81 réponses à ce sujet

[Vaalyah]

He first says "thank you for the place with the roof", then you have options like "tell me about SoU and HotU" and "farewell". If the dialogue is fixed, I can also see "show me your stuff". Now, this latter option is not shown.

I tried both codes, only the second worked, but now it doesn't work anymore... By the way, I'm in act 3.

[kevL]

sry, didn't see page 2 here ..

I think I'm stumped. Anyone who's (really) good with Conversations here, feel free to jump in. You see, Deekin (module '2100_Crossroad_Keep_A2', conversation '21_deekin') has 7 nodes coming off the Root. But, and this I don't 'get', the very first node has no conditions set .. which means it should always fire as Deek's first line. This is the "happy to have a roof" line.

How does the game get the subsequent nodes to show, when the first node (since no condition is set therein) always shows??? I mean, for example, the 5th node is supposed to trigger and show up for Act III; the 6th, after the Siege; the 2nd & 3rd, when certain conditions have been met, upgrading the Keep.

Yet, even if something is funky at a more basic level, you should be able to get the store to show up (off the first, unconditional node) by entering

rs ga_local_int("store_upgrade", "1", "21_deekin")


notes: The above command doesn't require the first, "store_once" command mentioned earlier (page 1 of thread). The above condition stands on its own and appears to open an Act III store for the Deeks.

Vaal, make sure you close down the game entirely and load it from scratch. Doing this ought overwrite the temp folder, which might be remembering a bit too much for these commands to take effect.

& why don't you take a look at the conversation in the Toolset, you might notice something i'm missing?

[kamal_]

Indeed, it looks like his first line fires all the time, there's no conditional on it and it's an "always" line. The other lines should never appear based on that logic. Not that it matters, since they have no actual difference, but looks like a bug with the OC there.

[I_Raps]

I'm guessing, here, that Vaalyah has the "Deekin Merchant Fix" in her overrides, and that it's not compatible with her Italian installation.

[Vaalyah]

First of all: thank you, my heroes, for having come here to help me! :-D

1) I really would like to have a look in my toolset but... to say the truth, I'm learning texturing and landscaping, but I still don't know anything about dialogues. So, can you tell me what I have to do to check the dialogue, please? For now, I can send you screenshot, if needed.

2) my OC is patched and I also have MotB installed (and patched), moreover, the first times, Deekin showed his inventory without any problem...

3) if the name of this fix has something like "deekin" or "merchant" in its filename, no, I haven't. The only thing I put in my override folder in the last 2 months is the fix for the Construct upgrade (linked by kevL in the first page of this thread) and as I said above, Deekin in the past showed the inventory at the Keep without problem...

[kevL]

hi V,
first, Did you try reloading game from scratch (complete restart of the game) and entering

rs ga_local_int("store_upgrade", "1", "21_deekin")

? I'm very curious ..

And. To look at Deekin's dialog, simply open the toolset, navigate to and Open module '2100_Crossroad_Keep_A2' (it's under your NWN2installation folder->modules), then go to Open Conversation / Script (under File menu), and in the filter box type "deekin". The file '21_deekin.DLG' should appear, double click it, or choose it and Open Selected. The main window will fill with the dialog-Tree. If you scroll the window to the right you should see some columns, the main ones being "Actions", "Conditions", and "Quest". Basically those have scripts pertaining to Deek's conversation lines and likely you'll recognize some of them.

Do not save anything. Be patient & very careful.

(Advanced note: at the bottom of the dialog editor, on the left, are some tabs, which pertain to the scripts and camera etc.)

now, ignore the rest of my post, it's merely meta-meta-gaming .. for anyone interested in what might be going on with Deekin's convo.

--
(written yesterday) Thanks for the sanity check, Kamal_

nwn2.wikia.com seems to agree:

Jacoby's, Deeken's, Uncus's, Edario's, and Caelryna Seerar's stores are using an outdated and buggy store/appraise function which was fixed and updated in later game patches, all merchants in Neverwinter use the new fixed function, but Obsidian forgot to fix the merchants at Crossroad Keep. Also, Deeken's store is supposed to improve twice (new items and his prices go down) once you improve the Keep, but this is never triggered, as Deeken's conversation is horribly bugged.

well, after investigating I_Raps' advice, I came across this, advertised as "Deekin Inventory (Dialog) Fix" - but I'd hardly call it a fix .. it addressed the no-conditional first node, yet leaves a bunch (4) of conditional scripts 'gc_local_int' under the Action tab. I can't see how it affects things adversely, however, I_Raps (if Vaal's even using it, or perhaps there's another one out there). I can say that, although I'm fixing it up for my own install so that later nodes become viable (the Undrentide and Waterdeep nodes are supposed to fire only once, for instance), and HOLY DIANA!

get this .. the condition for Node#2 is "if greater than 5" fire. The condition for Node#3 is "if greater than 10" fire. Ergo Node#2 always fires, never #3 .. thanks, corporate globocracy!!!

(anyone ever heard the myth of Atlantis? ok, don't go there ..)

BUT, to make a story short, I see no reason why Deek's store shouldn't open by loading the game from scratch and entering just the command in bold, 4rd post above (if your - Vaalyah's - override is clear & good, Deekin's first node slides right into it!)



proof is in the puddin'
ps. just checked the command itself, it works fine for changing Deekin's store (though that might not be the entire issue).

pps. further fubar: Deekin's prices rise when they're supposed to drop (if those nodes even fired with the standard patches!!)

ppps. WRFan addressed Deekin's dialog in NWN2_Plot_Fixes; not sure how well it's implemented, so gonna do me own ....

pppps. lots of peeps have probs. with Deekin's store, a Google search says.

ppppps. tl;dr, *shrug* See command in bold, above.

[Vaalyah]

Yes, I just come back from the game and tried re-entering the code. Nothing happened. I had not played since yesterday (and the computer has been switched off for hours :-P ) so "complete restart" :-D

It's late so I don't have time to read and answer all your long post (English is not my language, so I am slow!) I'll come back tomorrow for have a look. Now I really need to sleep!

[kevL]

ok sleep snug honestly, there isn't much that could fix Deeks in what I wrote above,


Deekin. you, you .. kobold! .. i suggest, Vaalyah, you look at both your Overrides (under both MyDocs and Installation) and if there is anything in them, rename the folder to override_bk

then try the complete game restart, with the command above.


(Don't forget to change them back, later.)

.. maybe I should make the dialog I'm working on for CK Deeks available at the Vault


@ I_Raps, do you really think it has something to do with a non-English Dialog.tlk? intuition?

@ Vaalyah, you said on the last page that Deekin was broke then some codes got him to open his shop again, right? any chance you can remember / repeat that, if so it's a decent place to attempt The fix

--
(okay, figured this out:)

.. the condition for Node#2 is "if greater than 5" fire. The condition for Node#3 is "if greater than 10" fire. Ergo Node#2 always fires, never #3 ..

Obsidian used the Show Once per Module/Game option, to skip past Node#2 after it played once (tho it might never play). Still seems like too much 'because we Can' stuff goin on (sic) .. just replaced that by inverting the order and adding conditional checks

[Vaalyah]

I've already checked in both the override folder, no file like that. However, I will try to remove them to see what'd happen.

https://lh4.googleus...alogoDeekin.jpg
here's a screenshot of the Deekin's dialog tree. The blue line from top are [continue] and the second one is "show me the things you sell". But I never get that option. Instead I get the "Have you ever thought about travelling again?" which is the first blue line of real dialogue, after all those [END DIALOGUE] commands. Hope this could help.

Going to open the game and doing some checks.


EDIT
Removed the override folder: no improvement. Without override folder, entered the command: no improvement. Which other checks I have to do now? Please, let me know.

Modifié par Vaalyah, 11 février 2011 - 08:49 .

[kevL]

well, sad to say I'm out of ideas

i've uploaded a dialog fix for Deekin to the vault, it's waiting approval; but it's not an inventory fix per se. will let you know when it's available and then you might try it to see if it helps.


meanwhile, would you like to learn something about Dialogs? The screenshot looks very familiar (minus the Italian

just above that window is a row of hot-buttons, one of them is "Columns" - turn everything on under Columns. Highlight (select) the line "Let me see your wares" (the top one). Then as you scroll the dialog window to the right-wise, you should see everything that pertains to the implementation of that line of dialog.

Notice the column, Conditions. Those are scripts that are checked to determine whether or not the line shows up inGame. That's what I've been focusing on here. If you drop down four (4) lines, there's the gc_local_int script with the condition "store_upgrade, 1" - the empty brackets just after mean OBJECT_SELF, or in this case '21_deekin'. I imagine someday you'll devour code like a hobgoblin, Vaalyah ..

nb. gc_local_int is the script that checks variables; ga_local_int is the script we've been using to set those variables.

[I_Raps]

kevL wrote...
@ I_Raps, do you really think it has something to do with a non-English Dialog.tlk? intuition?

Not even intuition, just guesswork...  but...

For example, in 21_deekin.dlg there is a line "UPGRADE 2 When this triggers..." which fires a line of text - but it's not just the text written there in that dlg, it's also a String Reference in dialog.tlk.  #143046 to be exact.  If her dialog.tlk doesn't have a 143046, don't we get script fail there?

Many of the designers had no idea about dialog.tlk.   This is why when you alter some items with crafting, their names change (back to the original the item was copied from then modded in the toolset).  Or other fine details, such as why some traps in MOTB yield only unidentified shortswords when you recover them.

Modifié par I_Raps, 12 février 2011 - 12:48 .

[I_Raps]

There are a lot of bugs in the code that are never even seen because the program never gets to them.  So I thought that the Deekin fix might have gotten past a roadblock straight into a missing string reference.


p.s.  How exactly DO you save an edited .dlg from the OCs without saving the mod file?  I've been wanting to fix a few things for a long time - e.g. K has been waiting in the wings to avenge the W.  (spoilers 90% removed)

Modifié par I_Raps, 12 février 2011 - 12:59 .

[kevL]

I_Raps wrote...

kevL wrote...

@ I_Raps, do you really think it has something to do with a non-English Dialog.tlk? intuition?

Not even intuition, just guesswork...  but...

For example, in 21_deekin.dlg there is a line "UPGRADE 2 When this triggers..." which fires a line of text - but it's not just the text written there in that dlg, it's also a String Reference in dialog.tlk.  #143046 to be exact.  If her dialog.tlk doesn't have a 143046, don't we get script fail there?

i have been trying to keep my mind open to this possibility. My *guess* is that if entry #143046 is blank then an empty line in the dialog would still appear, with "1." or in the case of the Speaker, simply no text. I don't believe it would be game-breaking, and there might even be some sort of default that a 'corrupt' Dialog.tlk falls back to .. but my understanding is incomplete here.

It might be an interesting experiment if Vaalyah tries backing up the Spanish .. sorry, Italian Dialog.tlk and uses another one, say the standard Eng. temporarily (i think they're available on the Vault - even Kaedrin's Italian should suffice in a pinch)

Many of the designers had no idea about dialog.tlk.   This is why when you alter some items with crafting, their names change (back to the original the item was copied from then modded in the toolset).  Or other fine details, such as why some traps in MOTB yield only unidentified shortswords when you recover them.

here's a fine point you might know about, I was using TlkEdit2 to insert titles and descriptions from the dialog.tlk, but they would never show up in the Toolset .. after the good ol' headbangin frustration for three days, simply back up & copy the modified MyDocs->dialog.tlk into the Install->NWN2 directory .. sheesh. So, point taken

I_Raps wrote...

There are a lot of bugs in the code that are never even seen because the program never gets to them.  So I thought that the Deekin fix might have gotten past a roadblock straight into a missing string reference.

I'm thinkin even the scripts should fire ok with a missing ref. but only testing can prove it ..

p.s.  How exactly DO you save an edited .dlg from the OCs without saving the mod file?  I've been wanting to fix a few things for a long time - e.g. K has been waiting in the wings to avenge the W.  (spoilers 90% removed)

interesting. Anyway, here's what I figure. If you change anything in a conversation file, then just close the file (right click on its tab ..) the Toolset then prompts if you want to save the Convo. It should save to the temporary directory, or to wherever a custom Convo. was located. Try it with just a simple change to something first, to see if Toolset behavior is the same for yours. (Don't want to do a bunch of work on a Convo. & have it go ~poof~ eh) Then, of course, copy it out of the temp directory before closing TS

[kevL]

Vaalyah,

try tossing this in your MyDocs->Override: Deekin Keep Dialog

Pls let us know if (a) it opens Deek's store & ( let me know if it's not in Latin .. sorry, Italian

[Vaalyah]

1) Thanks KevL for your "quick dialogue tutorial" :-)
2) to all of you: I've seen in that dialogue that after some events, other branches should fire. Is it possible that a bug has not "changed" the branch of the dialogues, so I get problems in seeing it?
3) I've just downloaded the file. I'm trying, I'll come back to let you know.


EDIT
Yes, I'm fast! Ok, I've just checked. Now, when I speak with Deeking I get all the lines. The usual 2 in Italian e the "let me see your wares" in English. Has this been useful for better understanding the problem?

Modifié par Vaalyah, 13 février 2011 - 08:22 .

[kevL]

so, does his store open?

& tbh, no it doesn't better help (me) understand what was wrong. But then, that's often how I fix things with computers: just nudge, poke, cajole, kick, and it usually works ..


ps. i'm going to try to fix that line in English & reupload a newer version.

Edit, woohoo! i'm lookin at an Italian version of Deek's dialog .. don't understand a *^%$ thing, haha!!

Modifié par kevL, 13 février 2011 - 08:59 .

[kevL]

should be Good to Go

@ I_Raps, et al. : I'd made the mistake of editing some lines in the Deek's Keep Dialog, and simply re-referenced them back to the Dialog.tlk .. with due respect to your judgment, i still don't believe the .Tlk is the primary culprit (could be wrong tho). I'm more inclined to think Vaalyah had / has a bad, 'corrupt' or iffy Installation currently that's messing with Deekin's default dialog

as long as it works i'm not too concerned what it is .. great learning and getting comfortable with the dialog editor, here

[Vaalyah]

Do you need some help with the Italian translation? Or maybe, if you tell me what you have done, I could try to do the same on the Italian file...

I've just downloaded your last modified file, but it's late so I don't have time to check how it works. I will let you know tomorrow!

[kevL]

Vaalyah wrote...

Do you need some help with the Italian translation? Or maybe, if you tell me what you have done, I could try to do the same on the Italian file...

no Thanks, Vaal - i recognized enough word-roots to stagger through it, drunk & confused Plus, once you work on a file long enough it doesn't matter what language it's in: it *becomes* computer code

nb. you should not have to change anything in the Italian Dialog.tlk - in fact that's the point, to get things to work with the Italian (etc.) without messing with a .Tlk file

note, I'm still not sure if things are working as you want them to! But I'll try to describe the story to date: Deekin's "open store" line stopped showing up in the game (we tried entering variables that ought have made it show up, & we still don't know why it didn't). My recent upload uses those exact same conditions (for the "show store" nodes), all i did was re-order a few lesser nodes and carefully add a few conditionals to them, to 21_deekin.DLG (advanced: I also cleared most of the "Show Once" options, using Conditions instead). Then without thinking things through, I changed some hidden comments in 21_deekin.DLG (like |Upgrade 1| to |Upgrade 2| because it *is* upgrade_2), and simply had to fix them back because obviously hidden comments aren't as important as what shows up in Game.


now I'm going to mellow out and watch some British history

I've just downloaded your last modified file, but it's late so I don't have time to check how it works. I will let you know tomorrow!

ok, looking forward to it ..

[Vaalyah]

Ok, just checked. The dialogue triggers, but I'm still getting the entry in English. Not a big deal, to say the truth, I can use it like that. However, from what I've understood, you had modified the file to be multilingual... in that case, I don't think it's working...

[kevL]

suggestion: Search your override for 21_deekin.DLG, delete them, then re-download the file from the Vault ..



'cause mine's in Italian ;]

Fammi vedere le tue merci.

[Vaalyah]

Well, I had already done that, but it still doesn't work. Just for reference, few minutes ago I re-re-downloaded the file, put it in my override folder after deleting the previous, and here's the result (just done)

https://lh3.googleus...1511_204202.jpg

[kevL]

hm,
I download the file .. to a temp folder
I search my Override for "21_deekin" .. add "~" to indicate a back-up version
.. move the new download to my Override
.. make sure my Italian Dialog.tlk is active (I haven't edited my Italian .Tlk, btw)

Open the Toolset,
twiddle thumbs enjoying funky new color-scheme ..
File->Open Conversation / Script
filter "21_deekin", Open the download
And I get this


Try opening the file in your Toolset, Vaalyah. Get clever and click on each of the four "Open Store" lines; for each one, look in the bottom right corner of the TS and note down the 'String ref' - for me, the first line is '143095' and the last three are '143112'. Those refer to entries in Dialog.tlk ..

now, There is a quirk about the Toolset that means you have to click "Edit String Ref..." and Okay the box that pops up. (If you don't, the TS implies it's using the String but can't be sure until you've clicked Okay.) If you like, use TlkEdit2 & investigate the entries for '143095' and '143112' in your Dialog.tlk (nb. the English version adds a hidden comment to line 143112, hence the two different ref's).


this is the information you need to fix the language-issue

(though i strongly suspect there's another 21_deekin.DLG hiding someplace .. if i were sitting at your computer, try a full hardrive search)

EDIT, oh wait a sec. What's that little box that says "English"?? investigating ..
EDIT 2, but all lines say 'English' - or 'Italian' if i switch it to Italian. doesn't seem to make any difference ..

Modifié par kevL, 15 février 2011 - 09:09 .

[kevL]

ps. I saw your new thread under the Toolset forum, Vaal. Good idea, btw. I'll post here for two reasons (1) don't want to prejudice hopeful answers, (2) that dropdown box (Italian, English, etc.) seems relevant here.

Honestly I don't understand why they have that language box : i Could if the various Dialog.tlk's were named differently (say, Dialog_en.tlk, Dialog_it.tlk, etc.), but they aren't ... I mean, for example, I still have the Italian Dialog enabled and when I do what you did, Add new line, this comes up "Inserisci il testo qui" (transl. 'enter text here'), but the dropdown above says "English" regardlessly. Like yours, I switch to 'Italian' and it disappears. I switch back and it reappears. (This behavior is the same with the English Dialog enabled.)

For a while I thought that when referencing the Dialog.tlk, the Conversation file might store different StringRefs for the different languages .. but I just tested that and it doesn't seem to do that at all, ie. when a StrRef is changed for one language it instantly changes for all the others also.

So what is the point of that dropdown??? it seems superfluous (irrelevant, unnecessary, redundant, not needed in any way, shape, or form). (but, See below.)




(not sure if you've figured this out yet) There are two ways to write dialog. One is to simply type in the text you wish to appear (ie, language specific). The second is to click "Edit String Ref..." and use a numerical reference to the Dialog.tlk (multi-lingual) or more usually a 'Custom.tlk'.

The latter method requires more work, but means that an original module can be translated far easier. It would mean typing dialog into a Custom.tlk, then Referencing the dialog-lines via the conversation file.

(disclaimer, i've never used a Custom.tlk ..)





EDIT 3, i think I've figured out what that Language dropdown box does: if the author knows multiple languages, he/she can insert the appropriate dialog under each given language, and the *Conversation *file* will remember what's been written accordingly. (But this hypothesis has nothing to do with Dialog.tlk, only with what language-version of NWN2 the enduser has chosen to install).

This means there are three (3) ways to write dialog:
1. simply write it in the nodes and hope other players use the same language-version installation.
2. use a Custom.tlk file, that can be translated fairly easily; use String Refs. in the dialog nodes.
3. enter translations using the language dropdown, and what other players see (if anything) will again be dependent on what language-version they've installed.


that's my working hypothesis, but i can't see that it has anything to do with why "Let me see your wares" is still showing up, V. ( I used method #2 for v1.1, by far the most multi-language-compatible method, using default translations from Dialog.tlk (instead of a Custom.tlk) )

[Vaalyah]

In random order:

1) I've done a full search, but there is just one 21_deekin.dlg file, the one in my override folder. I'm really devoted to computer, so I usually don't mess up with files or similar :-P

2) I've added a post in my other thread to explain a bit better my issue. I think I have been misunderstood. (I shared your same opinion, that is "I can create multi-language dialogues by switching the language", as in the name of the maps. But it doesn't seem to work)

3) what does this mean? ".. make sure my Italian Dialog.tlk is active (I haven't edited my Italian .Tlk, btw)"

4) my StringRef from top to bottom [open store] command: 143113; 143112; 143112; 143112. So, what should I do? Modify the first StingRef?