20 réponses à ce sujet

[Ser Kory]

I know mages are a very complicated bunch, and there are so many paths to choose when it comes to making a mage. I hope to add many guides here for the large array of different mage types there are, and how to use them. Keep in mind this guide is strictly for Origins, and does not include any DLC.

Upcoming builds are going to be:

Support Caster
Tank
Melee DPS
Controller

... and many more to come!

PS. Any suggestions or advice will be taken into consideration and credit will be given to those deserving.

Mage Builds

Pure Caster:

This is the quintessential mage. The mage you always hear about in stories, and see fighting alongside warriors and rogues in small parties of adventurers. This mage specializes in the use of Primal and Spirit magic, though sometimes borrows from the other schools of magic for a spell or two. Remember, the focus is killing your enemy outright, not hindering them, or helping your party.

Attributes

There are two things a Pure Caster needs, spellpower and a large mana pool.

Str Base
Dex Base
Will 25-30
Mag Maximum
Cun Base
Con Base

Specializations
A pure caster can be a(n):

• Shapeshifter, for more survivability
• Spirit Healer, for some extra party support
• Arcane Warrior, for even more survivability by wearing armor, if their mana pool is high enough
• Blood Mage, for more raw power

Spells

The Pure Caster wants spells that deal plenty of damage, and just a few spells that heal/support. At first, go straight for the Cold and Electrical lines, as Cold has some utility along with it's damage, and Electrical has some amazing power. Next, go for the Telekinesis line, or you may even want to get Spell Might, as it opens up storm of the century. At level 13, start with your specializations, as they will come in handy later in the game, as the enemies get craftier. This is just a guideline, however, and you may choose to take other spells in the Primal school, and maybe complete the Arcane line. Spells in other schools you may want include: Drain Life, Vulnerability Hex, Weakness, Paralyze, Heal, Spell Wisp or Glyph of Paralysis.




Support Caster:
The support caster is the Healer, the Buffer, and the all around good-guy in the party. A good Support Caster stays away from the fighting, and only uses his most powerful spells as a last resort, conserving mana, while keeping a close eye on the battlefield. It truly requires a lot of self control to achieve the master status of a Support Caster.

Attributes

The support caster benefits from being hit less by archers and warriors who make it bast the front lines, and of course, magic is a must.

Str Base
Dex 20-25
Will Base
Mag Maximum
Cun Base
Con Base

Specializations

A pure caster can be a(n):

• Shapeshifter, so they can both survive attacks, and flee from them as a swarm
• Spirit Healer, so they may have access to the most powerful support spells
• Arcane Warrior, for even more survivability by wearing armor, at the cost of spellcasting (not ideal for a regular support caster)
• Blood Mage, for an alternate mana pool, for the support caster who thinks they can do it all

Spells

A support caster will want the glyph, healing and enhancement lines first and foremost, but they will also need some basic DPS and utility, I suggest the cold line, and the hex line as well. Other choices are the telekinesis line, and, of course, the arcane line. Really, to a good support caster, you do need at least the healing and enhancement lines.

Modifié par Ser Kory, 28 janvier 2011 - 03:36 .

[Ser Kory]

Feedback is appreciated, just so everybody knows.

[Elhanan]

Looks good thus far, though expect some quibbles to appear against Willpower and DEX recommendations.

[DWSmiley]

As Elhanan predicted...

There are two things  is one thing a Pure Caster needs, spellpower and a large mana pool.

Though base + Fade = 20 willpower, not much different from your recommendation, Ser Kory.  All the mana one really needs is available from level ups, gear boosts and little blue bottles.  Specializations also factor in.  TBastian has a good thread here that shows how to use shapeshifting to mop up what's left of the enemies you have nuked and/or better survive the aggro you have drawn, no additional mana required.  Arcane warrior provides similar options, while blood magic provides an alternative source of energy.

Spellpower adds damage and, more importantly, reduces the chance of a spell being resisted.

Cold spells have great utility - damage and crowd control.  For pure primal damage, though, nothing matches the fire line, plus fireball does a knockdown and has a quick cooldown.  Another high damage line is the walking bombs - great vs. archers or to take a big chunk out of a boss.

Key to the City is debatable for a mage.  Better to have a +10% damage ring, imo.  For those without DLC goodies, the Tevinter Mage Robes are a great early choice, inexpensive and available at the Wonders of Thedas.

Modifié par DWSmiley, 26 janvier 2011 - 01:13 .

[Ser Kory]

The will is mostly for those using the arcane warrior to wear armor, and remember, this is all just a simple guideline for those looking for somewhere to start, based on what they want to do, not a guide for the "best mage build".

and thanks DWS, I made a little rushed and didn't say all I could have.

[Ser Kory]

Posted a new guide, it's small, because the mage type is incredibly easy to customize, and to use early-game.

[ussnorway]

I’m curious about your support caster dexterity 20-25 recommendation… I would personally never do this but perhaps you could explain the advantages of dropping 5-10 points into dexterity instead of putting it elsewhere?

P.s.
I did enjoy reading your guide.

Modifié par ussnorway, 28 janvier 2011 - 05:21 .

[termokanden]

If you do the calculations, the difference between having a bit of willpower like the guide suggests and having a little extra spellpower is probably not noticable. The extra mana is noticable in the very beginning, but that's exactly where you need to focus on Magic the most. I don't see the point in taking extra willpower for anyone but an Arcane Warrior, but it doesn't hurt your damage output much anyway.



As predicted, I disagree very strongly with spending points in dexterity for anything but an Arcane Warrior. You are not going to have great defense so why even bother?

[Elhanan]

I find a higher DEX is good for AW's, plus it enables the use of daggers, and those extra Runes may come in handy at times.

[termokanden]

That's why I wrote "for anything but an Arcane Warrior".

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

That's why I wrote "for anything but an Arcane Warrior".

But two daggers laden with Runes may be of great help for any caster on occasion.

[ussnorway]

The obvious weapon for a caster is the (ranged) magic staff, that leaves one other weapon set. I suggest that a S&S combo is the best option because of the +20 all stats Heraldry (and 3 runes on the sword). I can also see a shapeshifter or AW possibly using one of the two-handed weapons but two daggers… could you give a for instance?

[Elhanan]

ussnorway wrote...

The obvious weapon for a caster is the (ranged) magic staff, that leaves one other weapon set. I suggest that a S&S combo is the best option because of the +20 all stats Heraldry (and 3 runes on the sword). I can also see a shapeshifter or AW possibly using one of the two-handed weapons but two daggers… could you give a for instance?

Six Dweomer runes helps a long way during the cooldown between Mana Clash spells. Or adding Hale runes allows AW's to follow the rules of the Proving and Landsmeet. Same goes for Undead, Darkspawn, and Elemental runes, too.

And using a dagger helps increase the rate of attack, so the sword may be exchanged; keeping the Heraldry.

This may/ may not be optimum; uncertain. But I am a fan of versatility.

[Ser Kory]

This discussion is exactly what I hoped to spark with this, the guide isn't merely for those to follow, but also for those to challenge, like any guide.

[termokanden]

You really need runes to survive between Mana Clash cooldowns? It's so overpowered I can only think of one boss that could actually survive being hit. That was Gaxxkang, and only because I had let him use a lot of his mana first.

In any case I like my mages to be non-AWs and pure casters. To me, the fun lies in having to use your spells correctly to avoid getting stuck in melee range. I want my mages to die if they fail to keep everything under control.

I understand if that's not what everyone wants.

Modifié par termokanden, 31 janvier 2011 - 04:26 .

[USArmyParatrooper]

Early on I have found the Electric tree to be weak as compared to Cold and Fire. Personally I would focus on those first.



Cone of Cold and Fire Ball are fantastic crowd control, as well as dealing damage. With CoC you you one shot shatter lesser enemies, quickly reducing the size of the mob. Fireball is excellent against archers and other enemies. Against melée enemies who charge you on sight you just need to learn when to use it and how. If you have the space lead the targets so they charge into the blast, and make sure your guys don't run after them into the blast area. If you don't have ideal conditions for Fireball, wait until they're close and Cone of Cold them.



Also, in the middle of a fight you can carefully freeze enemies right next to your own team. This involves careful placement of your Mage, pause, and careful placement of your cone. Note, be careful NOT to place the bullseye directly on an enemy. The Mage will adjust the cone if that enemy moves, likely resulting in friendly fire.



Last on the Cold and Fire lines, the associated weapon enhancements are very strong. Fire enhancements add more damage, so use that by default and cold for fire resistent enemies. At higher levels with more magic points I've seen fire add more than 20 points of damage per melée strike. And this is just in Origins. I'm sure people have seen 30+ added damage in awakenings. With each melée strike from party members during a fight you're looking ar ridiculously high damage output from a low level spell that is very cheap to keep active.

[Elhanan]

termokanden wrote...

You really need runes to survive between Mana Clash cooldowns? It's so overpowered I can only think of one boss that could actually survive being hit. That was Gaxxkang, and only because I had let him use a lot of his mana first.

In any case I like my mages to be non-AWs and pure casters. To me, the fun lies in having to use your spells correctly to avoid getting stuck in melee range. I want my mages to die if they fail to keep everything under control.

I understand if that's not what everyone wants.

There are a few occasions when having Dweomer laden weapons are helpful (eg; saving the Alienage, getting into the Palace during Final battle, etc); any meeting when the mages are plentiful and scattered.

And I find having AW to be calming, as I am not forced to wear silly hats.

[Elhanan]

USArmyParatrooper wrote...

Early on I have found the Electric tree to be weak as compared to Cold and Fire. Personally I would focus on those first.

Cone of Cold and Fire Ball are fantastic crowd control, as well as dealing damage. With CoC you you one shot shatter lesser enemies, quickly reducing the size of the mob. Fireball is excellent against archers and other enemies. Against melée enemies who charge you on sight you just need to learn when to use it and how. If you have the space lead the targets so they charge into the blast, and make sure your guys don't run after them into the blast area. If you don't have ideal conditions for Fireball, wait until they're close and Cone of Cold them.

Also, in the middle of a fight you can carefully freeze enemies right next to your own team. This involves careful placement of your Mage, pause, and careful placement of your cone. Note, be careful NOT to place the bullseye directly on an enemy. The Mage will adjust the cone if that enemy moves, likely resulting in friendly fire.

Last on the Cold and Fire lines, the associated weapon enhancements are very strong. Fire enhancements add more damage, so use that by default and cold for fire resistent enemies. At higher levels with more magic points I've seen fire add more than 20 points of damage per melée strike. And this is just in Origins. I'm sure people have seen 30+ added damage in awakenings. With each melée strike from party members during a fight you're looking ar ridiculously high damage output from a low level spell that is very cheap to keep active.

True, but the Electric line is good to include later, as little to nothing seems to have any resistance to it.

[termokanden]

Elhanan wrote...

And I find having AW to be calming, as I am not forced to wear silly hats.

You're not a proper mage without a silly hat!

[Ser Kory]

I've actually once taken the AW spec JUST so I could wear the executioner's helm.

[Callidus Thorn]

A few points:

1. I'd say early on, the two primal spells you want are cone of cold and flame burst. Freeze a bunch of enemies, then set them all alight, and they'll take quite a bit of damage before they thaw. Particularly helpful against the walking corpses that pop up in places. Later in the game, add in walking bomb and you've got a weapon of mass destruction.

2. You really should mention that going Blood mage will require more constitution (20+), just for added survivability. A mage is frail enough without voluntarily draining his health, so every little helps.

3. I would also suggest that any type of caster take glyph of repulsion. Stops you getting swarmed while knocking enemies down for the tank. A damage dealing caster will attract aggro, and glyph of repulsion can even keep back higher ranked enemies. And is fun to see in action.



Just my opinions, based on what I've found useful.