663 réponses à ce sujet

[Jestina]

All the DRM stuff really does is hurt the consumer buying the games legally. Pirates always find a way to rip the security junk off eventually.



It's like passing gun laws. You just make it difficult for law abiding people, but it doesn't do anything to criminals cause they usually don't get them legally anyways.

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
I'm actually somewhat sympathetic of the "slip it under the radar" argument. Once people have made a pre-order I think it wouldn't be a stretch to say that they are more likely to tollerate bad news than to go and cancel that pre-order.

That is to say, once they have you somewhat commited you are more likely to stick with that commitment in the face of bad news than if you would be to still buy the game in the face of bad news had you not made the innitial soft commitment.

I don't see how that matters.  Taking advantage of human nature is just good sense on EA's part.

What matters is that each individual has the option of cancelling his pre-order.  Whether any one in particular actually does cancel it doesn't matter.  He could, and thus he's been given the opportunity to make an informed decision.

I think you attribute too much credit to the notion of free will. And sounded much more ominous and doom saying than I intended it to be...

[AlanC9]

BTCentral wrote...

ME2 has the same 5 machine per 24 hour limit, yet can be played completely offline.

Only the digital download edition says that -- the disc edition requires the disc.

Maybe this means that EA wants a single scheme? Makes sense. Anyone know what the ME2 DD edition does for DRM?

[AlanC9]

Karsciyin wrote...
 In my country (New Zealand) you pay for a certain amount per month, and the price is influenced by your download speed. After you've used up your limited amount, you might be swtched to 'dial-up' speeds (surcharges apply), you might have a huge surcharge for every 1GB/100MB/etc you consume over the limit, rounding up... or a moderate in-between - a medium surcharge for heavily reduced (but still not dial-up) speeds.

This is why I am concerned about the possibility of needed to be constantly connected to the internet, and games that occasionally 'ping' to check you are still connected. I will also never play online games like Runescape, WoW, Dragon Age: Legends or what have you simply because of the data caps here.

I'm still not quite following this. Those pings can't possibly be large enough to use up a measurable amount of your capacity. No way EA wants that much data coming in to their servers.

Modifié par AlanC9, 27 janvier 2011 - 07:23 .

[Fraevar]

AlanC9 wrote...

BTCentral wrote...

ME2 has the same 5 machine per 24 hour limit, yet can be played completely offline.

Only the digital download edition says that -- the disc edition requires the disc.

Maybe this means that EA wants a single scheme? Makes sense. Anyone know what the ME2 DD edition does for DRM?

Exactly the same as DAO DD: First-time authentication and 5 machines per 24 hour limit. Needs to be authenticated whenever you install/run it the first time.

[AlanC9]

Delerius_Jedi wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

BTCentral wrote...

ME2 has the same 5 machine per 24 hour limit, yet can be played completely offline.

Only the digital download edition says that -- the disc edition requires the disc.

Maybe this means that EA wants a single scheme? Makes sense. Anyone know what the ME2 DD edition does for DRM?

Exactly the same as DAO DD: First-time authentication and 5 machines per 24 hour limit. Needs to be authenticated whenever you install/run it the first time.

So they don't check in every launch , which I guess means that the 24-hour limit isn't really being enforced.

Sounds fine to me.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

I think you attribute too much credit to the notion of free will.

I'll grant that people often behave as if they don't have any. But here's why that doesn't matter:

Either they do actually have free will, despite appearances, and thus are wilfully choosing something I can't comprehend, or...

They don't have free will (or sufficiently advanced cognitive skills to use it), and thus aren't people at all.

Problem sorted.

[koshiee]

Greedy company is greedy

[AlanC9]

Wanting to be paid for your work is greedy?

[BENIICHAT]

If DRAGON AGE II want Internet connection all the time for play, it bad thing for me.

Because, I want My Game is  Completely My Game ,that can play it anywhere & anytime. and I don't want to buy Copyright version + Pirate version for can Play My Game whenever I want.

I have Hi-speed Internet and can connect all time.But, I think about  Future, when Bioware/EA don't support DA2 anymore (or something worst) .How can I  Play this Game ?  If I have  Copyright version. Because, I can't connect to server to play this game (even Dragon Age Origin too, Because I can't activated game). But Payer who buy or load Illegal version can play it !!! 




(Sorry for my English Skill)

Modifié par BENIICHAT, 27 janvier 2011 - 08:43 .

[RosaAquafire]

RangerTypeII wrote...

Any ligitimant paying customer should not be complaning about ways to keep piriting software as difficult as possible. it is a majur problem espiciall in China if ia was the developer I would require on line connection and disk to compliment and complet the program Limiting theft is not a bad thing just think of it a a pat down when you fly

Funny, I'm against pat-downs, too.

[Fraevar]

AlanC9 wrote...

So they don't check in every launch , which I guess means that the 24-hour limit isn't really being enforced.

Sounds fine to me.

My guess would be that the EA server keeps track of hardware configurations.

[snackrat]

AlanC9 wrote...

Karsciyin wrote...
 In my country (New Zealand) you pay for a certain amount per month, and the price is influenced by your download speed. After you've used up your limited amount, you might be swtched to 'dial-up' speeds (surcharges apply), you might have a huge surcharge for every 1GB/100MB/etc you consume over the limit, rounding up... or a moderate in-between - a medium surcharge for heavily reduced (but still not dial-up) speeds.

This is why I am concerned about the possibility of needed to be constantly connected to the internet, and games that occasionally 'ping' to check you are still connected. I will also never play online games like Runescape, WoW, Dragon Age: Legends or what have you simply because of the data caps here.

I'm still not quite following this. Those pings can't possibly be large enough to use up a measurable amount of your capacity. No way EA wants that much data coming in to their servers.

Ahh, sorry, my mind was in a time-warp there. I was explaining why another user was thinking of Bioware 'using up' their internet.

The 'ping' concern refers to my post in the thread that was since locked down (my comment unanswered) about how my connection - like many in my country - is spotty and has a tendency to die without warning. If the game reguarly checks if I am still online, and my router borks, there's nothing I can do about it. I hope after authetication of the DLC, base game, and tying to my EA acc, all that's need is the disc...

Also I don't know what capacities you are used to, but I think the plan I am on right now is something like 10GB. We've been trying to switch to another priovider and hope to have 20GB per months soon, but CUSTOMER SERVICE SUCKS AND AUUGH I went off topic, okay I'm good now.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 27 janvier 2011 - 09:05 .

[Maria Caliban]

I'm rather happy I won't need the disk in the drive to play. Online authentication on first launch is fine by me.

[Anzer]

Karsciyin wrote...

I agree that the idea of EA paying for half our internet is silly, but fact of the matter is that very few countries actually have a monthly fee for unlimited internet as standard... while others may provide it, it is usually only the most expensive option. In my country (New Zealand) you pay for a certain amount per month, and the price is influenced by your download speed. After you've used up your limited amount, you might be swtched to 'dial-up' speeds (surcharges apply), you might have a huge surcharge for every 1GB/100MB/etc you consume over the limit, rounding up... or a moderate in-between - a medium surcharge for heavily reduced (but still not dial-up) speeds.

This is why I am concerned about the possibility of needed to be constantly connected to the internet, and games that occasionally 'ping' to check you are still connected. I will also never play online games like Runescape, WoW, Dragon Age: Legends or what have you simply because of the data caps here.

That is an unpleasant situation then. I hope for your and your fellow Kiwi's sakes, the DRM does not require constant internet connection.
The way I've read the EULA, it sounds like it is only required for the initial install. We'll know soon enough for certain though when the team provides an official response. I'll cross my fingers for you.

[snackrat]

Thanks!

Also: JUST NOTICED YOUR FIREFLY SIGNATURE.  Off-topic, but there it is.

The found a post with a link to the full DRM-whatsit, though it is hard to get past all the legalise it appears it will check each time I load up, rather than regular checks... here's to hoping.

On the note of DRM files though, I truly detest how the people writing these things feel compelled to type in all-caps with severely limited puncatuation. Perhaps they want to indicate that the cap'd text is important, but if it is all writing in caps as many - if not most - I have seen are, then it's not an intensifier at all, and just makes it nearly impossible to read.

...

......my brain hurts, trying.

[TheBabeLover]

Calm down people. It's Bioware. They know what they are doing. Are you 110% sure the DRM is working like you think. I don't think so. David said we will get an official confirmation soon. Wait until then. And if it's limited to only 5 computers, who cares. Who plays on 5 computers? As I said, Bioware have learned from their mistakes. They know what they are doing.



A shout out to Bioware: I LOVE your games. You are the best videogame company EVER. The thing for me in games is story and you nail it everytime. Sometimes (like ME2) the story isn't the best of the best. I still loved it, but in terms of story and how you tried to "connect" us with the character(s). You failed. But enough of that. The DRM will work fine. And stop being so ****ty towards Bioware. You love them and the games they make.



It's always the sam thing everytime they make a new game. You complain and when it comes out, you love it. Just like every other game they make. Thank you Bioware for the games and the experience you make!

[BTCentral]

AlanC9 wrote...

BTCentral wrote...

ME2 has the same 5 machine per 24 hour limit, yet can be played completely offline.

Only the digital download edition says that -- the disc edition requires the disc.

Maybe this means that EA wants a single scheme? Makes sense. Anyone know what the ME2 DD edition does for DRM?

Ah, OK. That makes sense.

I have the DDE edition of ME2 so that would explain why and as I said, the game can be played offline.

Now... it's been a while since I installed it. But if I recall correctly I believe it checked against the machine limit during setup and performed a one time authentication.

Edit: Missed a post when reading through the topic, looks like this was confirmed here.

If this is also the case for DA2 I would much prefer it, the disk check used with the retail DA:O Ultimate is just plain annoying. And yes... I know I could download the digital version via EADM by registering my serial, but it seems rather pointless to download the whole game again just to pass on a disk check.

Modifié par BTCentral, 27 janvier 2011 - 11:08 .

[MorseDenizen]

This is the first I have heard of the DRM so far, and I had assumed it would be the same as Dragon Age. My issue is that I dont have an internet connection at the moment having recently relocated back to England, I have preordered the game (signature edition) and I'm looking forward to playing it, can someone confirm if i will need to connect to the internet first time to actually play? As long as the internet isnt required every single time to play the gme I'm not really bothered, I never had much of a problem with ME1. Basically can someone provide factual specifics of how this DRM works cos all i see right now seems pretty vague and its a bit worrying...

[Aanna]

David Gaider wrote...


You misunderstand me. I never meant that DRM is an unimportant issue-- just that it's not vital for you to have it clarified right this second. You're not buying the game tomorrow, after all. That clarification will come soon enough.

Actually, Mr. Gaider, I have already bought the game -- the Signature Edition.  I'm reserving judgement on the DRM until I get more info, but don't you think that I deserved that kind of very basic info right along with, say, the system requirements?  Why should I have already bought the game and not be allowed to see the contract before I put up my money?


-Edit-  I know this really has nothing to do with your part of the project.  I just directed my comment to you because, well, you were nice enough to answer the thread

Modifié par Aanna, 27 janvier 2011 - 02:40 .

[BTCentral]

MorseDenizen wrote...

Basically can someone provide factual specifics of how this DRM works cos all i see right now seems pretty vague and its a bit worrying...

Only EA can do that, and they have not provided the details yet. It's a waiting game, for now.

[David Gaider]

Aanna wrote...
Actually, Mr. Gaider, I have already bought the game -- the Signature Edition.  I'm reserving judgement on the DRM until I get more info, but don't you think that I deserved that kind of very basic info right along with, say, the system requirements?  Why should I have already bought the game and not be allowed to see the contract before I put up my money?

Actually, you pre-ordered the game. It hasn't been released yet. And, yes, I do think you deserve that information-- which is why we released it along with the system requirements. What is being asked for, and what will be received, is clarification on what that means (since there are concerns on the interpretation).

[Connect]

AlanC9 wrote...

BTCentral wrote...

ME2 has the same 5 machine per 24 hour limit, yet can be played completely offline.

Only the digital download edition says that -- the disc edition requires the disc.

Maybe this means that EA wants a single scheme? Makes sense.

No, it doesn't make sense as long as they had 2 different schemes for each version (retail and download) of Dragon Age Origins and Mass Effect 2.

Plus they had the best DRM that I have seen so far: Battlefield Bad Company 2 asked the users during istall if they preffered the disc check or online authentication. I know it for sure because I have it. So this works best in my opinion. People who want to play without internet can do so, plus it guarantees that the game will still be playable in the future. Nice and simple

Now why couldn't they do the same with Dragon Age II? WHY?

[Connect]

David Gaider wrote...

Actually, you pre-ordered the game. It hasn't been released yet. And, yes, I do think you deserve that information-- which is why we released it along with the system requirements. What is being asked for, and what will be received, is clarification on what that means (since there are concerns on the interpretation).

Well, you are not really right here. The system specs contained absolutely no trace of DRM info whatsoever. And they were released before january 11 (the limit to order the Signature Edition), while the DRM info was discovered by me and other users who have combed the EULA. There was no official word on the DRM from either EA or BioWare.

Also, while your guys are asking around about the details of the DRM, it would be nice if they would pass along the info to EA that they should get their act together and know that the current DRM (internet required for the boxed version) is making them lose sales. Point them to the 2 DRM topics where people express their anger and dissatisfaction. Hopefully they will learn their lesson and get back to disc checks in Mass Effect 3 or at the very least make online activations optional (like what they did for Battlefield Bad Company 2), not mandatory.

[RaenImrahl]

David Gaider wrote...

Actually, you pre-ordered the game. It hasn't been released yet. And, yes, I do think you deserve that information-- which is why we released it along with the system requirements. What is being asked for, and what will be received, is clarification on what that means (since there are concerns on the interpretation).

I confess this is a bit of a head-scratcher for me.  I saw neither the system specs nor information on the DRM when I pre-ordered.  I saw the specs much later on the offical game website.  I still don't see anything on DRM, at least not at http://dragonage.bio...m/da2/info/faq/ . 

As a consumer, I was okay with that, for two reasons:  1) I assumed the information would be forthcoming, as the game was finalized, and 2) I pre-ordered through a vendor that will not penalize me for canceling.  On that basis, I suppose I can appreciate the distinction David makes here.  After all, I doubt most consumers really concern themselves with DRM-- we've all come to accept some sort of licensing for software. 

However, I believe if there is a significant change in how DRM will be implimented, then EA/Bioware has an obligation to outline that in clear terms so I, as a consumer, can continue making valid choices.  David says that's going to happen, so I am satisfied for now.

From a practical standpoint, by committing to buy the Signature Edition, which includes bonus DLC, I've already agreed to a a level of digital rights management that requires an active internet connection, so I am not too concerned. 

When I purchased DA:O this summer, I did so knowing I would probably be moving to a new city,  and that I would be without internet access for a while.  I made a consumer choice to go ahead and get the game anyway, and I am glad I did.

Another example of consumer choice-- David might appreciate this one:  I travel and listen to a lot of audiobooks.  I bought my old audio player because it was compatible with a service called audible.com.  That service uses a proprietary encoding to control DRM.  I bought, for example, The Stolen Throne, and enjoyed it.  But since then my player has died, and I've opted to listen to audio on my smartphone, which is not supported by audible.  So, I haven't purchased any more content, including The Calling.  I could have just as easily gotten a new player that would make it possible, but I made a different, financial, consumer choice in this area.

So far, nothing I've seen on in this thread leads me to belive that the game producers are actively seeking to thwart comsumer choice.  Should they make this supposedly-new DRM structure crystal clear-- yes.  And again, David has stated that will happen, and he implies it will happen before the ship date. If the new DRM implimentation is going to be too much of a hinderance, I'll consider canceling my pre-order.  That's the one choice we have as consumers.

I understand, from what I've read here, that many have a moral or ethical objection to the concept of a robust DRM.  I can respect your opinions, even if I find the comparisons with gun control or airport security a little thin.  I can also respect the need for content producers, be they individual authors or faceless corporations, to protect their product from piracey.  As Harlan Ellison once said, "If you reach into my pocket, you'll pull away six inches of bloody stump."
EA/Bioware seems to be mulling over a business decision, balancing their needs with the ease and utility of the consumer.  For me, and I think for a vast majority of game consumers who don't put alot of thought into these things, it will be the practical concerns which rule the day.

RI

EDIT:  Obviously, it's The Stolen Throne, not the Stone Throne. 

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 27 janvier 2011 - 05:01 .