663 réponses à ce sujet

[PSUHammer]

Raygereio wrote...

berkos2 wrote...
anyway im certanly not buying this and i really hope this one flops hard sales wise, maybe only that way they will learn this way is not the way to go.

I don't think you fully comprehend the way these people think. If a game like this will sell bad a combinatin of these two conclusions will be drawn:

- Everybody must have pirated the game! Quickly; invest millions into a new DRM scheme.
- Everybody must have thought the game was bad. Well, let's close down BioWare's Dragon Age department.

While I doubt it would be that drastic, you make a valid point.  Most of the time, boycotts or whatever, don't have the intended affect.  That being said, ME2 was one of the most pirated games last year but it was also one of the highest selling games.  Usually piracy efforts will attack the most successful products (see MS Windows).  

[berkos2]

hammer,

pirating on consoles is as easy as on the pc, you could pay 20 bucks to some guy who will mod your xbox drive in under 10minutes and only technical skill to use after that is knowing how to "press burn image to disk" button, and jailbreaking ps3 is as hard as jailbreaking an iphone.



dont get me wrong, i used to love bioware, but these things are just a turn off.i guess things change, i just have hope in smaller companies not to screw up in a future, im looking at you cdprojekt:)

[PSUHammer]

berkos2 wrote...

hammer,
pirating on consoles is as easy as on the pc, you could pay 20 bucks to some guy who will mod your xbox drive in under 10minutes and only technical skill to use after that is knowing how to "press burn image to disk" button, and jailbreaking ps3 is as hard as jailbreaking an iphone.

dont get me wrong, i used to love bioware, but these things are just a turn off.i guess things change, i just have hope in smaller companies not to screw up in a future, im looking at you cdprojekt:)

I understand very well how cracking consoles is done.  I am just saying that many people won't go through the effort.  Like me, I refuse to jailbreak my iPhone and I don't want to mess with my PS3 as I use it mainly as a Blu Ray player.  Plus, your casual gamer may not even know about the ability to crack a console.  I just asked my brother (we are both gamers in our 30's) if he know that consoles could be cracked.  He said he figured as much but wouldn't even know where to begin and woulnd't want to "screw up" his system.

I am not saying it isn't done, or that it isn't easy.  I am just saying that many people are turned off by the complexity of it or the thought of messing with the hardware.  For a PC, cracking a game is much easier and doesn't normally require you to alter the system code (or BIOS) to be successful.  THAT is why companies focus on PC DRM.  DRM is essentially built into the hardware on consoles.

[berkos2]

yes but why focusing on drm, in a first place if it doesnt work, it just doesnt, i mean the most pirated games are games with this kind of drm, spore, assassins creed etc.dragon age origins sold really good, and it didnt have this crap,and many other like sins of solar empire, which had none drm.my logic is this will only push people in pirating on divert them from it.
i just cant believe such big companies as bioware and ea could be so naive.

Modifié par berkos2, 14 février 2011 - 03:29 .

[Layn]

Hammer6767 wrote...

I understand very well how cracking consoles is done.  I am just saying that many people won't go through the effort.  Like me, I refuse to jailbreak my iPhone and I don't want to mess with my PS3 as I use it mainly as a Blu Ray player.  Plus, your casual gamer may not even know about the ability to crack a console.  I just asked my brother (we are both gamers in our 30's) if he know that consoles could be cracked.  He said he figured as much but wouldn't even know where to begin and woulnd't want to "screw up" his system.

I am not saying it isn't done, or that it isn't easy.  I am just saying that many people are turned off by the complexity of it or the thought of messing with the hardware.  For a PC, cracking a game is much easier and doesn't normally require you to alter the system code (or BIOS) to be successful.  THAT is why companies focus on PC DRM.  DRM is essentially built into the hardware on consoles.

most people i know with consoles have it cracked to play pirated the games on it. Actually the less hardcore the gamer, the more likely it is that their games are pirated, since they don't want to spend money on them. the few people i know who don't pirate games (for console more specifically in this case) either are aiming for a job in the gaming industry or are hardcore gamers.

[PSUHammer]

Crrash wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

I understand very well how cracking consoles is done.  I am just saying that many people won't go through the effort.  Like me, I refuse to jailbreak my iPhone and I don't want to mess with my PS3 as I use it mainly as a Blu Ray player.  Plus, your casual gamer may not even know about the ability to crack a console.  I just asked my brother (we are both gamers in our 30's) if he know that consoles could be cracked.  He said he figured as much but wouldn't even know where to begin and woulnd't want to "screw up" his system.

I am not saying it isn't done, or that it isn't easy.  I am just saying that many people are turned off by the complexity of it or the thought of messing with the hardware.  For a PC, cracking a game is much easier and doesn't normally require you to alter the system code (or BIOS) to be successful.  THAT is why companies focus on PC DRM.  DRM is essentially built into the hardware on consoles.

most people i know with consoles have it cracked to play pirated the games on it. Actually the less hardcore the gamer, the more likely it is that their games are pirated, since they don't want to spend money on them. the few people i know who don't pirate games (for console more specifically in this case) either are aiming for a job in the gaming industry or are hardcore gamers.

How old are you?

I only ask because it depends on your income level.  I am in my 30's and make a good living.  Many of my gaming friends and peers are in a similar boat.  Or, they own Wii's for their kids.  I don't know a single person who has a hacked console.

If you are a kid or teenager and you or your friends are techies, or whatever, with a limited income, I could see the risk/reward.  I don't condone that behavior, but I see it.  So, we can't base our conclusions off of generalities.

Whether or not DRM works or not is a good discussion but I see a lot of people making arguments without taking the entire picture into account.  You have to consider the company's point of view, whether you agree with their methods or not.

[Stanley Woo]

Hey, folks. We do not allow the encouragement, advocacy, support, or suggestion of software piracy on our forums. if this discussion continues down this track, it will be closed.

[PSUHammer]

Since DRM discussions are inherently related to piracy, it may be impossible to continue this thread. That being said, I hope you weren't referring to me as I don't support or advocate it in any way.

[Achromatis]

I dislike DRM because the more its used the more itll start costing publishers to get the newest and "best" DRM software, thus increasing the end consumer(me!) costs. Which will(you didnt say no discussing piracy altogether >.>) just increase the lure of piracy for a lot of people.

Related, I have some light reading for people: http://www.destructo...s--193957.phtml [language warning]

[added language warning for article]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 14 février 2011 - 06:32 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Glaucon wrote...

I have no issue with DRM whatsoever and it has never caused me a single problem in any game containing it. That's just me though. But if it keeps a great developer developing then I say keep it.

Overall the DA2 DRM doesn't bother me. I have always on internet, so the dial home thing won't be a problem for me.  I just wish DRM wasn't necessary, but I realize it is.

[addiction21]

Crrash wrote...

most people i know with consoles have it cracked to play pirated the games on it. Actually the less hardcore the gamer, the more likely it is that their games are pirated, since they don't want to spend money on them. the few people i know who don't pirate games (for console more specifically in this case) either are aiming for a job in the gaming industry or are hardcore gamers.

Anedoctal evidence is worthless and should never be used to support ones arguement let alone drawing a conclusion from.

See I can do it too.

Everybody I know doesnt have a cracked system and does not pirate. So the more hardcore someone is the more likely it is they will pirate.

[Layn]

Hammer6767 wrote...

How old are you?

I only ask because it depends on your income level.  I am in my 30's and make a good living.  Many of my gaming friends and peers are in a similar boat.  Or, they own Wii's for their kids.  I don't know a single person who has a hacked console.

If you are a kid or teenager and you or your friends are techies, or whatever, with a limited income, I could see the risk/reward.  I don't condone that behavior, but I see it.  So, we can't base our conclusions off of generalities.

Whether or not DRM works or not is a good discussion but I see a lot of people making arguments without taking the entire picture into account.  You have to consider the company's point of view, whether you agree with their methods or not.

i'm 22, but that's beside the point, since the people i know doesn't limit itself to people of my age. Honestly i do know a lot more people who game on PC than on console, so yeah i know it's not a good basis for an estimate of console piracy ratio. People my age usually scoff at me for buying games instead of pirating (and then they drop their jaws in awe when they see how extensive my library really is and wonder how i paid for all that. well kiddies, you don't have to play games as soon as they are released. Pirates don't realize that). They probably researched and got everything cracked by themselves. Now, older people keep coming with the excuse that they don't play that much anyway, so they let their more knowledgable friend crack it for them and burn them a big bunch of games.

more recently i've gotten to know people who usually buy original just like i do, but as i said we're all studying animation and game design. we sorta realize that people should get paid for their work

addiction21 wrote...

Crrash wrote...

most
people i know with consoles have it cracked to play pirated the games on
it. Actually the less hardcore the gamer, the more likely it is that
their games are pirated, since they don't want to spend money on them.
the few people i know who don't pirate games (for console more
specifically in this case) either are aiming for a job in the gaming
industry or are hardcore gamers.

Anedoctal evidence is worthless and should never be used to support ones arguement let alone drawing a conclusion from.

See I can do it too.

Everybody
I know doesnt have a cracked system and does not pirate. So the more
hardcore someone is the more likely it is they will pirate.

what, should i provide some BS study, make big generalizations and assume things based on little information and just cite what other people say?
i'm offering what i've experienced myself. of course other people might have different experiences with this, considering how big the world is with vastly different cultures and such.

Modifié par Crrash, 14 février 2011 - 06:57 .

[Spinifer]

Come on people please stay on topic: it's about DA2 DRM not piracy or they will lock this tread like they did with the official one.

[Sblade]

My only concern for now is the Release Control creator... which is supposed to dissapear after a certain date......

And the lack of confirmation about periodical online checking ...

If it just an update of the system used in DAO. why don´t announcing it? (adding SR or Solidshield doesn´t enter my definition of update)

Modifié par Sblade, 14 février 2011 - 07:51 .

[Layn]

Spinifer wrote...

Come on people please stay on topic: it's about DA2 DRM not piracy or they will lock this tread like they did with the official one.

but how to avoid talking piracy?
"hey DRM on PC sucks because it doesn't stop piracy." "Yeah but they have to do something to stop piracy because it's rampant." Damn, there we are.
"but hey why don't consoles have superannoying DRM?" "Well that's because they are more protected anyway" "nuh-uh, i know for a fact that loads of people pirate" "nah it isn't" "sure is! loads of people have their consoles cracked" damn, there we are again.

but okay i guess we could just stay at the discussion of how this DRM is very annoying for customers, without talking about why DRM is useless.

that said, 2 weeks ago i had a week long really unreliable internet followed by no internet at all Friday-Sunday. It'd suck if i'd had to authenticate DA2 then, considering that i was really busy the rest of the time

[mcneil_1]

I agree that we should stay on topic (we do need to have a topic on the current drm scheme that shouldnt be lost to the void of locked topics).



I think that folks are a bit miffy since Fernando hasnt popped back with an update on the solidshield phone home plan (its been about 3 weeks since his post on the previous locked topic) and the game has gone gold.

[berkos2]

in the end they can put whatever they want in their software, i just saddens me to see bioware going down that route. imho company like bioware enjoyed big reputation among hardcore gamers, especially pc community, and recent drm crap in combo with removing features from sequels, i dont know, its like ferrari to make little affordable diesel car, it is still ferrari but isnt:)

[Chaos-fusion]

Sblade wrote...

And the lack of confirmation about periodical online checking ...

Still no new info on that? Eh, I am reluctant to pre-oreder until I know details.

Don't really want it from Steam, but that's looking like my best option at the minute.

[Sblade]

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Sblade wrote...

And the lack of confirmation about periodical online checking ...

Still no new info on that? Eh, I am reluctant to pre-oreder until I know details.

Don't really want it from Steam, but that's looking like my best option at the minute.

I have been monitoring and testing DRM´s since 2006 and believe me... this is NOT my biggest worry but the Release Control manufacturer.....

Look what EA did in Dead Space 2. Putting Securom without notification...

I hope EA isn´t overplaying its hand with Bioware, because they will have unfortunate news for disobeying a court order... (notification and disclosing of DRM imperative)

No point in discussing now. As the Goldmaster is already done.

[muse108]

WHAT! Argh, I hate you EA, hate you so goddamn much, first the boycott of steam with the signature edition and then this....this blatant insult to the pc gaming community. Witcher 2, a rival RPG game I've already preordered 6 months before its out (and it does look much prettier you have to admit) is available with 0 DRM, ZERO. If this wasnt Dragon Age I would not be getting this now.



DRM this intrusive, this draconian detracts heavily from the game, and I can safely guarantee to you that for all your effort to build it, integrate it into the game, all your man hours required to do that it will have 0 effect on piracy. Your perception of piracy is strangling the industry, not the actual piracy but just the perception of it. Shame on you. And as a statement I will not be ordering Mass Effect 3 when it comes out.

[Sblade]

muse108 wrote...

WHAT! Argh, I hate you EA, hate you so goddamn much, first the boycott of steam with the signature edition and then this....this blatant insult to the pc gaming community. Witcher 2, a rival RPG game I've already preordered 6 months before its out (and it does look much prettier you have to admit) is available with 0 DRM, ZERO. If this wasnt Dragon Age I would not be getting this now.

DRM this intrusive, this draconian detracts heavily from the game, and I can safely guarantee to you that for all your effort to build it, integrate it into the game, all your man hours required to do that it will have 0 effect on piracy. Your perception of piracy is strangling the industry, not the actual piracy but just the perception of it. Shame on you. And as a statement I will not be ordering Mass Effect 3 when it comes out.

We still haven´t confirmed that the DRM is the intrusive one.....

And Bio games and other EA games have had different DRM implementation lately...

The message is "caution" not, rant above anything else.

I can be wrong on my intuition, DA2 just coming with the same system as in DAO, and in my opinion, that would be great as for me is NOT intrusive

[PSUHammer]

muse108 wrote...

WHAT! Argh, I hate you EA, hate you so goddamn much, first the boycott of steam with the signature edition and then this....this blatant insult to the pc gaming community. Witcher 2, a rival RPG game I've already preordered 6 months before its out (and it does look much prettier you have to admit) is available with 0 DRM, ZERO. If this wasnt Dragon Age I would not be getting this now.

DRM this intrusive, this draconian detracts heavily from the game, and I can safely guarantee to you that for all your effort to build it, integrate it into the game, all your man hours required to do that it will have 0 effect on piracy. Your perception of piracy is strangling the industry, not the actual piracy but just the perception of it. Shame on you. And as a statement I will not be ordering Mass Effect 3 when it comes out.

Come on, that's a bit of hyperbole...

[mcneil_1]

Sblade wrote...

Chaos-fusion wrote...

Sblade wrote...

And the lack of confirmation about periodical online checking ...

Still no new info on that? Eh, I am reluctant to pre-oreder until I know details.

Don't really want it from Steam, but that's looking like my best option at the minute.

I have been monitoring and testing DRM´s since 2006 and believe me... this is NOT my biggest worry but the Release Control manufacturer.....

Look what EA did in Dead Space 2. Putting Securom without notification...

I hope EA isn´t overplaying its hand with Bioware, because they will have unfortunate news for disobeying a court order... (notification and disclosing of DRM imperative)

No point in discussing now. As the Goldmaster is already done.

EA added Securom to Dead Space 2 , wasnt Dead Space 2 using solidshield like Dragon Age 2 <_<

I wonder if Bioware can change the phone home bit at their end 

Modifié par mcneil_1, 15 février 2011 - 01:05 .