663 réponses à ce sujet

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

Connect wrote...

For those of you who don't know, Dragon Age II goes back to the days of Mass Effect 1, with online activations, authentications, machine limits, and the added "bonus" of requiring you to permanently tie your game to an EA account. What happened with the disc checks from Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age: Origins? Were they too comfortable to the paying customers, so you have decided to ignore everything you have learned from the Mass Effect 1 fiasco and throw our opinions out the window?

One last thing. Thanks for "communicating" with us and taking our opinions into account. Great way to treat your paying customers, BioWare! I'm utterly dissapointed and disgusted.

WHAT?!  What if one day I can't pay the phone bill and I lose my internet connection for several months?  Will I not be able to install the game?  And what if you have some computer problems and have to re-install, or you get a new computer?  I've always hated DRM to begin with.  I've always been of the belief that if you bought something, it's your property to use as you will, as long as you're not redistributing it.  And not only that, but you should never need the internet to play any game, ever (unless we're talking about an MMO game here).


For those reasons and more, I always make sure to go to the store and buy the physical, boxed copy of any game that I buy.  Sad, though, that when I bought Awakening, Gamestop's section of PC games was a tiny shelf in the middle of the aisle.

[Erszebeth]

We have a choice here : free content or convenience. Signature Edition is nice, but as a long term Bioware fan I would have prefered a regular collector edition. The whole Signature deal was peculiar to begin with. Had to preorder outside my country to find it, and we learned of the DRM after the end of the promotion. I now find that for me, the disadvantages of having the SE are outweighting the advantages of getting the Steam version.

Modifié par Erszebeth, 17 février 2011 - 07:08 .

[slimgrin]

So any word on the final form of DRM yet?

[AlanC9]

Seifz wrote...

Erszebeth wrote...

Disregard crappy DRM, acquire Steam version. I know I'm seriously thinking of it.

That's not an option for the Signature Edition.  Besides, Steam has tons of other problems.  In fact, Steam is probably overall worse than this horrible DRM scheme.

Maybe so. Steam's pretty unstable on my rig. But how much worse are we talking about here? 1% having a problem with Bio's DRM vs. 1.5% having a problem with Steam? Lower? Higher?

[Seifz]

AlanC9 wrote...

Seifz wrote...

Erszebeth wrote...

Disregard crappy DRM, acquire Steam version. I know I'm seriously thinking of it.

That's not an option for the Signature Edition.  Besides, Steam has tons of other problems.  In fact, Steam is probably overall worse than this horrible DRM scheme.

Maybe so. Steam's pretty unstable on my rig. But how much worse are we talking about here? 1% having a problem with Bio's DRM vs. 1.5% having a problem with Steam? Lower? Higher?

Oh, I have plenty of problems with the entire idea of Steam.  Even if you ignore the bugs and instability that so many experience with Steam, it still suffers from some pretty insane limitations.

 - Offline mode breaks somtimes, so you're still stuck with the phone home nonsense.
 - You're forced to patch a game if you play "online" (even if it's a single-player game)
 - You can never revert to an older version of the game if you decide that you don't like a patch (DA:O 1.02, anyone?)
 - You're at the mercy of Valve's servers being up whenever you authenticate, which is no different than EA's servers.
 - There's no guarantee that you'll be able to play if Steam goes away in the future.
 - Often, custom content has issues with the Steam version of a game.
 - You're putting all of your eggs into one basket, so to speak.  Let's say that you want to play a game one day and Steam is down for some reason.  Well, now you can't play any games at all unless you somehow predicted the downtime and remember to enable offline mode.

Basically, it's the same thing EA is trying to push on us with DA2 anyway plus some other nonsense.  And you don't get a physical copy!  Bah!

But this is probably off topic, now.  Enough Steam hating for one day.  

[Erszebeth]

As I said, I never had any problem with Steam. Even with that, I don't have all my games on it if that can reassure you.



The fact is that a physical copy comes with DRM too, so it has the exact same online limitations than a Steam version, with the same potential pitfalls. To me, a true physical copy is one unbridled by online DRM and that can be played anywhere. Oh how I love the disc checks of old !



Overall, I feel that Steam is a very convenient way to buy games, manage digital rights and obtain easily an english version of a game (I'm french but dispise french versions) which is the reason why I use it.

[Unato]

Phoenixblight wrote...

Talking about Pirating is prohibited. 


Really reverting to pirate because a developer doesn't give you the answer you seek or lack there of? People really will just pull things out of their butt for any reason. 

err no the lack of information is forcing me to cancel not forcing me to pirate this game. i work 6 days a week so really the loss of not being able to play DA2 is rather negliable. the loss of cash isn't esp since companies care about their bottemline. A new game in Aus costs ~100 dollars (give or take, consoles are higher ) and previously I was going to be paying 89.99 for the "CE" comparatively bargin bin games costs 10 dollars or 20 at most. An 70 to 80 dollar difference is a win for me at the end of the day and a loss to them although such a loss is negliable in the grand scheme of things but I doubt I'm the only one cancelling.

[F4tal3rror]

Each install requires logging in to your EA account to verify game ownership and if you are a member of these forums, you have an EA account.
- You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days.

That's enough to scare a sale out of me.
I'd maybe consider if steam was the only drm in use. (though i know that anyone who doesn't use steam regularly would still be rather peeved at that)

(owner of  ME2, DA, DA:O [and dlc])

Modifié par F4tal3rror, 17 février 2011 - 09:48 .

[Finis Valorum]

Ahh.... the sweet doublethink of people talking about restrictions as if they are "rights", the government will be very pleased.

In a few years I can see we're all going to have the "right to prove our innocence in a court of law" because if we can't well we must obviously be guilty be default.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

The funny thing about them doing things like this to stop pirates is that not only will it not stop pirates but it will encourage piracy because a lot of people who pay for the game will give up and stop paying for games only to have to jump through a dozen hoops all the time just to continue playing the game they paid for.

[ZaroktheImmortal]

[Raygereio]

slimgrin wrote...
So any word on the final form of DRM yet?

Judging from what we got so far it's going to be the same as Dead Space 2's DRM. In other words the exact same crap as Bioshock and Mass Effect 1 with you having to ask if EA/BioWare if they can be so kind as to allow you to play the game you bought.  
This time however it wil probably use SolidShield instead of SecureROM; the former being less prone to crash explorer.exe, wreck drivers, create security loopholes and runs a lot smoother then the latter. Yippie for small mercies, I guess.

From what I've seen of Dead Space 2 so far the deauthorization actually works, so hopefully we won't get a repeat of Crysis where after you've reached the actication limit, you were told by techsupport you had to buy a new copy of the game to get new actications.

Modifié par Raygereio, 17 février 2011 - 10:39 .

[SupedUpGhostChili]

i would like to see the drm optional so i can choose to use the cd and actually be able to play the game i bought any time i want even if my internet is offline for what ever reason...these spyware programs make it feel less like a purchase and more like an expensive rental

[Tricky_Rich]

Raygereio wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
So any word on the final form of DRM yet?

Judging from what we got so far it's going to be the same as Dead Space 2's DRM. In other words the exact same crap as Bioshock and Mass Effect 1 with you having to ask if EA/BioWare if they can be so kind as to allow you to play the game you bought.  
This time however it wil probably use SolidShield instead of SecureROM; the former being less prone to crash explorer.exe, wreck drivers, create security loopholes and runs a lot smoother then the latter. Yippie for small mercies, I guess.

From what I've seen of Dead Space 2 so far the deauthorization actually works, so hopefully we won't get a repeat of Crysis where after you've reached the actication limit, you were told by techsupport you had to buy a new copy of the game to get new actications.

It's already been revealed that Dead Space 2 uses Solid Shield AND SecuROM! (Insane...I know!)

(I did say earlier in this thread, that I was out of here, but I'm still checking this thread from time to time out of curiosity...)

Modifié par Tricky_Rich, 17 février 2011 - 01:36 .

[Raygereio]

Tricky_Rich wrote...
It's already been revealed that Dead Space 2 uses Solid Shield AND SecuROM! (Insane...I know!)

*reads up on it*
Well I'll be... That's just retarded; especially given that SolidShield also can do a release date check and even more so considering that the first version of the pirated copy of the game was available three days before the release date.

If you'll excuse me; i'm just going to cry in a corner for a while now. My fragile psycho can only take so much stupidity in one day.

[Tabak]

This thread is about the RETAIL version of Dragon Age II - not the digital download version you can get from Steam. If people have dodgy or limited Internet access, or slow dial-up connections (or no connection at all), they are not going to opt for a digital download. With both the EA store and Steam its not just the game that has to download. Both require people to install client software just to be able to download the game & install it. 

By all means, use Steam if you like. but Steam's DRM has got nothing to do with the topic of this thread. 

Although this is a discussion about DRM & its really hard not to mention the reasons given for using DRM schemes, please don't discuss piracy here. Another thread about DRM was closed because it veered off into mentioning that unmentionable word and we really need to keep this thread open. If the thread is closed Bioware has an excuse for never giving us answers. If it stays open & its obvious we are all sticking to the rules, being polite, AND still not getting answers, then it will be clear to everyone reading it that Bioware can't be bothered answering its customers. 

Most of the people who have posted in this thread are already Bioware customers. Some of us have supported Bioware for years. It's easier to keep existing customers and build on that customer base than it is to get new ones. I know that, for me, if Bioware doesn't clarify this issue soon I'll be cancelling pre-orders and won't be buying another Bioware game. 

[Reaverwind]

Tricky_Rich wrote...

Raygereio wrote...

slimgrin wrote...
So any word on the final form of DRM yet?

Judging from what we got so far it's going to be the same as Dead Space 2's DRM. In other words the exact same crap as Bioshock and Mass Effect 1 with you having to ask if EA/BioWare if they can be so kind as to allow you to play the game you bought.  
This time however it wil probably use SolidShield instead of SecureROM; the former being less prone to crash explorer.exe, wreck drivers, create security loopholes and runs a lot smoother then the latter. Yippie for small mercies, I guess.

From what I've seen of Dead Space 2 so far the deauthorization actually works, so hopefully we won't get a repeat of Crysis where after you've reached the actication limit, you were told by techsupport you had to buy a new copy of the game to get new actications.

It's already been revealed that Dead Space 2 uses Solid Shield AND SecuROM! (Insane...I know!)

(I did say earlier in this thread, that I was out of here, but I'm still checking this thread from time to time out of curiosity...)

Yes, read about that. Am so glad I waited to buy it - and now I'm not buying it at all.

[Tabak]

Glaucon wrote...

Tabak wrote..
....

"If the thread is closed Bioware has an excuse for never giving us answers.".
....

I'm not certain that they have any excuse for failing to notify users of the DRM scheme being implemented. I'm fairly sure that it was a condition of a settlement of a class action law suit that any future release must include said notification in detail.

I guess it would depend on what level of detail they are required to give? Some answers were given here: http://social.biowar...1/index/5887403

The two big questions relate to these points:

- There is a limit to the number of unique/different PCs that can start/play the game within a time window [5 PCs in 24hrs].

Q. Does this mean server checks are being done regularly/continuously through each 24 hour period? (Otherwise, how would Bioware/EA monitor this?)

- You can play offline but the game will require a login check after a select period of days.

Q. How often will this happen? What happens if the game does not find an internet connection? What happens if the Bioware server fails to respond? Will the check allow the game to continue to be played until x-number of failed login checks have passed? Is the check designed to check on the number of hours a game has been played or is it tied to actual days (ie. will gamers have an idea of when they need to have Internet access)?

And the big question - is Bioware prepared to remove that login check so that people with limited or no Internet connection can play the game they purchased? 

I guess the biggest question is - will Bioware ever respond to our concerns & let us know the details? 

[Finis Valorum]

[/quote]

I guess the biggest question is - will Bioware ever respond to our concerns & let us know the details? 


[/quote]

Since EA management would likely prohibit them from doing so even if they possessed and were willing to share that information I'd say no.

[FDrage]

Tabak wrote...

I guess it would depend on what level of detail they are required to give? Some answers were given here: http://social.biowar...1/index/5887403

Considering that this topic has been unstickied (it was stickied at one point ... iirc) and locked (to some degree understandable) ... on could argue that it is as good as burried.

[Gvaz]

They'll let you know when the game is like 2 weeks before release.

Modifié par GvazElite, 17 février 2011 - 03:09 .

[Unato]

48hrs before launch they'll be like "hey guys you need to re authenticate every 2days"



=D

[RiverLucky]

No one from Bioware dares venture in this thread to give us an answer...