663 réponses à ce sujet

[Fraevar]

I hope we get some news on implementation soon, with the game going gold and all. Ideally I'd have liked the option to choose online checks or disk-check, because I really don't like the idea of any company constantly looking over my shoulder because I dare to play games on a PC.

[Fenn_]

It looks like steam will be the less annoying option.

[Spinifer]

EA and Bioware should read this, it's CD Project RED internal drm policy.:

Copyright protection cannot impede or hamper the use of legally acquired game copies. In particular:
   -
Games that do not require an Internet connection for gameplay reasons
should not require an active Internet connection for normal use.
   -
Game installation should in no way be limited, neither as regards the
number of repeated installations on a given system, nor in terms of the
number of systems on which a game can be installed.
   -
Internet-based registration of game copies is advisable only where the
developer makes available, free of charge and via the Internet,
additional game content or other services requiring an Internet
connection.
   - Traditional forms of copy protection like CD-check
and serial numbers are acceptable provided they are highly stable and
reliable.


And yeah EA/Bioware could answer now, once and for all, since Da2 is gold, what is the final DRM implementation.

[Royas]

Deadmac wrote...

Guess what?
http://www.dinkeydon...com/dongles.php

Someone has already came up with the concept. Instead of implementing an intrusive DRM system, BioWare/EA could use a dongle key for copyright protection purposes. When the dongle is attached to the computer (via usb port), the software will need to access it at random intervals. Activate the product and dongle online once, and then the dongle will take over from there. No need for your computer to call out to the server at random. If anything happens to a person's dongle (no jokes here please), BioWare/EA can charge a light fee for replacement. As a result of bringing in some revenue from lost or damaged dongles, they will be able to make up the cost of lost revenue due to software pirates. Its win-win. Consumers keep their freedom, and the company gains back some loss income.

Heck, this could also allow the game to work without it needing to access the dvd.

All BioWare/EA has to do is encrypt the dongle software.

If they think about this creatively, BioWare/EA could also sell designer dongles. If you want the top of the dongle to look like a dragon, elf, or mage, you can buy a customzed version through the online store.

Umm, no.  Like I really need is for something like this to take off, then I end up with a drawer full of dongles, one for each of my games.  You know that since the labeling won't be standardized that it will be hard to identify about half of them, and losing one would be entirely too easy.  Disc check and CD-key, that's all they need.  It's no more or less effective than this garbage they are shoveling our direction right now.

[daverian]

dongles are terrible ideas and wouldn't work anyway. There are ways to get around them.



Assassin's Creed II has DRM where it accessed an online server to gather critical game information to allow quests to take place, and they broke that. A dongle is a physical thing that pirates would have in their possession. Programs like Alcohol 120% and Daemon Tools would soon introduce virtual dongles to their programs that you could mount.



Simple solution? Have the game use a serial that is unique to everyone. If the game has an online component, two serials can't be playing at once. If the game is only single player, you can register your serial to an email address and gain exclusive content (of course, this content isn't something necessary to play the game or something that was originally IN the game, then taken out in order to make it exclusive content. This would be something designed during the "gold phase" month of the game).



Of course, this exclusive content would be leaked and such, but it would give more incentive for people to just buy it, especially if they already see it as a deal as the price is good and the game quality is good. That is VERY important that many people seem to forget. As I stated, Dragon Age: Origins had like no DRM, sold EXTREMELY well, and won a ton of awards. It sold well enough to greenlight a sequel.



One more DRM thing that can be done -> something like safedisc where any old program can't simply copy the game for regular joe down the street to mass produce copies and hand them out. Sure, you can get around stuff like that, but need special stuff, not just a copy of Nero or Windows Burning Wizard thing. Anything more advanced than this does no good. If they know what to look for online and how to get past this safedisc protection, they can easily search and find pirated copies, cracks, etc. for whatever.

[craigdolphin]

I understand the desire to get more information about the DRM implmentation now that the game has gone gold. However, some details may not be finalized yet, even so. Some aspects of this kind of DRM can be tweaked on the server-side at any point in time. So it is possible that the final decisions have not yet been made. If those decisions have been made, it would be good to know.

[attend]

Darn. I was hoping Bioware had addressed this by now.

An update would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Tabak]

I've read the official statements here: http://social.biowar...x/5887403&lf=8  and am disappointed that even though DA2 has gone gold, theres still no word on how often the game needs to have internet access. 

I don't mind the release control but regular login checks are a deal-breaker for me. I don't live in an area with reliable Internet access. While regular phone home might work for people that have reliable, fast internet the DRM seems to assume that everyone always has internet access. 

With DA:O I had a lot of problems with DLC due to problems connecting to DA servers. I was unable to play for 2 weeks at one point, until EA sorted things out for me. I've lost count of the number of times my DLC became unauthorised & unplayable simply because the game servers were unreachable. Waiting for game servers to respond is seriously annoying when you are trying to play. 

One of the reasons I bought DA:O was because it didn't have heavy DRM. I won't touch SecuROM after losing hardware to it. I won't touch Ubisoft because their DRM made internet access essential. But DA:O lost a lot of its gloss when DLC activation became a nightmare. These forums are full of people who have problems due to the server checks needed for running DLC. Can Bioware guarantee their servers can handle the extra checks?

Contrast whats happened now to what Bioware said in 2009. Back then they trusted us to do the right thing and they backed it with non-intrusive DRM. http://www.play.tm/n...for-dragon-age/

As a result, I purchased 2 x DA:O Collector's Editions, 1 x DA:O CE for xbox 360, and 1x DA:O Ultimate Edition, all so my whole family could play with individual licenses and individual social.bioware accounts. One of my family doesn't have internet at all, but this wasn't an issue with DA:O because she can play offline. She will not be able to play DA2 at all. Another one of us only has internet via mobile phone. Even the smallest data transfer costs big bucks when its through the mobile network. 

I want to continue to support Bioware, and I want to be able to play DA2. But I need to know if I am going to be able to play it. Would someone please clarify how often the phone home checks will run, and what will happen if we don't have internet access at that time? Thank you.

[AlanC9]

Tabak wrote...
I've lost count of the number of times my DLC became unauthorised & unplayable simply because the game servers were unreachable. Waiting for game servers to respond is seriously annoying when you are trying to play. 

Huh? Once authorized DAO's DLC can be played offline.

[SomGuy55]

Sigh, was looking forward to this too.

DRM does absolutely nothing to hinder pirates, not a damn thing.
They get to play a superior version without any restrictions whatsoever on day 1 (or earlier).

Oh well, looks like The Witcher 2 (DRM FREE) is the only RPG i'll be pre-ordering this year. 
I might pick this up in 6 months or so when it's 50% off or something, or when they eventually patch it out 

[VanDraegon]

Frankly this is a non issue. IMO, if you feel that the DRM a company puts on its products are too much of a hassle, too intrusive or something you dont want to deal with, you are free to not purchase said product. There is no reason to make a stink about it. If Bioware feels they need this to protect their work and thus help ensure future games in this series, frankly i am all for it.

Modifié par VanDraegon, 14 février 2011 - 03:17 .

[SomGuy55]

VanDraegon wrote...

Frankly this is a non issue. IMO, if you feel that the DRM a company puts on its products are too much of a hassle, too intrusive or something you dont want to deal with, you are free to not purchase said product. There is no reason to make a stink about it. If Bioware feels they need this to protect their work and thus help ensure future games in this series, frankly i am all for it.

The problem is, DRM does not protect their work in any way. And frankly, anyone who believes otherwise is extremely naive.

Every game is pirated, no exception.
Most games are pirated immediately on release or sooner, some take longer.

In the end the pirates are sitting there playing their games and laughing at the DRM they don't need to deal with.

Do you actually believe that pirates see that DA2 will have DRM and say "Oh no, we won't be able to pirate this now."?
More like "Cool, DA2 is out. I'll go download it now."

CD Projekt Red is releasing The Witcher 2 DRM Free because they understand this very well.


I will not be purchasing DA2 simply because of the DRM. It would've been nice to have something new to play while I wait for TW2, but i can wait a few more months.
If they patch out the DRM or I find it in a bargain bin for an extremely low price I may buy it.
But I will definitely not be pre ordering it.

Sigh, I guess mass effect 3 will be the same...

[VanDraegon]

I dont think that DRM will stop the pirates and neither do the people at Bioware and EA. However, that doesnt mean they are just going to throw their hands up in the air and give up on the issue as a whole. They have reasons beyond just trying to stop people from stealing the game for doing what they do. So be it. I really like the games they make. They choose to make them with these types of DRM. I dont care as long as i get to play the game.

[SomGuy55]

VanDraegon wrote...

I dont think that DRM will stop the pirates and neither do the people at Bioware and EA. However, that doesnt mean they are just going to throw their hands up in the air and give up on the issue as a whole. They have reasons beyond just trying to stop people from stealing the game for doing what they do. So be it. I really like the games they make. They choose to make them with these types of DRM. I dont care as long as i get to play the game.

So EA spend millions of dollars developing/implementing DRM solutions, not because they want to stop piracy, but because they think its really cool? rite.

Anything that requires an online component for an offline game is unacceptable.Especially when you will need to re-authenticate every few days (was this clarified?)

What happens if your net goes out or their servers are down (i.e. ubisoft)?
Well I guess you won't be able to play your legally purchased game today.
Thank you EA for dictating to me when I am allowed to play my games.

Treating your customers like criminals (you can only play if you PROVE you own it!!) is not a good way to tackle piracy. The pirates will win every time.

Anyway. I'm done here.
Thanks for nothing EA

[AlanC9]

SomGuy55 wrote...

So EA spend millions of dollars developing/implementing DRM solutions, not because they want to stop piracy, but because they think its really cool? rite.

So why do you think they're doing it? You just said DRM didn't work.

[FieryDove]

AlanC9 wrote...

So why do you think they're doing it? You just said DRM didn't work.

They have shareholders to report too. They want something shown that something is being done. Frankly its a waste of big-time money. (imho) Disk check/cd key works well enough to stop share with my neighborhood type problems. And one-time activatvation/register adds another layer.

I feel the one time call in to register the game/dlc is enough but that's just my opinion.

I would like to know what the final judgement is on how many days it has to phone home myself.

Modifié par FieryDove, 14 février 2011 - 11:35 .

[PSUHammer]

Actually, any type of copy prevention methods will indeed stop some piracy from happening. Will there be uber geeks and others who will crack any type of DRM there is? Sure, but the casual PC user or gamer isn't going to try and crack a game beyond attempting a disk copy or installing it on a friends PC. If the publisher can stop a chunk of those, they consider the DRM efforts a success.



I am not stating my opinion for or against, just answering the logic behind some corporate decisions. They are trying to protect their investment. The argument comes when it crosses the line from protection and deterrents from piracy to actually affecting paying customers.

[ejoslin]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

I had a short exchange with Evil Chris a while ago when I was asking about the DRM, and frankly I'm not at all surprised if they've adopted (slightly) stronger measures than before.  ME2 made the top 5 list of most pirated games in 2010.  No, that's not a joke.  Anyway, Evil Chris told me that he doesn't have any info to release as of yet, and we'll know what he knows as soon as he knows it and is allowed to disclose it (hah, rhymes).  DRM is set by EA, not Bioware, and EA has some weird-ass marketing policies and decision-making procedures since they're so big.

If you want to kvetch at someone, kvetch at all the people you probably know who pirated ME2. 

How would they get that information?  It sounds like something that was made up, or some wild speculation.

It's hard enough to get reasonably accurate statistical information with controls -- this sounds more like hyperbole than anything.

Edit: This type of DRM, requiring people to be on line to play a single person game, is draconian.  It penalizes the people who buy the game.  I suspect that it has less to do with copy protection and more to do with data mining.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2011 - 12:56 .

[ejoslin]

AlanC9 wrote...

Tabak wrote...
I've lost count of the number of times my DLC became unauthorised & unplayable simply because the game servers were unreachable. Waiting for game servers to respond is seriously annoying when you are trying to play. 

Huh? Once authorized DAO's DLC can be played offline.

I am another person who had a lot of problems with the DLC unauthenticating then reauthenticating, causing me to lose the DLC content (gear, Shale, the chest).  There were plenty of times I couldn't play because my DLCs unauthenticated.

Many people had problems.  Look at the support forums regarding this issue.

Modifié par ejoslin, 14 février 2011 - 01:13 .

[Tabak]

AlanC9 wrote...

Tabak wrote...
I've lost count of the number of times my DLC became unauthorised & unplayable simply because the game servers were unreachable. Waiting for game servers to respond is seriously annoying when you are trying to play. 

Huh? Once authorized DAO's DLC can be played offline.

That's true - right to the point where you login to the game again to buy or install new DLC and the server fails to respond. Then all the DLC gets unauthorised and you jump through hoops again to get it recognised again. I lost 4 days when I got Return to Ostagar because of this. I don't get a lot of time to relax with a game but when I have the time I want to be able to play. 

It's not an issue now because I bought the Ultimate Edition so never have to risk logging in again. That also means I don't get to interact with this site (upload achievements, etc) but that doesn't bother me. 

I don't have a good internet connection & where I live I can't get one either, so this phone home check could be a real problem.

I don't have a problem with reasonable DRM. Disk checks don't bother me. Typing out loads of characters from a printed serial don't bother me. Initial authorisation isn't a problem. But repeated online re-authorisations could make the game unplayable for me. I want to pre-order but need to know if I am going to be able to play DA2.

[berkos2]

i would really like to hear from devs more on this subject. i mean i could understand if they somehow managed to build impossible to crack drm, fine, i would even support them in even more draconian measures,but this will get cracked on day one.

i travel a lot, and often im using my gaming lap in these situations, so what im left to do... using cracked version on my legally bought game?!

and what are they doing to stop piracy on xbox and ps3 if they care so much about piracy?

anyway im certanly not buying this and i really hope this one flops hard sales wise, maybe only that way they will learn this way is not the way to go.

[PSUHammer]

Berkos,

People in your situation are harmed the most by online only play. I also think of my gamer cousin who is in the military. It is quite hard to find an Internet connection in a third world country in the desert!

Xbox and PS3 are much harder to "pirate" on and take much more effort than PC piracy as you have to change the code or hardware of the game consoles, themselves. Many people with limited tech skills (or energy to want to invest time in the effort) will avoid (or are deterred) console piracy because of this. You also have the option of renting games on these systems which cuts into piracy as you have cheap, easy access to games.

That being said, the DRM mentioned so far for this game isn't as bad as Ubisoft's efforts.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 14 février 2011 - 03:01 .

[Raygereio]

berkos2 wrote...
anyway im certanly not buying this and i really hope this one flops hard sales wise, maybe only that way they will learn this way is not the way to go.

I don't think you fully comprehend the way these people think. If a game like this will sell bad a combinatin of these two conclusions will be drawn:

- Everybody must have pirated the game! Quickly; invest millions into a new DRM scheme.
- Everybody must have thought the game was bad. Well, let's close down BioWare's Dragon Age department.

Modifié par Raygereio, 14 février 2011 - 02:58 .