663 réponses à ce sujet

[mcneil_1]

Mage One wrote...

mcneil_1 wrote...
If I remember correctly, you can only install it 5 times in a certain given period (but all are linked to one EA/Bioware account), plus the game itself as a part of the drm will (tentatively) phone home to EA's server just to make sure you have a legit copy and Bioware/EA account every so often <_<

As for registering it on steam I dont think so (no store bought EA game as far as I can tell has been able to do that).

That's not correct, actually.  You can install it as many times and on as many systems as you like.  You can only play it on up to five systems within a 24-hour period.  You can read more details on the first post here.  Note, though, that they do not disclose what information they collect when the game "phones home."  Also, it has been noted elsewhere that it seems whatever they put on your system may interfere with other programs on your PC that can "potentially" interfere with their DRM, and the game can only ever be authorised to one account.

Sorry about that, I was in a bit of a rush when I typed it.

[Seifz]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Mage One wrote...

Well, a lot of us are waiting for full disclosure. In that same thread, they said they hadn't decided whether or not all the systems mentioned would be included. (This was after questions of how long the game could go without "phoning home.") So there are a good number of us who are waiting to hear the final word before we make our decision. The general impression most of us have is because they'll give the final word on DRM after the demo launches on the hopes that after playing the demo, we'll get the game despite them having put in the sort of DRM we've been hoping they won't. As I've said, I hope we're wrong because I really want to get the game, but no matter how awesome the demo is, if it has certain systems in place, I won't.

Well, at least you're an honest and rational person. Most of the people speaking outrageously about DRM have clearly played DA:O but conspiculously do not have the game under their avatar while posting, loosing any sense of credibility here. And while one could come up with a million excuses for this, I tend to believe the simple answers tend to be the correct ones more often than not.

At least you're a paying customer. I'm not sure why so man of the other protestors think anyone should care about their opinion on this matter if they didn't bother to  pay to play the game in the first place.

Eh, plenty of us purchased and registered DA:O.  I've had DA2 pre-ordered since October.  We want to know what we're buying and BioWare's silence is poor form.

Anyways, while I personally think DRM is completely ineffective, I also have had no personal issues with it.  I don't really care if they are collecting private information from me or if I have to be connected to the internet or any of a million other reasons people give for disliking DRM. I've never had a game stop working because of DRM-no matter how draconian-either, though I'm aware such posts always spring up of these issues happening.

Lucky you?  I've had plenty of trouble with DRM systems in the past.  Even if I didn't, my personal information is personal.  Why should I give it to EA for free so that they can make money with it?  I already paid them for the game.  Further, the idea that any DRM scheme would intentionally break other software that might "interfere" with it is horrible.  I don't know about you, but I do a lot of programming for a living.  Thus, I have all sorts of debugging tools installed on this machine.  If there's even a chance that DA2's DRM could break them, I have no choice but to not install DA2.

But, since I do think DRM is completely ineffective, as people brought up in the age of Google who believe everything in life should be "free" are probably going to pirate a game, DRM or not, I'd think companies would save a lot of angst if they just didn't bother with it. DRM, all by itself, is rarely-if ever-the reason someone decided to pirate a game, despite all  the self-righteous "DRM is evil, and I'm going to pirate to show you!!!" comments on the internet. Such comments are just moral brushes individuals use to paint up their own amoral selves with so they can sleep at night. Some people will always "cheat" to get free stuff. DRM doesn't stop these people.

The DRM is precisely why I won't be using the official executable when I play the game!  I'll still purchase it, of course.  I'm not a pirate.  But there's no way in hell that I'll install anything like the DRM system described in the first post.

[N3n]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Well, at least you're an honest and rational person. Most of the people speaking outrageously about DRM have clearly played DA:O but conspiculously do not have the game under their avatar while posting, loosing any sense of credibility here. And while one could come up with a million excuses for this, I tend to believe the simple answers tend to be the correct ones more often than not.

At least you're a paying customer. I'm not sure why so man of the other protestors think anyone should care about their opinion on this matter if they didn't bother to  pay to play the game in the first place.

Maybe they own second hand copies, who knows, so bashing on each other will get us nowhere only off-topic and eventually to locked tread without answered questions.

Seifz wrote...
Eh, plenty of us purchased and registered DA:O.  I've had DA2 pre-ordered since October.  We want to know what we're buying and BioWare's silence is poor form.

True, but I don't think we will get any answer, DA2 went gold almost 10 days ago and nobody from Bioware made any post here about DRM. It looks like they don't care.

[Tabak]

N3n wrote...

 DA2 went gold almost 10 days ago and nobody from Bioware made any post here about DRM. It looks like they don't care.

It sure does  I suggest everyone read the EULA, all 28 pages of it: http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_DA2+_with+Cider_.1.4.pdf
Read it and weep. The EULA does not give any rights to transfer so unless they change this then the right of first sale has gone. 

Also worth noting is that there is not a separate release for Mac users. The retail version for PC also plays on a Mac. so the same disk is for both platforms. This means that the Cider wrapper, complete with SecuROM is also on that disk. Dead Space 2 was released with one disk for both PC & Mac too, and included SecuROM for both platforms. 

If DA2 has managed to separate Cider completely from the Windows version then Mac users would be entitled to be extremely unhappy. If the SecuROM component of it affects both PC & Mac then this would really show bad faith from Bioware, and make for a whole heap more unhappy lost customers.

The EULA appears to contradict the statements made by Bioware devs here: http://social.biowar...ex/5887403&lf=8

While I think we should all read the EULA (which is the only information that is binding), I don't think we should panic yet. It may be that the left hand (Bioware) doesn't know what the right hand (EA) is doing, and silence from Bioware might just mean they are arguing with EA on our behalf. 

However, we have been waiting a long time for clarification of the DRM & its getting hard not to lose faith with Bioware over this. 

[Chaos-fusion]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Anyways, while I personally think DRM is completely ineffective, I also have had no personal issues with it.  I don't really care if they are collecting private information from me or if I have to be connected to the internet or any of a million other reasons people give for disliking DRM. I've never had a game stop working because of DRM-no matter how draconian-either, though I'm aware such posts always spring up of these issues happening.

That is perfectly reasonable. I myself, have barely had trouble with DRM either (although, if my internet goes down for a week - which it has several times in the past, regardless of the provider - it can leave me unable to play all the parts of the game I payed for) my objection to it is more to do with the "DRM feature creep" that was mentioned several pages ago (DNA scanners are the future, mark my words! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/tongue.png[/smilie]). I have no problem with developers/publishers wanting to protect their product, not at all. I just think they could do it in a way that is still unintrusive and respectful to people who pay. When DRM gets to the point were if hinders only the people who actually payed for it, then your system is flawed.

N3n wrote...

True, but I don't think we will get any answer, DA2 went gold almost 10 days ago and nobody from Bioware made any post here about DRM. It looks like they don't care.[smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/sad.png[/smilie]

I imagine it's because those who can, either have nothing new to say, or are unable to just yet. There is still just under, what, 3 weeks(?) until the game comes out. Just need a little patience. Not that I'm not eager for info, of course, if they still have said nothing new by March, you'll find me pouting in a corner somewhere.

MartinPham wrote...

Blood-Lord Thanatos wrote...

what was the original DRM scheme like for Origins?

See HERE RE: Evaluation on Dragon Age + Its DRM at the time.

Thanks for that link. Given the current lack of answers, I'll be keeping an eye out for DA2 on there, rather than buying it anytime soon. Good job I have my huge stockpile of GOG games to pass the time until they either patch it out or something better catches my eye. *Shameless promotion for a fantastic site*

Really wish they'd just stick with a disk check, since the ton of DLC will cause enough authentication trouble as it is, if it's anything like origins - at least with that, you can disable the dlc and still play the game..

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 20 février 2011 - 11:52 .

[Tabak]

Glaucon wrote...

Still no disclosure then?  

No, and its possible there may not be. If the EA EULA is what we are stuck with then its not in Bioware's best interest to confirm it until after launch. Those first week sales are all important. Most people won't read the EULA. Many will read the forums. If profit is the overarching motive then ignoring concerned potential customers here would be better than drawing attention to intrusive DRM wouldn't it?  

[Eurypterid]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...

Well, at least you're an honest and rational person. Most of the people speaking outrageously about DRM have clearly played DA:O but conspiculously do not have the game under their avatar while posting, loosing any sense of credibility here.

I'm just going to step in here and point out that you're wonrg. These forums do NOT require anyone to register their game in order to post in the general section. Just because someone does not have a game registered does NOT mean they're a pirate, does NOT mean their opinion is of any less value, and does NOT mean they loose any credibility.

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...And while one could come up with a million excuses for this, I tend to believe the simple answers tend to be the correct ones more often than not.

At least you're a paying customer. I'm not sure why so man of the other protestors think anyone should care about their opinion on this matter if they didn't bother to  pay to play the game in the first place.

Be careful of assumptions. As noted above, the lack of a registered game doesn't mean anything more than that a particular person didn't bother to register their game.

[AlanC9]

Tabak wrote...
It sure does  I suggest everyone read the EULA, all 28 pages of it: http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_DA2+_with+Cider_.1.4.pdf
Read it and weep. The EULA does not give any rights to transfer so unless they change this then the right of first sale has gone. 

If they're really planning to block all resales, then the announced DLC for new copies doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense.

[Oppopji]

Probably because they can't block the resale of the console versions (yet)

[mcneil_1]

Tabak wrote...

N3n wrote...

 DA2 went gold almost 10 days ago and nobody from Bioware made any post here about DRM. It looks like they don't care.

It sure does  I suggest everyone read the EULA, all 28 pages of it: http://eacom.s3.amazonaws.com/EULA_DA2+_with+Cider_.1.4.pdf
Read it and weep. The EULA does not give any rights to transfer so unless they change this then the right of first sale has gone. 

Also worth noting is that there is not a separate release for Mac users. The retail version for PC also plays on a Mac. so the same disk is for both platforms. This means that the Cider wrapper, complete with SecuROM is also on that disk. Dead Space 2 was released with one disk for both PC & Mac too, and included SecuROM for both platforms. 

If DA2 has managed to separate Cider completely from the Windows version then Mac users would be entitled to be extremely unhappy. If the SecuROM component of it affects both PC & Mac then this would really show bad faith from Bioware, and make for a whole heap more unhappy lost customers.

The EULA appears to contradict the statements made by Bioware devs here: http://social.biowar...ex/5887403&lf=8

While I think we should all read the EULA (which is the only information that is binding), I don't think we should panic yet. It may be that the left hand (Bioware) doesn't know what the right hand (EA) is doing, and silence from Bioware might just mean they are arguing with EA on our behalf. 

However, we have been waiting a long time for clarification of the DRM & its getting hard not to lose faith with Bioware over this. 

Ouch, so at least that explains how the DS2 securom was installed without most customers knowing.

[Darkeus]

marshalleck wrote...

I don't really care about this. Whatever DRM they settle on will be cracked within days, if not before the game's release date.

Exactly.  It doesn't matter what their DRM is, it will be cracked. 

There is no game that has been made that has proven that it cannot be cracked, Dragon Age 2 will not be special in this aspect.

I am buying it, I don't care but to think that any DRM matters anyway is just foolish on BioWare and EA's part....

[Darkeus]

kjdhgfiliuhwe wrote...


Be careful of assumptions. As noted above, the lack of a registered game doesn't mean anything more than that a particular person didn't bother to register their game.

Or had problems with the registration and just gave up on it, like me....

Modifié par Darkeus, 20 février 2011 - 07:06 .

[AlanC9]

Darkeus wrote...
Exactly.  It doesn't matter what their DRM is, it will be cracked.  

There is no game that has been made that has proven that it cannot be cracked, Dragon Age 2 will not be special in this aspect.

I am buying it, I don't care but to think that any DRM matters anyway is just foolish on BioWare and EA's part....

Foolish? Not necessarily. Glaucon had it right a few posts back. They dobn't have to stop piracy for this to be a success for them. Just slow it down a bit.

[Erszebeth]

Darkeus wrote...

Exactly.  It doesn't matter what their DRM is, it will be cracked. 

There is no game that has been made that has proven that it cannot be cracked, Dragon Age 2 will not be special in this aspect.

I am buying it, I don't care but to think that any DRM matters anyway is just foolish on BioWare and EA's part....

The purpose of DRM is to postpone the cracking for as long as they can. Pirates aren't very patient people, and are prone to buy the game if they can't get a cracked version in the first week of release, or so I remember reading in a fairly serious analysis on PC DRM a while ago. Apparently the first Bioshock managed to stay uncracked for ten days, and the sales really were better for it.

Modifié par Erszebeth, 20 février 2011 - 08:06 .

[Raygereio]

Erszebeth wrote...
The purpose of DRM is to postpone the cracking for as long as they can. Pirates aren't very patient people, and are prone to buy the game if they can't get a cracked version in the first week of release, or so I remember reading in a fairly serious analysis on PC DRM a while ago. Apparently the first Bioshock managed to stay uncracked for ten days, and the sales really were better for it.

No. That is the intended purpose of DRM, true. However the miscalculation that goes into this equation is the concept that people that pirate videogames are people that buy videogames. There are people that pirate (yarr) games who download it as a demo, or want to simply play his or her bought game without the disc or the other hassles of DRM. This group will still buy the game.
But the other group is the group that either due to money reasons, or because just they just refuse to buy things in general will not get the game. Ever. They'll wait. Heck, usually they won't have to wait that long as games get leaked allowing crackers to work on it before release.

BioShock got good sales because it was the spiritual successor of SystemShock (it sucked badly at being that, but that's besides the point) and thus drew in legions of fanboys.
A better example would be Assassin's Creed 2. The DRM system itself was cracked even before release, but because it wasn't just a single check, but millions of checks (AC2 phones home every time you open a door, use a lever, etc) it still took a month before there was a fully working crack available. And yet AC2 sales showed no significant improvement.

[AlanC9]

The thing is, you've got to have a baseline assumption for how AC2 would have sold without the new DRM to know what the effect of the DRM was. Do we actually know that the AC2 DRM is considered to have failed by the developers?

[Raygereio]

AlanC9 wrote...
The thing is, you've got to have a baseline assumption for how AC2 would have sold without the new DRM to know what the effect of the DRM was. Do we actually know that the AC2 DRM is considered to have failed by the developers?

True; the lack of a baseline as well the inabillity to get actual numbers piracy hinders any statistical study on this. Anyone that says they have real numbers on how much a game is pirated is pulling them out of their behinds as P2P technology makes this impossible. All one can go for is common sense and basic psychology.

As for the succes of AC2's DRM. It was compared to AC1 and it sold about as well as that. Naturally though Ubisoft claimed that the DRM was succesfull, but that's corporate culture for you; never admit you're wrong and when a project is failing miserably just keep on wasting money on it because anything is better then admitting defeat.
Heck, they' even were claiming that it was the best sytem ever, gave a wonderfull backmassage and even cured cancer when it became obvious that AC2's DRM caused horrible lag and instability issues.

Edit;  I did some more google'ign and I got mixed reports. One claiming AC2 sold up to 40% better then AC1 and others claiming a mere 10% increase. Funny that. I really wish those numbers from IGN and other blogs came with more details as to platforms, sources, etc.

Modifié par Raygereio, 20 février 2011 - 09:46 .

[Erszebeth]

Given the fact that AC2 PC was released MONTHS after the ps3 and 360 version (and with crappy DRM to boot), I think the numbers might be a little skewed when it come to piracy of that title. I may be a PC kind of gal, but I know I bought my AC2 on ps3 on release, thank you very much.

And as successful as AC2 DRM might have been, it doesn't look as if it will be implemented on AC brotherhood (steam). It sure wasn't on RUSE.

Modifié par Erszebeth, 20 février 2011 - 10:02 .

[tdawg7669]

So how is this going to work? I am fine with them phoning home every few days/weeks/months whatever. Lets say I get the game to start, they do their check and everything is working. Then I lose my internet connection for a second. Will the game turn off? If thats the case Ill just stick to the 360 version.

[Eurypterid]

tdawg7669 wrote...

So how is this going to work? I am fine with them phoning home every few days/weeks/months whatever. Lets say I get the game to start, they do their check and everything is working. Then I lose my internet connection for a second. Will the game turn off? If thats the case Ill just stick to the 360 version.

The Ubisoft style DRM (i.e. always having to be connected) was never on the table for DA2. So no, the game will not turn off if you lose connection.

[daverian]

I'm unfortunately going to have to cancel my pre-order. I have dialup at my house, which an older computer is attached to for the family to use. My gaming rig is multiple rooms away and has no modem in it. Sure, modems don't cost that much, and I guess I could drag a wire across my house for the random Internet checks the game does, but why should I have to do this if I legitimately bought a copy? Why should I have this inconvenience?

The answer is, I shouldn't. I am therefore canceling my preorder. This will be the first Bioware game in a long time that I haven't bought. I'll change my mind when I'm reimbursed for the modem and phone line I have to purchase along with the time to install it all.

This really sucks because DA:O was amazing, and DA2 looks fantastic as well!  I preordered this within a few days of it being on Amazon, WAY before the signature edition stuff was announced. Now, after waiting this long, and being this close, gonna have to cancel...

Modifié par daverian, 21 février 2011 - 06:46 .

[Phoenixblight]

daverian wrote...

I'm unfortunately going to have to cancel my pre-order. I have dialup at my house, which an older computer is attached to for the family to use. My gaming rig is multiple rooms away and has no modem in it. Sure, modems don't cost that much, and I guess I could drag a wire across my house for the random Internet checks the game does, but why should I have to do this if I legitimately bought a copy? Why should I have this inconvenience?

The answer is, I shouldn't. I am therefore canceling my preorder. This will be the first Bioware game in a long time that I haven't bought. I'll change my mind when I'm reimbursed for the modem and phone line I have to purchase along with the time to install it all.

This really sucks because DA:O was amazing, and DA2 looks fantastic as well!  I preordered this within a few days of it being on Amazon, WAY before the signature edition stuff was announced. Now, after waiting this long, and being this close, gonna have to cancel...

How did you play DAO with dial up it did the same exact thing and more so because it had to validate the dlc everytime you loaded up? Not trying to be mean, I am curious. 

[Lennonkun]

daverian wrote...

I'm unfortunately going to have to cancel my pre-order. I have dialup at my house, which an older computer is attached to for the family to use. My gaming rig is multiple rooms away and has no modem in it. Sure, modems don't cost that much, and I guess I could drag a wire across my house for the random Internet checks the game does, but why should I have to do this if I legitimately bought a copy? Why should I have this inconvenience?

The answer is, I shouldn't. I am therefore canceling my preorder. This will be the first Bioware game in a long time that I haven't bought. I'll change my mind when I'm reimbursed for the modem and phone line I have to purchase along with the time to install it all.

This really sucks because DA:O was amazing, and DA2 looks fantastic as well!  I preordered this within a few days of it being on Amazon, WAY before the signature edition stuff was announced. Now, after waiting this long, and being this close, gonna have to cancel...

There are other options. As much as using a cracked exe is looked down upon, if you purchased the game yourself, I see no fault in doing such a thing to make what you purchased playable, breach of EULA or not.