663 réponses à ce sujet

[Reaverwind]

[quote]Finis Valorum wrote...

[/quote]

I guess the biggest question is - will Bioware ever respond to our concerns & let us know the details? 


[/quote]

Since EA management would likely prohibit them from doing so even if they possessed and were willing to share that information I'd say no.

[/quote]

I'd count on EA/Bioware sliding something through ala Dead Space 2.

[RiverLucky]

[quote]Reaverwind wrote...

[quote]Finis Valorum wrote...

[/quote]

I guess the biggest question is - will Bioware ever respond to our concerns & let us know the details? 


[/quote]

Since EA management would likely prohibit them from doing so even if they possessed and were willing to share that information I'd say no.

[/quote]

I'd count on EA/Bioware sliding something through ala Dead Space 2.[/quote]

Is SECUROM software that prevents you from uninstallaing games also?

I had the problem when I wanted to uninstall oblivion and it was looking for a the game DVD...

[Raygereio]

RiverLucky wrote...
I had the problem when I wanted to uninstall oblivion and it was looking for a the game DVD...

That's not related to any DRM, nor is that a bug. It's feature; Bethesda's prgramming and design at work.

Modifié par Raygereio, 17 février 2011 - 04:14 .

[Spinifer]

Isn't this silence deafening, Bioware? 

[Mage One]

I will be really upset if the silence means what so many think it does. I don't want to cancel my pre-order, but I will. It does seem like they are planning to release the info post-demo, which is especially discouraging. Still, here I am, waiting to decide whether or not to keep my pre-order and buy DA: Ultimate Edition (I never played Awakenings and wasn't too interested to until I heard about some of the Awakenings stuff [like Anders] that might affect DAII. If I buy it now I should have enough time to beat it before DAII comes out.) because I'm willing to hold out hope that they scrapped at least the most offensive parts of their DRM scheme and will tell us about it before release. Basically that they, in my humble opinion, decided to do the right thing. If either of those is not true...well then I cancel, both my plans for picking up the ultimate edition and the pre-order. I won't switch to X-Box. All of my saves are on the PC.



The thing that I'll feel the worst about is one of the friends I talked into pre-ordering it (back when I thought worries that DA II would have anything other than a disc check were paranoia) was planning to wait until what he felt would be the inevitable ultimate edition release. He has a limited game budget and felt it made more sense for him just to wait. Talked up by me, though, he eventually decided to pre-order the game himself, in significant part because I was pre-ordering, and he wanted to be able to talk about the game as we played through together, like we did with Dragon Age: Origins. He grew so attached to the idea that shortly before Christmas, he advised I cancel my preorder, because if someone else, ("Anyone. It could be anyone.") decided to pre-order it for my Christmas present, keeping my pre-order would be "Highly inconvenient." Now, I may have to ask him to cancel it, and he, on the PS3, has said he really wouldn't blame me, but I could tell he's very unhappy by the proposition. He's been exited to play the game after launch for months now after he first decided to pre-order. I kind of feel responsible for the awkward situation he may find himself in.

[tishyw]

Reaverwind wrote...

I'd count on EA/Bioware sliding something through ala Dead Space 2.

If Dead Space 2 DRM is what we'll likely get, can someone fill me in on what it's like.  Specifically, how often the game phones home.

Thanks.

[Morroian]

Mage One wrote...

The thing that I'll feel the worst about is one of the friends I talked into pre-ordering it (back when I thought worries that DA II would have anything other than a disc check were paranoia) was planning to wait until what he felt would be the inevitable ultimate edition release. He has a limited game budget and felt it made more sense for him just to wait. Talked up by me, though, he eventually decided to pre-order the game himself, in significant part because I was pre-ordering, and he wanted to be able to talk about the game as we played through together, like we did with Dragon Age: Origins. He grew so attached to the idea that shortly before Christmas, he advised I cancel my preorder, because if someone else, ("Anyone. It could be anyone.") decided to pre-order it for my Christmas present, keeping my pre-order would be "Highly inconvenient." Now, I may have to ask him to cancel it, and he, on the PS3, has said he really wouldn't blame me, but I could tell he's very unhappy by the proposition. He's been exited to play the game after launch for months now after he first decided to pre-order. I kind of feel responsible for the awkward situation he may find himself in.

No offence but unless you have a poor internet connection the DRM as described is hardly bad enough to deny you and your friend the experience.

[AlanC9]

LiamN7 wrote...

Requiring an internet connection at all for a single player game is enough reason for me not to get it.

Why?

[Unato]

Not everyone has a stable active connection at home.

[Morroian]

LiamN7 wrote...

That depends Morroian .
Requiring an internet connection at all for a single player game is enough reason for me not to get it.  

Again no offence but you're living in the past.

Whats interesting is that only on here have I seen a semblance of strong sentiment against the DRM. On some other more general games forums I've been on the reaction to the DRM has been muted, along the lines of its better than other schemes.  

[Mage One]

Morroian wrote...
No offence but unless you have a poor internet connection the DRM as described is hardly bad enough to deny you and your friend the experience.

None taken.  I'm sure I could run it without more than the odd time or two the DRM check-in is likely to fail for me and result in my spending some unacceptable amount of time trying to get the game to recognize that I own it.  (This sort of thing has happened with nearly every DRM system that went beyond a disk check I've dealt with.  This includes the DRM on ME, Bring Down the Sky, and various bits of DA DLC.)  I just refuse to on principle.  Bioware/EA's fears regarding piracy are not suffient reason for me to accept dealing with that sort of thing yet again or forfeiting any of my rights as a consumer.  I should not have to accept this sort of thing as a necessary and inseperable part of PC gaming, and for two games, Bioware/EA agreed with me.  I understand some people feel my stance is irrational, but I disagree, and my friend is of a like mind.

[tishyw]

Mage One wrote...

Morroian wrote...
No offence but unless you have a poor internet connection the DRM as described is hardly bad enough to deny you and your friend the experience.

None taken.  I'm sure I could run it without more than the odd time or two the DRM check-in is likely to fail for me and result in my spending some unacceptable amount of time trying to get the game to recognize that I own it.  (This sort of thing has happened with nearly every DRM system that went beyond a disk check I've dealt with.  This includes the DRM on ME, Bring Down the Sky, and various bits of DA DLC.)  I just refuse to on principle.  Bioware/EA's fears regarding piracy are not suffient reason for me to accept dealing with that sort of thing yet again or forfeiting any of my rights as a consumer.  I should not have to accept this sort of thing as a necessary and inseperable part of PC gaming, and for two games, Bioware/EA agreed with me.  I understand some people feel my stance is irrational, but I disagree, and my friend is of a like mind.

This.  Creators of other pirated media (music, TV, Movies, etc) don't require the purchaser to regularly reasure them that the product is still genuine, so why is it acceptable for game developers/publishers to do it?

[Morroian]

tishyw wrote...

This.  Creators of other pirated media (music, TV, Movies, etc) don't require the purchaser to regularly reasure them that the product is still genuine, so why is it acceptable for game developers/publishers to do it?

I'd rather they didn't do it but so long as its not draconian and doesn't disrupt my system I accept it. They do it because these games are computer based and will probably have an internet connection. As opposed to most other forms of home entertainment.

Having said that other industries have tried to get some form of online checking going but haven't succeeded. Except don't blu ray players update themselves regularly if they have an internet connection? 

[coolide]

Unato wrote...

Not everyone has a stable active connection at home.

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

[coolide]

tishyw wrote...

Mage One wrote...

Morroian wrote...
No offence but unless you have a poor internet connection the DRM as described is hardly bad enough to deny you and your friend the experience.

None taken.  I'm sure I could run it without more than the odd time or two the DRM check-in is likely to fail for me and result in my spending some unacceptable amount of time trying to get the game to recognize that I own it.  (This sort of thing has happened with nearly every DRM system that went beyond a disk check I've dealt with.  This includes the DRM on ME, Bring Down the Sky, and various bits of DA DLC.)  I just refuse to on principle.  Bioware/EA's fears regarding piracy are not suffient reason for me to accept dealing with that sort of thing yet again or forfeiting any of my rights as a consumer.  I should not have to accept this sort of thing as a necessary and inseperable part of PC gaming, and for two games, Bioware/EA agreed with me.  I understand some people feel my stance is irrational, but I disagree, and my friend is of a like mind.

This.  Creators of other pirated media (music, TV, Movies, etc) don't require the purchaser to regularly reasure them that the product is still genuine, so why is it acceptable for game developers/publishers to do it?

That's because they currently have no way of doing so.

[Tricky_Rich]

Morroian wrote...

Again no offence but you're living in the past.

Whats interesting is that only on here have I seen a semblance of strong sentiment against the DRM. On some other more general games forums I've been on the reaction to the DRM has been muted, along the lines of its better than other schemes.  

I'm very happy for them, if they want to herd themselves sheeplike into this situation. They have probably never had problems with SecuROM knackering their PCs, whereas I have! Therefore, that damn malicious malware, (which I truly believe it to be,) isn't going anywhere near my new PC! End...of..story!

As SecuROM was slipped into retail disks of Dead Space 2, at the very last second, (alongside the already known about Solid Shield,) I'm now fully expecting that to happen with Dragon Age 2!

After buying both Mass Effect 2 (Collector's Edition) and Dragon Age: Origins, as well as all the old school Bioware games, they are in serious danger of losing me as a customer altogether, due to EA's recent DRM stance!

Oh well, Witcher 2 here I come! At least CDProjekt's CEO hasn't got his head in the sand regarding the absolute insanity of pissing off your paying customers with totally ineffective DRM schemes that only cause frustration, annoyance and in some cases actual PC damage! (Damage...as in firmware corruption on DVD drives, instability etc.)

Modifié par Tricky_Rich, 18 février 2011 - 01:03 .

[Mage One]

Morroian wrote...

I'd rather they didn't do it but so long as its not draconian and doesn't disrupt my system I accept it.

I can understand that, but my threshold for that sort of thing is the point where it offends me on principle in part to prevent things from getting to the point where it actually causes disruption.

coolide wrote...

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

[...]

That's because they currently have no way of doing so.

That's actually factually inaccurate.  CDs, for example, started playing with DRM that would auto-install on a computer once put into the drive.  They certainly had the means to include disk checks, as do movies.  Due to popular outcry and stiff competition, though, they backed off.

Also, the US only has about a 77% internet penetration rate.  For a while three of my friends lived in an apartment where, because of wonky zoning issues and beaurocracy on the aldermanic level, they could not get an internet connection installed.  They lived there for about three years.  I don't know how they were able to deal with it (it helped that the rent was a steal), but they did.

Modifié par Mage One, 18 février 2011 - 01:14 .

[Mage One]

Accidentally quoted instead of edited.  Whoops.

Modifié par Mage One, 18 février 2011 - 01:14 .

[Tricky_Rich]

Mage One wrote...

That's actually factually inaccurate.  CDs, for example, started playing with DRM that would auto-install on a computer once put into the drive.  They certainly had the means to include disk checks, as do movies.  Due to popular outcry and stiff competition, though, they backed off.

Ah, yes...the Sony rootkit fiasco! Sony are the same bozos behind SecuROM, if anyone's interested...

[robotnist]

so, catch me up here guys. whast the deal with the announcement made amonth ago about the DRM and everyone seemed happy? has that changed now?



from what i remember, steam version only had steam protection and the boxed version was very tolerable. i cant remember specifics, but it was something like 10 installs at once on any PC. 1 account key activation, or it would check every once in a while but you didnt have to use the disk. kinda like assassins creed 2 was on PC, and for me i had no issues with it. (lucky)

[Tabak]

coolide wrote...

Unato wrote...

Not everyone has a stable active connection at home.

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

And people living in rural areas of many first-world countries, our soldiers doing their tours of duty in various countries around the world, people who go on vacation who planned to play games while they were relaxing, the people who travel a lot & who play on airplanes, the people who use cellphones as modems (paying for mobile data plans, where every connection costs money).... you want me to go on?

The only people who won't be hurt by this DRM are the ones who aren't affected by any DRM and they don't pay for the game anyway. 

When I buy a game I am buying the right to legally play the game. If Bioware wants to include measures that don't allow me to play that's fair enough - its their business and they can decide how they want to release their games. BUT they could, at least, be courteous enough to provide the answers we need so we can make informed decisions. 

Little by little, gamers' rights are being eroded. We are treated as if we are an enemy that has to be protected against. I can live with online activation. I can live with handing over my email address and game details to EA & Bioware. I have no doubt they could collect interesting data from the hookup between EA accounts and the amount of time we spend playing their games (which may be the main reason behind requiring phone home checks for all we know). I can't live with any online requirement beyond the initial activation. Because that will prevent me from playing the game. 

If other people have reliable 24/7 Internet access & don't care about DRM - good on you! Not everyone has that luxury & as pages of posts here have shown, there ARE people who care about DRM. All we want are answers.

[Tabak]

etherhonky wrote...

so, catch me up here guys. whast the deal with the announcement made amonth ago about the DRM and everyone seemed happy? has that changed now?

Yeah, that "everyone" was so happy the thread went on to 40 pages then got locked without any answers being given. It's here if you want to read it: http://social.biowar...index/5887403/1

Just like in this thread, people wanted to know some specifics and Bioware wasn't answering.