663 réponses à ce sujet

[Connect]

In Exile wrote...

If you needed an activation, I would bet the EULA would rather say:

Intenet activation and acceptance of EULA required to play and to acces
bonus content (if any) and online features and/or services.

From the DA2 EULA, we have:

Technical Protection Measures. This Software uses EA Activation
content protection technology. An EA Account, including the acceptance
of EA’s online Terms of Service and Privacy Policy (available at
www.ea.com), and an Internet connection are required to authenticate
the Software and verify your license upon the initial launch of the
Software on any unique machine (“Authenticate” or “Authentication”).
The serial code provided with this Software will be verified during
Authentication. Authentication is limited to one EA Account per serial
code. Accordingly, this Software is not transferable once Authenticated.
EA reserves the right to validate your license through subsequent online
Authentication. While there is no limit on the total number of machines
on which the Software can be Authenticated, you may launch and
access the Software on no more than five (5) unique machines in any
rolling 24-hour period. If you disable or otherwise tamper with the
technical protection measures, the Software may not function properly
and you will have materially breached this License.

The very first line of the quote from the EULA says "EA activation content protection technology". So it is indeed activation. A thin me and many other can't stand since you are at the mercy of their servers, which have failed on numerous occasions. Not to mention you have no idea what will happen to your purchase in the future, since they have no obligation (also clearly stated in the EULA) to provide support (meaning patch out the DRM).

What baffles me is that they have used only disc checks in Mass Effect 2 and Origins. Why couldn't they have done the same to the rest of the games?

[sevalaricgirl]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Wow, I'm not going to like this if I have to be connected to the internet to play the game since I play at work, when I have weekend shifts (engineering coverage) on my alienware m11x and I don't have internet access. That means I won't be able to play the game at work at all. If Bioware did that then it's pretty stupid. I can see needing one to activate the game and to download the DLC, but not to play the game.

Shouldn't you be, I don't know, WORKING?!

Sounds like a sweet gig to me.  Why not just take along a different game and play that instead?

Engineering coverage on weekends means that you are available to answer questions and why would I take a different game.  I take the game that I am playing at the time.  EA needs to change this policy if that is what they are entailing.

[ErichHartmann]

DRM doesn't prevent piracy. Last year Blizzard crowed their new Battle.net would stop pirates yet SCII was one of the top PC games to be illegally distributed.

[David Gaider]

Connect wrote...
As you have seen from the other topic, BioWare is starting to censor us and mock us for discussing about their apocalyptic DRM scheme which will be used in Dragon Age II.

We're actually fine with someone discussing it, so long as the conversation is kept from descending into pointless flaming and discussions of piracy are avoided. If you want to do that, feel free to do it elsewhere-- some people like to pretend that it's the content of their posts that gets them locked/banned, as opposed to how they go about discussing things. Believe it or not, you have no inherent right here to start fights.

As for being mocked, I suppose I could point out that using words like "apocalyptic" is a bit dramatic. Does that count?

As for everyone else, if you have nothing to contribute to a discussion other than "inb4lock" and calling someone a troll, than I suggest you keep it to yourself.

I have nothing to add about DRM, as it's not a decision I'm involved with. So I'll leave you to it. Play nice.

Modifié par David Gaider, 26 janvier 2011 - 03:29 .

[Saibh]

generalkorrd wrote...

I love how you complainers say how it is "totally unacceptable" and continue to whine and cry. What are ya gonna do, not buy the game? If you're not going to buy it, why are you here? quitcher****in and grow a pair already, my 2 year old girl whines less than you people.

If it's inconveniencing customers, why shouldn't you complain? I mean, if you loved everything there is to the game, but, because of these requirements, cannot play, what good is there to not buying it out of spite?

You don't see internet requirements to watch movies, do you? And you own those, and a lot of money was spent to make and distribute them. Hundreds of thousands of dollars are lost by pirates, and, yet, no internet connection is required to watch your movie.

I'm not against anti-piracy protections, but there's a point where you're only hurting the people who legitimately use your products. The answer to that isn't to pirate, but it's definitely not to shut up and hope something changes.

Modifié par Saibh, 26 janvier 2011 - 03:31 .

[PsychoBlonde]

TRSniper4 wrote...

My only concern with online activation is this:

What happens in the year 2021 when I want to play this game? Will EA still have their online activation servers up? If not, how will I install this game on my new computer of the future? For those of us who enjoy playing old games, this is a legitimate concern.

Will your machine in 2021 still be capable of running 10 year old games?  I threw out almost all of my old games because my computer can't run them any more--the games can't even RECOGNIZE the hardware I have now.

My only beef with DRM is that it doesn't actually work to stop pirates.  Complaining about hypothetical future inconveniences doesn't really add anything useful.

[In Exile]

Connect wrote...
The very first line of the quote from the EULA says "EA activation content protection technology". So it is indeed activation.

But we know this already - it was very obvious from the EULA that you need to authenticate at least once online. What is at issue is if you need a persistent online connection.

A thin me and many other can't stand since you are at the mercy of their servers, which have failed on numerous occasions. Not to mention you have no idea what will happen to your purchase in the future, since they have no obligation (also clearly stated in the EULA) to provide support (meaning patch out the DRM).

As I said in the other thread: using the EULA to try to reduce liability =! customer care. Which is not to say EA would care, but trying to hedge your bet on liability is not the same thing.

What baffles me is that they have used only disc checks in Mass Effect 2 and Origins. Why couldn't they have done the same to the rest of the games?

As someone pointed out, potentially because of the fact ME2 was one of the top 5 most pirated games of 2010. That would make EA stand up and take notice re: DRM.

[Saibh]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Will your machine in 2021 still be capable of running 10 year old games?  I threw out almost all of my old games because my computer can't run them any more--the games can't even RECOGNIZE the hardware I have now.

My only beef with DRM is that it doesn't actually work to stop pirates.  Complaining about hypothetical future inconveniences doesn't really add anything useful.

Hm? I can play the old BG's on my system. There will always be software allowing you to. Maybe not made by Windows or Mac, but there, nonetheless.

[Slayer299]

Didn't I see almost this exact thread a few days ago?

[Malanek]

Needing to be online just introduces another set of things that can go wrong. Your modem could be faulty, your isp could be down, the ea/bioware server could be down or overloaded. Having it is not the end of the world but it can be an inconveniance.

[generalkorrd]

Saibh wrote...

generalkorrd wrote...

I love how you complainers say how it is "totally unacceptable" and continue to whine and cry. What are ya gonna do, not buy the game? If you're not going to buy it, why are you here? quitcher****in and grow a pair already, my 2 year old girl whines less than you people.

If it's inconveniencing customers, why shouldn't you complain? I mean, if you loved everything there is to the game, but, because of these requirements, cannot play, what good is there to not buying it?

I mean, you don't see internet requirements to watch movies, do you? And you own those, and a lot of money was spent to make and distrubute them. Hundreds of thousands of dollars are lost by pirates, and, yet, no internet connection is required to watch your movie.

If you cannot play the game due to needing an internet connection, how are you posting on this forum at all? You don't own movies the same  way you don't own games, you own a license to play it in your home, and not for public viewing, etc. etc. Read the FBI warning sometime. Don't worry, I am sure that THEY are working on some kind of DRM for movies as well, I mean Bluray already accesses the interwebz for updates, it wont be too hard to bring that tech forward a bit more.

[PsychoBlonde]

sevalaricgirl wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

sevalaricgirl wrote...

Wow, I'm not going to like this if I have to be connected to the internet to play the game since I play at work, when I have weekend shifts (engineering coverage) on my alienware m11x and I don't have internet access. That means I won't be able to play the game at work at all. If Bioware did that then it's pretty stupid. I can see needing one to activate the game and to download the DLC, but not to play the game.

Shouldn't you be, I don't know, WORKING?!

Sounds like a sweet gig to me.  Why not just take along a different game and play that instead?

Engineering coverage on weekends means that you are available to answer questions and why would I take a different game.  I take the game that I am playing at the time.  EA needs to change this policy if that is what they are entailing.

I know what it means.  My housemate takes his computer to work with him sometimes to play WoW or Fallout 3 when he's doing an upgrade or something else that means clicking a few buttons and then waiting an hour and a half while a ton of stuff downloads/updates.  But "I won't be able to do what I usually do" is not a sufficient reason for someone else to modify their behavior.  Why should EA give a crap about YOUR habits specifically?  Answer: they don't, unless a large portion of their customer base shares those habits.

They have available to them tons of info on how many copies of Origins were sold, how many people activated and used DLC, how many people created accounts, etc. I would not be surprised if the number of people who activated their free DLC approached 95% of the user base.  (I don't know that's the case, I just wouldn't be surprised).  If that is the case, you're FAR in the minority, then, so your point is not going to register on anyone.

[Warkittens]

I still think a couple commas might help:

INTERNET CONNECTION AND ACCEPTANCE OF END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT REQUIRED TO PLAY, AND TO ACCESS BONUS CONTENT (IF ANY), AND ONLINE FEATURES AND/OR SERVICES.

(found here: http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas)

Modifié par Warkittens, 26 janvier 2011 - 03:43 .

[Connect]

David Gaider wrote...

Connect wrote...
As you have seen from the other topic, BioWare is starting to censor us and mock us for discussing about their apocalyptic DRM scheme which will be used in Dragon Age II.

We're actually fine with someone discussing it, so long as the conversation is kept from descending into pointless flaming and discussions of piracy are avoided. I have nothing to add about DRM, as it's not a decision I'm involved with. So I'll leave you to it. Play nice.

First of all, thanks for your reply. What I meant by mocking was that an official comes in and posts just to lock a thread, instead of talking to us and giving us details about the DRM. I understand that you are not directly involved, but someone should come and talk to us and take our concerns back to EA and fight for us. I bought 2 copies of Mass Effect 2 for the PC just because it only needed the disc check. Take this to EA and let them know how being friendly towards your paying customers will get them benefits on the long run. Now I have cancelled one of my Signature Edition pre-orders and if it indeed turns out that you need internet authentication for the BASE game (not the DLCs), then I will cancel my other remaining order too.

And by the way, 3 friends I've talked to in the last few days have also cancelled their pre-orders after learning about the DRM. EA should take note: offline DRM = happy customers ; online authentication = trouble, lost sales.

Having said that, I expect EA to get their act together for the DRM in Mass Effect 3 and put disc checks again. It's not like online authentications prevent illegal copies from appearing. They only inconvenience paying customers, since it's US who have to deal with them.

[PsychoBlonde]

Saibh wrote...

Hm? I can play the old BG's on my system. There will always be software allowing you to. Maybe not made by Windows or Mac, but there, nonetheless.

Heh, yeah, that's what I need on my system--buggy unstable third-party freeware ports.  Ugh.  No nostalgia is worth that.

[Shadelon]

PsychoBlonde wrote...

TRSniper4 wrote...

My only concern with online activation is this:

What happens in the year 2021 when I want to play this game? Will EA still have their online activation servers up? If not, how will I install this game on my new computer of the future? For those of us who enjoy playing old games, this is a legitimate concern.

Will your machine in 2021 still be capable of running 10 year old games?  I threw out almost all of my old games because my computer can't run them any more--the games can't even RECOGNIZE the hardware I have now.

My only beef with DRM is that it doesn't actually work to stop pirates.  Complaining about hypothetical future inconveniences doesn't really add anything useful.

Which brings us to the very problem with PC gaming and why I will stick with consoles....the freaking PC hardware changes too damn much, it's ridiculous. Console's are just a hell of alot easier for me, not to mention cheaper in the long run. 

I buy a game for PS3 I KNOW immediately it will run. I buy a game for PC, I have to go through all this technical BS to answer the ultimate question: WILL IT FREAKING RUN? If it don't run, got to spend more money to upgrade the computer. 

Then with all the hardware changes, the older games stop working. At least I know my PS3 will always run those old PS1 games, even if I mostly play newer PS3 games nowaday. And my PS3 at least still runs PS2 games, also. But again I play more PS3 games, so I could care less if my PS3 goes out and I have to buy a slim, losing the PS2 backward compatibility.

No thank you, I can do without all the technical crap and the constant nagging question, "will my system run this game?" Saves me from this DRM BS too.

[bluewolv1970]

SO with this DRM and IF there is no tool set, is it even worth getting on the PC at all

[Saibh]

generalkorrd wrote...

If you cannot play the game due to needing an internet connection, how are you posting on this forum at all? You don't own movies the same  way you don't own games, you own a license to play it in your home, and not for public viewing, etc. etc. Read the FBI warning sometime. Don't worry, I am sure that THEY are working on some kind of DRM for movies as well, I mean Bluray already accesses the interwebz for updates, it wont be too hard to bring that tech forward a bit more.

I despise that inane, thoughtless argument.

Is it really that hard to imagine that someone might be using their apartment Wi-Fi, or their Ethernet jack is busted, or a library's computer, or a friend's internet connection, or cannot hook their console up to the internet?

Yes, I can play. But not all of us are so self-centered that we can't think of anyone else. Or maybe some of us fear the day we don't have internet, and then cannot play. Maybe I'll swear off internet on March 7th, and now will be unable to enjoy a game I'm really excited about.

What is the difference between buying and owning your game and your movie? Why is there a difference? Who decided they should have autocratic control over a product you purchased? Just because that's how it is doesn't mean it's fair. Once again, I have no problem with DRM. But movies don't inconvenience you once you buy them. Strict DRM does. And further more, it doesn't even help. Pirates aren't stopped. So the only thing they are doing is making it difficult for people who do buy their games and support their companies to enjoy their product.

[ErichHartmann]

Saibh wrote...

PsychoBlonde wrote...

Will your machine in 2021 still be capable of running 10 year old games?  I threw out almost all of my old games because my computer can't run them any more--the games can't even RECOGNIZE the hardware I have now.

My only beef with DRM is that it doesn't actually work to stop pirates.  Complaining about hypothetical future inconveniences doesn't really add anything useful.

Hm? I can play the old BG's on my system. There will always be software allowing you to. Maybe not made by Windows or Mac, but there, nonetheless.

In 2021 DA will most likely end up on www.gog.com/en/frontpage/

/ninja side post

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 26 janvier 2011 - 03:42 .

[Connect]

In Exile wrote...

As someone pointed out, potentially because of the fact ME2 was one of the top 5 most pirated games of 2010. That would make EA stand up and take notice re: DRM.

I'm going to give you a counter example. The Sims 3 was THE MOST pirated game of 2009. Not just in the top 5, but in first place. Yet they still only use disc checks for retail version of Sims products.

I have just checked the EULA for The Sims Medieval (upcoming Sims title) and it clearly says that it uses disc checks and not online activations.

If they can put a friendly DRM on a product that is much "bigger" in terms of desirability and popularity, why would they use online authentication for Dragon Age II? And what makes them think online authentications will prevent Dragon Age II from reaching the "top 5"?

[generalkorrd]

Connect wrote...

I bought 2 copies of Mass Effect 2 for the PC just because it only needed the disc check.

That is just.... wierd. I have a feeling this is where you lose a lot of creditability with people. This, combined with the insistent whining you keep doing makes people not want to support you so much.

[Soul Cool]

Connect wrote...
If they can put a friendly DRM on a product that is much "bigger" in terms of desirability and popularity, why would they use online authentication for Dragon Age II? And what makes them think online authentications will prevent Dragon Age II from reaching the "top 5"?

"Oh, well, we're inevitably doomed to failure, we should just give up."

Y'know, I think I've heard this somewhere before.

[slimgrin]

ErichHartmann wrote...

DRM doesn't prevent piracy. Last year Blizzard crowed their new Battle.net would stop pirates yet SCII was one of the top PC games to be illegally distributed.

I bought SC2 on a whim. Didn't read the box, so I didn't understand the DRM involved. Had I known, I wouldn't have bought it. I'm absolutely 100% against any form of periodic online activation. But that was my fault for being hasty.

I'll say it again: the more transparent companies are about this subject, the better. Simply treat your customers with enough respect to let them know what they are getting into. This is just my take on DRM in general; I have no idea what Bioware has confirmed for DA2.

In the end, of course, DRM is a farce, and stops nobody from pirating games. Publishers know this, gamers know it too. But then, I don't think DRM is solely meant to be an anti-piracy method.   

Modifié par slimgrin, 26 janvier 2011 - 03:55 .

[David Gaider]

Connect wrote...
First of all, thanks for your reply. What I meant by mocking was that an official comes in and posts just to lock a thread, instead of talking to us and giving us details about the DRM. I understand that you are not directly involved, but someone should come and talk to us and take our concerns back to EA and fight for us.

First off, Stan is no more involved with DRM than I am. He isn't going to give details because he doesn't have them. He will, however, lock down a thread where people are breaking the rules. I appreciate your concern, but if you believe breaking out the pitchforks will lead either to a sensible discussion or have us rush to provide details regarding a corporate decision, you're mistaken. These forums are primarily for discussing things with your fellow posters, not for demanding responses from developers.

Asking for it nicely might get you more information-- provided we possess the details you're looking for, and that's information we're at liberty to discuss. Failing that, feel free to PM your community coordinator Victor Wachter. Perhaps he can help you. That's all I can really suggest.

Peace.

[Erode_The_Soul]

generalkorrd wrote...

I love how you complainers say how
it is "totally unacceptable" and continue to whine and cry. What are ya
gonna do, not buy the game? If you're not going to buy it, why are you
here? quitcher****in and grow a pair already, my 2 year old girl whines
less than you people.

Honestly, if the online authentication is
required for each and every time the game is powered up, then I can wait for it to be patched out. I don't want to, as I'm getting more and more excited about the game, but I've become less willing to put up with DRM schemes I dislike thanks to a couple iterations of it that completely screwed me over.

In regards to why I'm here, it's because I want to be. And I'll remain here as long as that's the case.

Modifié par Erode_The_Soul, 26 janvier 2011 - 03:47 .