it all stems from him dying.

take off your rose-tinted glasses you thane fangirl and see the big picture.

[Kusy]

matt-bassist wrote...
A cure would greatly reduce the impact of his redemption story.

I kind of agree here. But still I support Thane being cured. I say let them do it and then judge if they made him into a boring and purposeless character.

[monima]

matt-bassist wrote...

it is the main thing. what is more important than him dying??? him wanting to see his son, wanting to end his life, regretting his life, wanting to atone; it all stems from him dying.
take off your rose-tinted glasses you thane fangirl and see the big picture.

He would have died without seeing his son, had his son not decided to become a hitman. He wants to atone because he killed the batarians in anger and hatred after is wifes death. The rest of his hits Thane actually doesnt care about, and doesnt think he needs redemption for. Thats part of his philosphy, he is just the weapon, not the one that pulled the trigger.

Rose tinted or not,there are things already in the game indicating means that are at least capable of prolonging his life.

[habitat 67]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

matt-bassist wrote...
A cure would greatly reduce the impact of his redemption story.

I kind of agree here. But still I support Thane being cured. I say let them do it and then judge if they made him into a boring and purposeless character.

As usual, I agree with Mr. Kusy. Let's do it and critisize it later if it doesn't go well.

[flem1]

Juliaxo wrote...

Did it bother you that Shepard came back from the dead?

No, but only because Shep dying in the first place was a throwaway plot twist you didn't find out about until about two minutes before you were alive again.

If ME1 had been about building up to Shepard making the Ultimate Sacrifice, *damn straight* I (and a lot of others) would have been furious about Lazarus.

Modifié par flem1, 28 janvier 2011 - 02:21 .

[Kusy]

Let's look at it from this point:

Dude was compleatly ready to die, he was sure that there's nothing more for him out there. It's not that he was doomed to death, he wanted to die.
So he figures he might as well go out with a bang and help save the galaxy - he joins a suicide squad and goes after the Collectors.
He was not expecting that Shepard will show any actual interest in his personal issues, he never talked with anyone abou them. Now it shows up that he found a friend who seems to understand him, who helps him redeem himself, he's forced to remember that his son is still out there, that his romantic plan to send the kid a post-mortem message failed... and again, it shows up there's someone there for him to help fix this mess up. It shows up he can still work things out with his son or at least try to, he has a friend or friends (depending on other squadmembers attitude that was left for our imagination I guess), that there are people who see him as a person, not only a tool of assasination. Fuck! I'd be the happiest man in the whole galaxy! Why would he still want to die? Why wouldn't he jump at the first chance of keeping and expanding all this possitive stuff he never even thought could happen after his wife died or never even knew could happen? Now this doesn't make sense and would make Thane a flat and less interesting character.

And this is a male Shepard situation - with a femshep add to that someone who loves him and care about him in the relationshipy way.

If I can pull this kind of explanation out of my ass in 5 minutes why assume that BioWare can't do a good job at developing his character and making it all even more compelling storywise?

On a side note - yes, if you are playing a max renegade Shepard, don't talk with Thane in a possitive manner and screw up his loyality mission - your Thane should still be the sad suicidal loner he was before, and die if he hasn't already died during the strike on Collector's base - I couldn't agree more on this.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 28 janvier 2011 - 02:45 .

[matt-bassist]

But thats the for me problem Kusy, I LIKE Thane. I think he's one of the best squadmembers. And the reason I like him is because of the tragic nature of his existence. I don't want a DLC to cure him in ME2 and watch him become a cookie-cutter 'cool' 'alien' assassin.

[matt-bassist]

Now if it was a major part of his character's development in ME3... well there is something I think I could definitely get on board with.

[Hedgepath]

Will preface with - this has been debated so many times, in so many threads, that I'm wondering why folks feel the urge to open a new one, instead of posting on any of those multiple threads.................
________________________________________________________________________________
matt-bassist wrote:
it is the main thing. what is more important than him dying??? him wanting to see his son, wanting to end his life, regretting his life, wanting to atone; it all stems from him dying.
take off your rose-tinted glasses you thane fangirl and see the big picture.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Really dude? Big picture? Like, assassins have to be dying to want to see their son, end their life, regret their life, want to atone??? So, assassins that are NOT dying, all wanna keep killing, don't want to atone, don't feel regret, etc, etc, etc (get where I'm going here) How many books, movies and real life stories are all about assassins doing just these types of things, because, assassin work sucks. It's a lonely, ruthless job, where you can trust no one, have no long term relationships, no permanent "roots", and contrive to be anonymous. You quell your humanity, kill people, suppress emotions, hide your morality, have multiple identities and attempt to "be the best"......The assassin who feels nothing, has no real identity, and just "lives for the job", usually burns out after awhile. How the burnout occurs may define the assassin:
- sociopath, "out inna blaze of glory, taking loads of people, innocent or guilty with" or sells self as merc
 - regretter,  "atone for the badness I feel I've done, and try to gain back my humanity by doing good things",
    searches for family and "observes" in background, or acts as an avenger
 -  denier, "retirement mode, tries to live quietly, low profile, but the past always surfaces to haunt" or goes
     quietly insane

So, still going with the, "dying is the main thing,"see the big picture, fangirl, stems from dying" theory????

Modifié par Hedgepath, 28 janvier 2011 - 11:58 .

[matt-bassist]

firstly, this thread has been going for a while now. i actually made it a few minutes after the whole thane/cure thing popped up. there have been some good discussions here throughout. don't cry because you're late to the party, and dont' come with your condescending tone "i dont see WHY folks have to make new threads all the time!". idiot.



secondly, please take the time to read what i wrote in the context in which it was written. your reply just confirms my point of view and cements your reputation as the most bone-headed thane fangirl ive seen yet.



the point of all of thane's journey in ME2 (regardless of whats come before) is that he wants to atone for his sins because he is dying. he wants to do something for him, to do something right. this is why he goes with Shepard on the suicide mission. his imminent death is the driving force behind his entire motivation. why the hell can't you thane fangirls see this? you're so blinded by your thane-shep romance you fail on every level to understand the deeper nature of thane's personality.



SO, to put it bluntly, NO. Assassins don't have to be dying to want to see their son, end their life, regret their life or want to atone. But Thane IS dying. And that's what makes him a compellng character.



The end.

[Hedgepath]

"There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe what is true.' Kierkegaard



Since I am not crying, nor condescending, your interpretations of my context are in error. You do not have the facts that you base your negative comments on. How do you know whether I have romanced Thane? That I am a fangirl? Do you possess a psych degree that allows you insight into psychoanalysis of personality or behavior? I suspect you do not, therefore your entire response is in error, EXCEPT for one derogatory word- I am an idiot for responding to the opinionated writings of a closed minded fool, on a 9 page thread. As there is no arguing with a fool, and "context" is in the interpretation, I leave you to your erroneous evaluation of the very context you misinterpret.



ne pas respecter

[Evil Johnny 666]

Hedgepath wrote...

"There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true, the other is to refuse to believe what is true.' Kierkegaard

Since I am not crying, nor condescending, your interpretations of my context are in error. You do not have the facts that you base your negative comments on. How do you know whether I have romanced Thane? That I am a fangirl? Do you possess a psych degree that allows you insight into psychoanalysis of personality or behavior? I suspect you do not, therefore your entire response is in error, EXCEPT for one derogatory word- I am an idiot for responding to the opinionated writings of a closed minded fool, on a 9 page thread. As there is no arguing with a fool, and "context" is in the interpretation, I leave you to your erroneous evaluation of the very context you misinterpret.

ne pas respecter

One part pretentious, one part seeing too far. No need of psychoanalysis for such forum threads really. C'est pas mal une attitude de fangirl tant qu'à moi. Everything he said makes sense.

[flem1]

Hedgepath wrote...

How do you know whether I have romanced Thane? That I am a fangirl?

Either you lost a sig bet or you romanced Thane. I very much doubt it's the former.

Oh, those pesky pictures...

[Pacifien]

A reminder that contrary opinions are allowed and you are supposed to approach each discussion with some respect for your fellow poster per the Site Rules of Conduct. If you cannot, I suggest not posting to the thread.

[habitat 67]

Mr.Kusy wrote...
Dude was compleatly ready to die, he was sure that there's nothing more for him out there. It's not that he was doomed to death, he wanted to die.
So he figures he might as well go out with a bang and help save the galaxy - he joins a suicide squad and goes after the Collectors.
He was not expecting that Shepard will show any actual interest in his personal issues, he never talked with anyone abou them. Now it shows up that he found a friend who seems to understand him, who helps him redeem himself, he's forced to remember that his son is still out there, that his romantic plan to send the kid a post-mortem message failed... and again, it shows up there's someone there for him to help fix this mess up. It shows up he can still work things out with his son or at least try to, he has a friend or friends (depending on other squadmembers attitude that was left for our imagination I guess), that there are people who see him as a person, not only a tool of assasination. Fuck! I'd be the happiest man in the whole galaxy! Why would he still want to die? Why wouldn't he jump at the first chance of keeping and expanding all this possitive stuff he never even thought could happen after his wife died or never even knew could happen? Now this doesn't make sense and would make Thane a flat and less interesting character.

This works. It works well.

[DJBare]

"I love/like thane but I don't want him to be cured"

Does anyone else see something wrong with that sentence?

I certainly will not lose respect for Bioware if a cure is found, we know from the story that the possibility exists, a cure found can be emotionally charged also.

[habitat 67]

DJBare wrote...

"I love/like thane but I don't want him to be cured"
Does anyone else see something wrong with that sentence?
I certainly will not lose respect for Bioware if a cure is found, we know from the story that the possibility exists, a cure found can be emotionally charged also.

A cure can always be found and worked on. Although I admit, if Sean Connery in a ponytail had anything to do with it , I'd work very hard indeed. He is the Medicine Man, after all.

[monima]

matt-bassist wrote...

the point of all of thane's journey in ME2 (regardless of whats come before) is that he wants to atone for his sins because he is dying. he wants to do something for him, to do something right. this is why he goes with Shepard on the suicide mission. his imminent death is the driving force behind his entire motivation. why the hell can't you thane fangirls see this? you're so blinded by your thane-shep romance you fail on every level to understand the deeper nature of thane's personality.

SO, to put it bluntly, NO. Assassins don't have to be dying to want to see their son, end their life, regret their life or want to atone. But Thane IS dying. And that's what makes him a compellng character.

The end.

A very condescending comment to anyone who sees Thane in a different waythen you do. If thats all you see in Than, fine, but please refrain from telling other people what they should think about a character.
Many people want Thane cured. The main point that worries people is if it written poorly.

There are already in the game options to at least prolong his life.  And its not written by fangirls but by Bioware. I trust they will do what they do best and give us a good story.

Modifié par monimakitten, 30 janvier 2011 - 01:29 .

[Urazz]

Yeah, I hope they don't get him a cure.  If anything, I don't mind if they get him a minor cure that extends his life by a year or 2 or however long it takes for before ME3 starts.