663 réponses à ce sujet

[Tricky_Rich]

etherhonky wrote...

so, catch me up here guys. whast the deal with the announcement made amonth ago about the DRM and everyone seemed happy? has that changed now?

from what i remember, steam version only had steam protection and the boxed version was very tolerable. i cant remember specifics, but it was something like 10 installs at once on any PC. 1 account key activation, or it would check every once in a while but you didnt have to use the disk. kinda like assassins creed 2 was on PC, and for me i had no issues with it. (lucky)

If you were cool with the Assassin's Creed 2 implementation of DRM, I think it's fair to say that you're not going to be phased by anything Bioware announce regarding Dragon Age 2 DRM!

[MDarwin]

coolide wrote...

Unato wrote...

Not everyone has a stable active connection at home.

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

Do you live in a Dream World? Carry on.

[Morroian]

Tricky_Rich wrote...

I'm very happy for them, if they want to herd themselves sheeplike into this situation. They have probably never had problems with SecuROM knackering their PCs, whereas I have! Therefore, that damn malicious malware, (which I truly believe it to be,) isn't going anywhere near my new PC! End...of..story!

As SecuROM was slipped into retail disks of Dead Space 2, at the very last second, (alongside the already known about Solid Shield,) I'm now fully expecting that to happen with Dragon Age 2!

Well on the information we have that won't happen. If it does happen obviously it will be unacceptable but until then you're making assumptions, and its not being sheeplike to not jump to the worst possible assumption.

Modifié par Morroian, 18 février 2011 - 01:47 .

[slimgrin]

coolide wrote...

Unato wrote...

Not everyone has a stable active connection at home.

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

Coolide, you need to give up this crusade of yours. We aren't even discussing your platform, so why do you care?

Modifié par slimgrin, 18 février 2011 - 02:54 .

[MDarwin]

Spinifer wrote...

Isn't this silence deafening, Bioware? 

It is! The DRM of DAO was anounced fairly early, as far as I remember right.

[Tricky_Rich]

Morroian wrote...

Tricky_Rich wrote...

I'm very happy for them, if they want to herd themselves sheeplike into this situation. They have probably never had problems with SecuROM knackering their PCs, whereas I have! Therefore, that damn malicious malware, (which I truly believe it to be,) isn't going anywhere near my new PC! End...of..story!

As SecuROM was slipped into retail disks of Dead Space 2, at the very last second, (alongside the already known about Solid Shield,) I'm now fully expecting that to happen with Dragon Age 2!

Well on the information we have that won't happen. If it does happen obviously it will be unacceptable but until then you're making assumptions, and its not being sheeplike to not jump to the worst possible assumption.

As human beings we all make assumptions to get by. I base my working life on the assumption that the sun is going to rise in the morning!

See...assumptions can be good...

Anyway, based on EA's recent performance, I think my assumption is a far safer one to make than yours!

Modifié par Tricky_Rich, 18 février 2011 - 01:57 .

[Mage One]

etherhonky wrote...

so, catch me up here guys. whast the deal with the announcement made amonth ago about the DRM and everyone seemed happy? has that changed now?

from what i remember, steam version only had steam protection and the boxed version was very tolerable. i cant remember specifics, but it was something like 10 installs at once on any PC. 1 account key activation, or it would check every once in a while but you didnt have to use the disk. kinda like assassins creed 2 was on PC, and for me i had no issues with it. (lucky)

Well, the generous way of putting it is that the reaction was mixed, and I think it's safe to say that hasn't changed.  Some people said it poses no problems, and everyone who had problems with it was a tin-foil hat-wearing crazy or behind the times.  Others said the DRM would bring about the apocalypse.  I like to think most people were at a more reasonable middle.

As far as the specifics, they said the game would check in at startup and could go a number of days without needing to check in.  They never specified how long the game could go without phoning home or what data was collected when it did though.  Also, they said the DRM they mentioned wasn't final and the game might not need to phone home at all.  They were still in discussion.  They never got back to us about that.  Also there was an online authentication required on install.  Left unconfirmed and not denied, though, was whether or not the game could only be registered to an account once, making it virtually unsellable afterward.

The instals were unlimited, though, and there was no disc check.

[robotnist]

ah ok, thanks a bunch for the swell round up of info Mage One... you can put away your lasso and put your feet up, heres a nice cool glass of lemonade for all your hard work.



thats right, thats what all the "phoning home" remarks were about then... OOOOH... lol



and @ tricky rich, i guess i should clarify, i do think much of the DRM employed by devs/publishers arent cool. i happened to be lucky with AC2's DRM, and my internet didnt go down once while playing. but all it takes is one time for this to happen and its infringing on our rights of ownership. \\



if anything ever keeps any of us, who payed for a retail copy of a product, from playing said product, then its not worth it. i would like to see more consideration for long bouts of downed internet, with the world ending as it is and the crazy weather we have had, imagine your house gets hit by another crazy ice storm like we have had so many times this year. power goes out for a few hours or 2 days, and you finally get your power back, but the internet lines are still down and you wanted to install and play DA2 before death came to claim your soul and before Al gore shows up to say "told you so...



if we are required to call mum to ask if we can play DA2, and we dont get her "permission" i will be a very sad little boy... and then i'll need a spanking and i will go to.... nevermind, TMI.

[coolide]

slimgrin wrote...

coolide wrote...

Unato wrote...

Not everyone has a stable active connection at home.

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

Coolide, you need to give up this crusade of yours. We're aren't even discussing your platform, so why do you care?

Because I have an opinion.  Why do you care?  You have the Internet.  The only people with the right to complain are those without Internet access.

[coolide]

Tabak wrote...

coolide wrote...

Unato wrote...

Not everyone has a stable active connection at home.

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

And people living in rural areas of many first-world countries, our soldiers doing their tours of duty in various countries around the world, people who go on vacation who planned to play games while they were relaxing, the people who travel a lot & who play on airplanes, the people who use cellphones as modems (paying for mobile data plans, where every connection costs money).... you want me to go on?

The only people who won't be hurt by this DRM are the ones who aren't affected by any DRM and they don't pay for the game anyway. 

When I buy a game I am buying the right to legally play the game. If Bioware wants to include measures that don't allow me to play that's fair enough - its their business and they can decide how they want to release their games. BUT they could, at least, be courteous enough to provide the answers we need so we can make informed decisions. 

Little by little, gamers' rights are being eroded. We are treated as if we are an enemy that has to be protected against. I can live with online activation. I can live with handing over my email address and game details to EA & Bioware. I have no doubt they could collect interesting data from the hookup between EA accounts and the amount of time we spend playing their games (which may be the main reason behind requiring phone home checks for all we know). I can't live with any online requirement beyond the initial activation. Because that will prevent me from playing the game. 

If other people have reliable 24/7 Internet access & don't care about DRM - good on you! Not everyone has that luxury & as pages of posts here have shown, there ARE people who care about DRM. All we want are answers.

People in rural areas have Internet access.  So do people in the military who are overeas.  So would any resort you would stay at in the entire world.  You don't have to be connected to the Internet 24/7.  They already said that.  Stop being so ridiculous.

[tishyw]

coolide wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

coolide wrote...

Unato wrote...

Not everyone has a stable active connection at home.

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

Coolide, you need to give up this crusade of yours. We're aren't even discussing your platform, so why do you care?

Because I have an opinion.  Why do you care?  You have the Internet.  The only people with the right to complain are those without Internet access.

Why we care has been explained to you several times before, please stop spamming/trolling DRM threads with the same question.

[Tabak]

Morroian wrote...

Tricky_Rich wrote...

I'm very happy for them, if they want to herd themselves sheeplike into this situation. They have probably never had problems with SecuROM knackering their PCs, whereas I have! Therefore, that damn malicious malware, (which I truly believe it to be,) isn't going anywhere near my new PC! End...of..story!

As SecuROM was slipped into retail disks of Dead Space 2, at the very last second, (alongside the already known about Solid Shield,) I'm now fully expecting that to happen with Dragon Age 2!

Well on the information we have that won't happen. If it does happen obviously it will be unacceptable but until then you're making assumptions, and its not being sheeplike to not jump to the worst possible assumption.

I agree that we shouldn't jump to conclusions. BUT with the information that was given for Dead Space 2 it wasn't going to happen either. If you look at the EULA for DS2, there is nothing there to indicate that it HAS happened. http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas

Compare the DS2 EULA to what we have been told about DA2 and its much the same, except that DA2 also includes a regular phone home. 

For those who want to know what is in Dead Space 2 & whether we need to be worried about the lack of information about DRM in Dragon Age 2, there's a good overview here: 
http://www.reclaimyo...In-Dead-Space-2

It's past time Bioware put this uncertainty to rest & responded to these questions. 

[SomeBug]

coolide wrote...

slimgrin wrote...

coolide wrote...

Unato wrote...

Not everyone has a stable active connection at home.

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

Coolide, you need to give up this crusade of yours. We're aren't even discussing your platform, so why do you care?

Because I have an opinion.  Why do you care?  You have the Internet.  The only people with the right to complain are those without Internet access.

Did you just generalize Africa as being the same. It's a very large continent, fyi, with an equally large spread of affluence and internet access.

Furthermore, he was talking about a stable connection. Those on a wireless setup, those on mobile broadband or simply those with a terrible provider can experience a fluctuating service. I hope you read that.

[Reaverwind]

Morroian wrote...

Tricky_Rich wrote...

I'm very happy for them, if they want to herd themselves sheeplike into this situation. They have probably never had problems with SecuROM knackering their PCs, whereas I have! Therefore, that damn malicious malware, (which I truly believe it to be,) isn't going anywhere near my new PC! End...of..story!

As SecuROM was slipped into retail disks of Dead Space 2, at the very last second, (alongside the already known about Solid Shield,) I'm now fully expecting that to happen with Dragon Age 2!

Well on the information we have that won't happen. If it does happen obviously it will be unacceptable but until then you're making assumptions, and its not being sheeplike to not jump to the worst possible assumption.

Feel free to test that out for us. We'll wait.

[coolide]

Mage One wrote...

Morroian wrote...

I'd rather they didn't do it but so long as its not draconian and doesn't disrupt my system I accept it.

I can understand that, but my threshold for that sort of thing is the point where it offends me on principle in part to prevent things from getting to the point where it actually causes disruption.

coolide wrote...

Yeah maybe people in Africa.  But they have bigger things to worry about.

[...]

That's because they currently have no way of doing so.

That's actually factually inaccurate.  CDs, for example, started playing with DRM that would auto-install on a computer once put into the drive.  They certainly had the means to include disk checks, as do movies.  Due to popular outcry and stiff competition, though, they backed off.

Also, the US only has about a 77% internet penetration rate.  For a while three of my friends lived in an apartment where, because of wonky zoning issues and beaurocracy on the aldermanic level, they could not get an internet connection installed.  They lived there for about three years.  I don't know how they were able to deal with it (it helped that the rent was a steal), but they did.

It more has to do with the fact that only a very small percentage of people listen to music on their computers through a CD.  Most use them in their car or CD player.

[coolide]

tishyw wrote...
Why we care has been explained to you several times before, please stop spamming/trolling DRM threads with the same question.

I would just like to hear a legitimate argument against it that's all.  You all have the Internet, so by arguing every single day about it, you are disproving your argument that Internet access is such a pain in the ass.

[Tabak]

coolide wrote...
People in rural areas have Internet access.  So do people in the military who are overeas.  So would any resort you would stay at in the entire world.  You don't have to be connected to the Internet 24/7.  They already said that.  Stop being so ridiculous.

Other people here have managed to keep this thread civil and on topic. DRM concerns them. It doesn't concern you. The topic is the retail PC version of the game. It is not an opinion thread or a thread titled, "console gamers please come and derail this conversation". It really doesn't matter what your opinion of our concerns is, consoles don't have the same DRM so this subject is irrelevant to you.

If you want to know what the concerns are, then read the thread. Read the other 40-page thread. Use Google. 

We have asked Bioware to explain the DRM they intend to use & explained our concerns already. 

Modifié par Tabak, 18 février 2011 - 02:35 .

[coolide]

SomeBug wrote...

Did you just generalize Africa as being the same. It's a very large continent, fyi, with an equally large spread of affluence and internet access.

Furthermore, he was talking about a stable connection. Those on a wireless setup, those on mobile broadband or simply those with a terrible provider can experience a fluctuating service. I hope you read that.

Of course it has rich people.  But it's the poorest place on earth along with Haiti.

Futhermore, you don't need a stable Internet connection for this.  You're not playing Halo multiplayer.  Maybe if you would read what they actualy said about it you would realize it's nothing at all and stop your complaining and ignorance.

[tishyw]

coolide wrote...

tishyw wrote...
Why we care has been explained to you several times before, please stop spamming/trolling DRM threads with the same question.

I would just like to hear a legitimate argument against it that's all.  You all have the Internet, so by arguing every single day about it, you are disproving your argument that Internet access is such a pain in the ass.

OK, my argument against it is because I only have my modem switch on when I'm actively on the internet, if I'm playing a game, I switch it off for security reasons.  With the phone home option, I have to have the internet connection on at other times.
Additionally, I really don't see how what I do with the game I paid for is any of EA's marketing dept's business, they can keep their nosy nose out of my computer.

[coolide]

Tabak wrote...

coolide wrote...
People in rural areas have Internet access.  So do people in the military who are overeas.  So would any resort you would stay at in the entire world.  You don't have to be connected to the Internet 24/7.  They already said that.  Stop being so ridiculous.

Other people here have managed to keep this thread civil and on topic. DRM concerns them. It doesn't concern you. The topic is the retail PC version of the game. It is not an opinion thread or a thread titled, "console gamers please come and derail this conversation". It really doesn't matter what your opinion of our concerns is, consoles don't have the same DRM so this subject is irrelevant to you.

If you want to know what the concerns are, then read the thread. Read the other 40-page thread. Use Google. 

We have asked Bioware to explain the DRM they intend to use & explained our concerns already. 

That's a ridiculous comment.  Maybe I'm a significant shareholder of EA.  What do you know?  This could concern me far more than it concerns any of you.

And I'm am keeping this thread civil.  Unless you classify disagreeing with you and providing counter arguments to your arguments being uncivil.  I guess in **** Germany that would be considered being uncivil.

[slimgrin]

coolide wrote...

tishyw wrote...
Why we care has been explained to you several times before, please stop spamming/trolling DRM threads with the same question.

I would just like to hear a legitimate argument against it that's all.  You all have the Internet, so by arguing every single day about it, you are disproving your argument that Internet access is such a pain in the ass.

For the 100000000000000th time:

Internet connections are not always stable. Even SC2 lets you play offline as a guest, but apparantly DA2 will lock you out if you can't check in? That's ridiculous. What if I move to another apt. without internet access? I just throw the game away cause I can't play it anymore?

No one should have to go through this if they have proven they've bought the game. We're all talking about the principle of the drm scheme, and in pricinple, its unfair, so we are voicing our discontent.

This is just sport for you. You don't like the pc master race. We get it. Please move on.

Modifié par slimgrin, 18 février 2011 - 02:41 .

[coolide]

tishyw wrote...

coolide wrote...

tishyw wrote...
Why we care has been explained to you several times before, please stop spamming/trolling DRM threads with the same question.

I would just like to hear a legitimate argument against it that's all.  You all have the Internet, so by arguing every single day about it, you are disproving your argument that Internet access is such a pain in the ass.

OK, my argument against it is because I only have my modem switch on when I'm actively on the internet, if I'm playing a game, I switch it off for security reasons.  With the phone home option, I have to have the internet connection on at other times.
Additionally, I really don't see how what I do with the game I paid for is any of EA's marketing dept's business, they can keep their nosy nose out of my computer.

They don't go snooping around your computer looking for porn and your credit card information.  Don't be so paranoid.  If you don't like it, get an XBox or PS3 and stop complaining about it.  They're not going to change it.  Either way, PC gaming will be extinct within a decade if they find no solution to pirating games because consoles are just so much more profitable for them.

[coolide]

coolide wrote...

tishyw wrote...

coolide wrote...

tishyw wrote...
Why we care has been explained to you several times before, please stop spamming/trolling DRM threads with the same question.

I would just like to hear a legitimate argument against it that's all.  You all have the Internet, so by arguing every single day about it, you are disproving your argument that Internet access is such a pain in the ass.

OK, my argument against it is because I only have my modem switch on when I'm actively on the internet, if I'm playing a game, I switch it off for security reasons.  With the phone home option, I have to have the internet connection on at other times.
Additionally, I really don't see how what I do with the game I paid for is any of EA's marketing dept's business, they can keep their nosy nose out of my computer.

They don't go snooping around your computer looking for porn and your credit card information.  Don't be so paranoid.  If you don't like it, get an XBox or PS3 and stop complaining about it.  They're not going to change it.  Either way, PC gaming will be extinct within a decade if they find no solution to pirating games because consoles are just so much more profitable for them.

Maybe you should go read what they said on it again because a stable Internet isn't required.  If you have a brief Internet connection every 10 days or whatever the time they said was, then you are good to go.

[tishyw]

coolide wrote...

Maybe you should go read what they said on it again because a stable Internet isn't required.  If you have a brief Internet connection every 10 days or whatever the time they said was, then you are good to go.

You asked for reasons, I gave them to you.  I don't need you're approval of them. 

What I'd like to know is why, as an Xbox player, are you concerned about PC gamers being concerned about the PC's DRM anyway?  Oh that's right, you're a troll, I'll stop feeding you.