663 réponses à ce sujet

[David Gaider]

Connect wrote...
Well, you are not really right here. The system specs contained absolutely no trace of DRM info whatsoever. And they were released before january 11 (the limit to order the Signature Edition), while the DRM info was discovered by me and other users who have combed the EULA. There was no official word on the DRM from either EA or BioWare.

Oh? Fair enough. I'd seen it mentioned earlier in this thread that the EULA came out with the specs.

Serves me right to accept second-hand info, I guess.

Anyhow, I'm sure the messaging will come shortly enough, and you all can make whatever gesticulations you feel the need to then.

[AlanC9]

Connect wrote...


No, it doesn't make sense as long as they had 2 different schemes for each version (retail and download) of Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2.

Plus they had the best DRM that I have seen so far: Battlefield Bad Company 2 asked the users during istall if they preffered the disc check or online authentication. I know it for sure because I have it. So this works best in my opinion. People who want to play without internet can do so, plus it guarantees that the game will still be playable in the future. Nice and simple

Now why couldn't they do the same with Dragon Age II? WHY?

Because they like the DD scheme better?

[Kronner]

Well, I guess I will do the usual with BioWare games. [inappropriate content removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 27 janvier 2011 - 05:53 .

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I think you attribute too much credit to the notion of free will.

I'll grant that people often behave as if they don't have any. But here's why that doesn't matter:

Either they do actually have free will, despite appearances, and thus are wilfully choosing something I can't comprehend, or...

They don't have free will (or sufficiently advanced cognitive skills to use it), and thus aren't people at all.

Problem sorted.

Well fortunately a person is defined by his/her humanity and not cognitive skills.

Or, to completely ignore that argument, it can be asserted that a human deserves ethical treatment regardless of personhood.

[Dudalizer]

I am a bit confused. Does this mean we will CONSTANLY have to be connected to the internet in order to play DA2? The only people DRM like that hurts is the legit owners of the game, not the pirates. Pirates will have a crack for that within a week, while us law abiding citizens will be dealing with BS DRM. What happens if our internet goes out? Does that mean we will not be able to play DA2? If so then that is just silly.

[BigJas]

MorseDenizen wrote...

This is the first I have heard of the DRM so far, and I had assumed it would be the same as Dragon Age. My issue is that I dont have an internet connection at the moment having recently relocated back to England, I have preordered the game (signature edition) and I'm looking forward to playing it, can someone confirm if i will need to connect to the internet first time to actually play? As long as the internet isnt required every single time to play the gme I'm not really bothered, I never had much of a problem with ME1. Basically can someone provide factual specifics of how this DRM works cos all i see right now seems pretty vague and its a bit worrying...

People are interpreting the EULA differently, hence some confusion. Mr Gaider has indicated we will get clarification at some future date.

[AlanC9]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Well fortunately a person is defined by his/her humanity and not cognitive skills.

Or, to completely ignore that argument, it can be asserted that a human deserves ethical treatment regardless of personhood.

Isn't that pure speciesism?

[RaenImrahl]

AlanC9 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Well fortunately a person is defined by his/her humanity and not cognitive skills.

Or, to completely ignore that argument, it can be asserted that a human deserves ethical treatment regardless of personhood.

Isn't that pure speciesism?

No, it's only speciesism if he had said something like, "...it can be asserted that a human deserves ethical treatment regardless of personhood, whereas cats do not."

And, to bring this back to the topic at hand, I doubt there are many cats who give a wet hairball about DRM. 

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 27 janvier 2011 - 08:17 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Well fortunately a person is defined by his/her humanity and not cognitive skills.

Or, to completely ignore that argument, it can be asserted that a human deserves ethical treatment regardless of personhood.

I would happily argue that personhood is defined by cognitive skills, and that humanity is irrelevant.  And that the basis for ethical treatment is personhood, so as not to exlucde any possible non-human persons I haven't yet encountered.

Every solution needs to be scalable.

[Morroian]

Dudalizer wrote...

I am a bit confused. Does this mean we will CONSTANLY have to be connected to the internet in order to play DA2?

It doesn't look like it. But you will need to be connected when you first install it.

[SaddleTrampNC]

Folks, I may be way off base here...but anyways. All of you have devoted some time in commenting about DRM, and some with very valid points both for and against. But here's the thing see. Everyone...hmmmmmm...almost everyone knows it's not Bioware that's writing the DRM on the disk. It's not Bioware that even come up with DRM clauses. You know it's EA. With that knowledge, don't you really think that all this would be more worth your time and effort in the right forum?? Say for instance, EA?? I doubt seriously, no matter how brave David, Mike and the rest of the Bioware team are, they're not going to break down EA's doors while waving their "Down with DRM" banners and demand anything of EA. But perhaps voicing your concerns over in the EA forum may get you more results than voicing them here. If you're going to complain of something, then do it where it will do you the most good and where you'll have a better chance (tho' somewhat slim it may be) of getting something done about it. With all that said, myself, I'm totally and wholeheartedly against any form of DRM as it's a waste of money on all sides and doesn't gain anyone anything. Just sayin'....(engaging shields and barriers)...

Modifié par SaddleTrampNC, 27 janvier 2011 - 09:20 .

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I would happily argue that personhood is defined by cognitive skills, and that humanity is irrelevant.  And that the basis for ethical treatment is personhood, so as not to exlucde any possible non-human persons I haven't yet encountered.

Every solution needs to be scalable.

"Humanity is irrelevant"? I actually expected you to say that "humanity" is too vague a concept to be useful -- unless we're defining it to mean being a member of the species ****** sapiens, which isn't the typical use of the word.

[SaddleTrampNC]

@----9-----: I did read, all of'em. that's how I got this:
____________________________________________________________
Technical Protection Measures. This Software uses EA Activation content protection technology. An EA Account, including the acceptance of EA’s online Terms of Service and Privacy Policy (available at www.ea.com), and an Internet connection are required to authenticate the Software and verify your license upon the initial launch of the
Software on any unique machine (“Authenticate” or “Authentication”).  The serial code provided with this Software will be verified during Authentication. Authentication is limited to one EA Account per serial code. Accordingly, this Software is not transferable once Authenticated.  EA reserves the right to validate your license through subsequent online Authentication. While there is no limit on the total number of machines on which the Software can be Authenticated, you may launch and access the Software on no more than five (5) unique machines in any rolling 24-hour period. If you disable or otherwise tamper with the technical protection measures, the Software may not function properly and you will have materially breached this License.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
which came from EA. and yes. When they get more info from EA.  And your link for a) would be???

Modifié par SaddleTrampNC, 27 janvier 2011 - 10:13 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

"Humanity is irrelevant"? I actually expected you to say that "humanity" is too vague a concept to be useful -- unless we're defining it to mean being a member of the species ****** sapiens, which isn't the typical use of the word.

Isn't it?  That's how I usually take it.

If I encounter some extra-terrestrial being who has advanced cognitive skills, can possess knowledge and use language, and otherwise satisifies the conditions of personhood, I see no reason to deny him ethical standing just because he isn't human.

Any workable definition of moral worth needs to allow for sentient non-humans.

[Sylvius the Mad]

From the EULA:

"EA reserves the right to validate your license through subsequent online Authentication.

I suspect this is something they need to say to allow them to deny you use of the product if you reinstall it and fail to authenticate it online.

Since you need to authenticate the software every time you install it, they need to reserve the right to authenticate the software repeatedly, as they can't foresee how many times you'll reinstall it.

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

"Humanity is irrelevant"? I actually expected you to say that "humanity" is too vague a concept to be useful -- unless we're defining it to mean being a member of the species ****** sapiens, which isn't the typical use of the word.

Isn't it?  That's how I usually take it.

It's much more common to see the word deployed to place someone on one side of the humanity/inhumanity scale, which deals with compassion, empathy, bla bla bla.

I suppose that's the most common way to use the word because  we already know that someone we're talking about is a member of our species, so we don't need to talk about that.

I concur wholeheartedly on the moral issue.

[SaddleTrampNC]

----9----- wrote...

SaddleTrampNC wrote...
@----9-----: I did read, all of'em. that's how I got this:

Pardon me. From your post it sounded like you had a different source on the DRM.

From my chat with EA (I had posted a portion of it), they seemed adamant that the EULA was created by BioWare and I would have to contact BW through the forums.

No problem..but it isn't the first time I've run into a publishers DRM either...From what I said earlier, I can agree with the "theory" of it proposing to aid in battling piracy.  Problem is, it doesn't work.  And I doubt anything anyone could come up with will. It may for a very short time.  But then it's only a matter of time that someone will break it.   Fact is, honest folk will buy whatever media that they enjoy.  Others, plainly, will not.  While I hope the best of sales for DA2, it's going to get pirated as any other game/ media will.  What I hope for mostly is that the sales will be profitable enough for BW to keep'em coming.  No, I'm not saying something shouldn't be done about it.  What I am saying is that beating your head against a brick wall for to long only ends up with the "gray matter" running out of your ears. It's time to give up on the DRM and try something else.  Like maybe more prosecutions and stiffer laws for those that do pirate media.  And for the rest of us to maybe be more active in reporting anyone we know that's pirating.  "What you say?? Turn my friends in?"  Well, yeah.  That or don't complain about the media you want to buy is so expensive.   For anyone interested, here's a link where all the DRM hubbub started (back with Sony) and was bought to the limelight by Mark Russinovich:
http://blogs.technet...ne-too-far.aspx

[craigdolphin]

If the same 5-machines-24-hour clause is also in the ME2 EULA, then maybe this clause also applies only to downloadable versions of DA2, and not the retail version. If so, then it could be that the DRM for DA2 retail will be the same as for DA:O. Which would be awesome news if true! It just makes me wonder why the failure to say that back when the system specs were announced. (Not that I'll ever get an answer to that.)



And David, thank you for responding in this thread. Your reassurance that the information will be forthcoming 'soon' actually has done a fair bit to soothe my panicky/paranoia reaction for now. I realize you must get frustrated with many posters, many times. But just wanted to let you know that I appreciate your input on this thread and that it is directly responsible for me simmering down my anger towards your company. So, thanks. Bioware is my favorite developer and I really do hate being at odds with you folks.

[cobretti1818]

Whats the point in this DRM crap. Stealers are gonna steal and fans are gonna pay.

If this was bullet proof I could understand, but none of them work



oh well, still can't wait.

[sevalaricgirl]

David Gaider wrote...

Some people are panicking because how intrusive (or not) the copy protection on the game will be is not clear enough for them. Which is understandable, although with more than a month to go for the game's release I doubt it's panic-worthy. This is not something you need to know by tomorrow.



As I understand it, clarification will be provided as soon as its ready. Considering how eager some people are to misinterpret, it's probably best that the t's are crossed correctly.



********************************************************************



Well here is the problem, Mr. Gaider. If it requires a constant internet connection and you are not telling us that and we have pre-ordered the game thinking that we could play it without an internet connection, isn't that a little shady. Will it be announced so that we can cancel the game or will we find out the day it's release so those of us who purchased a downloaded copy are screwed?

[BTCentral]

----9----- wrote...

From my chat with EA (I had posted a portion of it), they seemed adamant that the EULA was created by BioWare and I would have to contact BW through the forums.

I have noticed that sometimes EA support staff are less than well informed. I am pretty sure you'll find this is the case here.

Modifié par BTCentral, 28 janvier 2011 - 11:56 .

[Morroian]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Well here is the problem, Mr. Gaider. If it requires a constant internet connection and you are not telling us that and we have pre-ordered the game thinking that we could play it without an internet connection, isn't that a little shady.

Its hardly shady if he doesn't know as he's said.

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Will it be announced so that we can cancel the game or will we find out the day it's release so those of us who purchased a downloaded copy are screwed?

He or one of the other devs has already said n one of these threads that it should be announced in time for you to cancel your pre-order if you wish.

[PSUHammer]

While I don't get my panties in a bunch over DRM that some others seem to, I do have to say the two things I think are over the top are a) requiring a constant internet connection, and, install limits.

For the first one, I think this really hurts people who like to game on the run. I don't own a laptop but I know plenty of people who love to game in car rides or on planes as they travel a lot. That would kill them. Not to mention the military get screwed as I know they don't have wireless access out in the desert.

To the second point. I am constantly tweaking and rebuilding my PC...not a ton, but I don't want to deal with the hassle of having a limited install count. It's just dumb. I should be able to install and play the game as I want.

Some things I am ok with:
* serials
* disk checks
* online activation (one time)
* extra goodies for activated games
* only activated games get DLC

Modifié par Hammer6767, 28 janvier 2011 - 01:59 .