663 réponses à ce sujet

[Atakuma]

It reads to me like it's a one time thing for authentication and then for DLC. I can see how it could be interpreted differently since it's not exactly crystal clear, but then again these things rarely are.

[Soul Cool]

Atakuma wrote...

It reads to me like it's a one time thing for authentication and then for DLC. I can see how it could be interpreted differently since it's not exactly crystal clear, but then again these things rarely are.

One can but wish for clear legalspeak, eh?

[generalkorrd]

Soul Cool wrote...

One can but wish for clear legalspeak, eh?

The person who invents that will never have to work again!

[ErichHartmann]

Soul Cool wrote...


When does it become okay to say "Okay, since failure is inevitable, we should just stop trying"? Should I stop opposing crime because crime is going to happen? Should I stop living because I am inevitably going to die?

This thread is about DRM on PC games, not the meaning of life. 

Modifié par ErichHartmann, 26 janvier 2011 - 04:19 .

[DTKT]

Pretty sure you had to be connected to the EA servers in order to play DAO DLC content.

Not sure what the difference is between what everyone is yelling about and the last iteration...

i.e: This just sounds like a "Cerberus" Network for DAII.

Modifié par DTKT, 26 janvier 2011 - 04:27 .

[Soul Cool]

ErichHartmann wrote...
This thread is about DRM on PC games, not the meaning of life. 

And? If taken to its conclusion, the result of the argument you are making is that people should give way in face of the seemingly inevitable.

The thought behind that sort of attitude scares me.

[AlanC9]

Soul Cool wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...
This thread is about DRM on PC games, not the meaning of life. 

And? If taken to its conclusion, the result of the argument you are making is that people should give way in face of the seemingly inevitable.

The thought behind that sort of attitude scares me.

Well, your overblown rhetoric kinda scares me. Can we call it even?

[slimgrin]

Well, at the very least, they need to make this info on DRM crystal clear before release, and post it on the site.

[DTKT]

AlanC9 wrote...

Soul Cool wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...
This thread is about DRM on PC games, not the meaning of life. 

And? If taken to its conclusion, the result of the argument you are making is that people should give way in face of the seemingly inevitable.

The thought behind that sort of attitude scares me.

Well, your overblown rhetoric kinda scares me. Can we call it even?

Ah!

Well said, I iwsh I could give you reputation.

[transcendent12]

Benefits of no DRM:
Will work forever- retro gamers will be happy.
People who don't have constant access to internet will be happy.
Other various legitimate users won't suffer from DRM

Advantages of DRM.
6 year olds can't pirate the game by copying the CD and giving it to a friend. (But it'll get cracked by an actual group of scene release pirates anyway. Simply put, NO DRM/program security has EVER worked.

Modifié par transcendent12, 26 janvier 2011 - 04:33 .

[Eurypterid]

DTKT wrote...

Pretty sure you had to be connected to the EA servers in order to play DAO DLC content.

No, you didn't. You only had to authorize it once. After that you could play it off-line for good if you wanted.

DTKT wrote...

Not sure what the difference is between what everyone is yelling about and the last iteration...

There appears, from the EULA, to be some significant differences. But I'm personally waiting to hear details more before judging.

Modifié par Eurypterid, 26 janvier 2011 - 04:33 .

[stephen1493]

Ok, does this apply to console user's or is this just a stupid pc problem? I don't get half this lingo

[Connect]

Soul Cool wrote...
 the result of the argument you are making is that people should give way in face of the seemingly inevitable.

The thought behind that sort of attitude scares me.

That works both ways. The fact that people will just stand doing nothing while publishers add more and more aggressive DRM, thinking "we can't do anything, it's inevitable" is scaring ME.

Next thing you know you will have to provide urinal samples and be held at gunpoint if you want to play.

[DTKT]

Eurypterid wrote...

DTKT wrote...

Pretty sure you had to be connected to the EA servers in order to play DAO DLC content.

No, you didn't. You only had to authorize it once. After that you could play it off-line for good if you wanted.

DTKT wrote...

Not sure what the difference is between what everyone is yelling about and the last iteration...

There appears, from the EULA, to be some significant differences. But I'm personally waiting to hear details more before judging.

So, simply put, everyone is panicking over an "interpretation" of legalspeak?

[generalkorrd]

DTKT wrote...

So, simply put, everyone is panicking over an "interpretation" of legalspeak?

DingDingDing, tell him what he's won!!!!!!!

[LaztRezort]

slimgrin wrote...

Well, at the very least, they need to make this info on DRM crystal clear before release, and post it on the site.

Yes.  Could this actually be the one thing here everyone could agree on? 

I like it when game reviews mention troublesome DRM (I specifically did not purchase the new Assassins Creed because this was mentioned in a review).  It seems we only hear about the extremes of DRM (the so-called "Draconian"), but one person's Draconian is apparently another's "who cares."

It would be nice if all game publishers, or game reviewers, made this information available in a clear manner.  Obviously the EULA fails to clarify (at least, in this case), and has now become a sort of puzzle mini-game of where to place the commas to make it make sense.

[Soul Cool]

AlanC9 wrote...
Well, your overblown rhetoric kinda scares me. Can we call it even?

Of course it's absurd. That's what I was shooting for. =P


Should I have thrown something in about "This is my serious face" to make it more obvious?

Modifié par Soul Cool, 26 janvier 2011 - 04:43 .

[darrylzero]

Connect wrote...

Soul Cool wrote...
 the result of the argument you are making is that people should give way in face of the seemingly inevitable.

The thought behind that sort of attitude scares me.

That works both ways. The fact that people will just stand doing nothing while publishers add more and more aggressive DRM, thinking "we can't do anything, it's inevitable" is scaring ME.

Next thing you know you will have to provide urinal samples and be held at gunpoint if you want to play.

Right or, "this attempt to police a given problem isn't working and is creating negative externalities, but lets just keep at it" (shades of prohibition).  I don't know enough about DRM to really have an opinion here, but I think that being sensitive to what doesn't
work is important. 

[DTKT]

darrylzero wrote...

Connect wrote...

Soul Cool wrote...
 the result of the argument you are making is that people should give way in face of the seemingly inevitable.

The thought behind that sort of attitude scares me.

That works both ways. The fact that people will just stand doing nothing while publishers add more and more aggressive DRM, thinking "we can't do anything, it's inevitable" is scaring ME.

Next thing you know you will have to provide urinal samples and be held at gunpoint if you want to play.

Right or, "this attempt to police a given problem isn't working and is creating negative externalities, but lets just keep at it" (shades of prohibition).  I don't know enough about DRM to really have an opinion here, but I think that being sensitive to what doesn't
work is important. 

Urinal samples and guns? Jesus, what future are you thinking of!

Regarding DAII, how does it work on 360? Can you play the game without a gamertag? Is DLC tied to that console or to the gamertag?

[craigdolphin]

generalkorrd wrote...

Connect wrote...

I bought 2 copies of Mass Effect 2 for the PC just because it only needed the disc check.

That is just.... wierd. I have a feeling this is where you lose a lot of creditability with people. This, combined with the insistent whining you keep doing makes people not want to support you so much.

I bought two copies too. Would not have bought either one if it had used the same DRM as ME1. One copy was for me, one for my wife. What's so weird about that?

David Gaider wrote...
First off, Stan is no more involved with DRM than I am. He isn't going
to give details because he doesn't have them. He will, however, lock
down a thread where people are breaking the rules. I appreciate your
concern, but if you believe breaking out the pitchforks will lead either
to a sensible discussion or have us rush to provide details regarding a
corporate decision, you're mistaken. These forums are primarily for
discussing things with your fellow posters, not for demanding responses
from developers.

Asking for it nicely might get you more
information-- provided we possess the details you're looking for, and
that's information we're at liberty to discuss. Failing that, feel free
to PM your community coordinator Victor Wachter. Perhaps he can help
you. That's all I can really suggest.

Peace.

David, I have no bones to pick with you personally. However, I would like to note that I have tried both those approaches the day after the system spec announcement  (albeit I PM'ed Chris Priestly, not Victor), without a single response from any developer either publicly or provately.

In my questions on the system specs thread, and in the PM, I asked either for details of the DRM, or for some idea as to when we might expect to hear those details. No response. Nada. And all this after being told during previous releases that DRM information would be released along with 'the rest of the systtem specifications'. Bioware is hardly being consistent with their own past position, nor are they being fair to their customers who are being asked to order the product without knowledge of the terms and conditions.

Yes, the fans who are upset over the issue sometimes lose their rag. But if we do so out
of mounting frustration with Bioware's corporate policy of silence and
stubborn refusal to engage with us, then frankly, those incidents are partly
to blame on Bioware as well. Just sayin.

Bioware is currently demonstrating a serious lack of corporate good faith with their customers. That's my honest  opinion. But I do actually feel bad for CP etc having to sit here and deal with the seething anger that is building once again. I would hate to have his job.

All of which says nothing about the particular DRM implementation for DA2. For myself, the shameful lack of clarification by Bioware on the subject makes it extremely hard to make an informed purchase decision.

From my wild-assed-guesses based on the vaguely worded EULA, it seems like it's /maybe/ not quite as bad as the ME1 DRM in many of the respects that are important to me. But the devil is in the details. And frankly if you're stuck with dialup or no connection, or in the military, or on a plane, it likely sucks worse than a sucky thing.

I realize Bioware could care less if I cancel my preordered copies or not (drop in the bucket right?). But it matters to me. And I hope Bioware someday cares about its customers again. Right now it certainly doesn't feel that way. 

[TwelveV]

I lost 2 optical drives to SecuROM. It makes me wary (and I won't even purchase a game with SecuROM in it on principal) when DRM is mentioned on PC games. I don't buy as many as I used to, mainly because of DRM. Those of us who don't pirate are lumped into the group with the few that do.

I figured (hoped may be a better word) that this game would have the same DRM as DAO and ME2. Seems like I thought wrong.

As others have asked: Can we please be informed of the nature of the DRM so we can make informed decisions as consumers?

Whether or not DRM works, or how it affects us, isn't the issue here, but each individual should be given the opportunity to make an informed decision on whether or not this is ok to them. It's EA/Bioware's responsibility to provide us with the information we need to make that decision.

Modifié par TwelveV, 26 janvier 2011 - 05:43 .

[In Exile]

Connect wrote...
That works both ways. The fact that people will just stand doing nothing while publishers add more and more aggressive DRM, thinking "we can't do anything, it's inevitable" is scaring ME.

Next thing you know you will have to provide urinal samples and be held at gunpoint if you want to play.

Is it too much to ask that you stop frothing at the mouth? We already have cases of major companies backing down on DRM because of consumer outcry. We saw this following Spore and ME1 with EA in particular. Now they're trying to claim down again - if they try to push too hard, then consumers will fight back.

If you really want to fight the good fight, avoiding the tin-foil comparison will go a long way.

LaztRezort wrote...
It would be nice if all game publishers,
or game reviewers, made this information available in a clear manner. 
Obviously the EULA fails to clarify (at least, in this case), and has
now become a sort of puzzle mini-game of where to place the commas to
make it make sense.

Technically speaking, if the EULA is poorly writen such that a reasonable person wouldn't be expected to be clear on what precisely it says in any section, that dramatically undermines how enforceable a violation of the EULA would be. 

Again, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.. but based on my understand of what makes a contract enforceable, a lack of clarity is a dramatic issue.

[chunkyman]

Dumb question alert. What is a DRM and why is it a problem?