35 réponses à ce sujet

[Gibb_Shepard]

I really can't decide whether or not i should kill flemeth.

Flemeth's motives are extremely vague. She gives extremely vague answers to your questions when confronting her.

I'm not even sure what the hell she is. She could be some Old God, keeping an eye on Fereldan. Or she could be some kind of ancient demon, whom wishes to hurt Fereldan in some way.

I'm clueless on what i should do. What did you guys do with Flemeth, and why? (Apart from experience points)

[Faelix_Majere]

If you interact with Leliana and raise your standing with her, she will tell the folklore story behind Flemeth. Which is somewhat disturbing.



Morrigan refers to this story too but doesn't really care, untill the Flemeths Grimoire reveals that part of the story she didn't believe in, is infact correct and will cost Morrigan her life.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

Well, my canon Warden killed Flemeth because she wanted to believe she could trust Morrigan. She ended up regretting it later in the game.



But Flemeth does save your life at Ostagar. You could believe you owe her. Or you could let her live and give the grimoire to Morrigan.



Flemeth and Morrigan are both deceptive and vague, so it's a bit frustrating. There's no way to verify Morrigan's claims that Flemeth means her harm, since that grimoire is conveniently in code.

[Face of Evil]

The REAL question you should be asking yourself is "should you slay Flemeth on Morrigan's behalf?" Do you believe what she says about the book recovered from the Circle Tower? Do you value Morrigan's role within your party?

I killed her, BTW, and I don't regret it.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 26 janvier 2011 - 11:07 .

[Gibb_Shepard]

It doesn't feel right putting Morrigan under a false sense of security, thinking she has significantly delayed her Mother's goal, when in actuality Flemeth is watching her, and can take her body at any time.



Also, the fact that when you decide to fight Flemeth, she says that she must "earn" what she takes, insinuating that she actually does plan to possess Morrigan.



I guess in the end it all depends on whether or not you care if Morrigan gets possessed. What happens in Witch Hunt when you spare Flemeth and lie to Morrigan? Does she find out, or is this part of the plot completely disregarded?



P.S. On the note of "owing" your life to Flemeth, i had a theory that she may actually be an "Old God" and the only reason she saved the Wardens was to end the Blight, before the darkspawn could come and taint her, turning her into an Archdemon. Just a random theory....

[Fylimar]

Since Flemeth is one of my favorite (non -Party) NPCs in the game, I spare her always (killed her once, felt bad and load a pre-fight save). Besides, I couldn't care less, what happens to her daugther, who is annoying to no end. I would happily swap Morrigan for Flemeth as Party-NSC.

Plus: I have the feeling, I owe her. And the thing with Morrigans Baby: my last game crashed shortly before the ending, so I could be wrong here, but I always thought, that Morrigan wanted that child, to possess it, like her mother planned to her. Anyway, neither Morrigan nor her mother are nice persons - so I guess, there is no easy decision.

[Ferretinabun]

Cannon playthrough - killed her, but only because I wanted to jump in the sack with Morrigan, and felt bad about it OOC.

Flemeth is definitely one of the most enigmatic characters in the game. Several pieces of evidence do paint her as a dangerous maleficar, but isn't Morrigan herself a lesson in slapping the label 'villian' on anyone who doesn't conform to your morality code?

Was delighted to find all the clues that suggest even if you kill Flemeth, she isn't properly dead. Expecting a big sequel comeback. Though I do worry how happy she'll be to see me.

[Joy Divison]

She always dies because saving my life does not justify her from possessing all of her "daughters" or killing all the Chasind men that she did.



She maybe an interesting and an enigma, but I'm surprised people let her go or feel bad about it.

[Cutlass Jack]

Fylimar wrote...
Plus: I have the feeling, I owe her. And the thing with Morrigans Baby: my last game crashed shortly before the ending, so I could be wrong here, but I always thought, that Morrigan wanted that child, to possess it, like her mother planned to her. Anyway, neither Morrigan nor her mother are nice persons - so I guess, there is no easy decision.

Owing Flemeth for my life was the one thing that gave me pause about 'killing' her. But my real feeling was that Flemeth didn't plan to take over Morrigan at all. What she really wanted was the god baby to possess and set up Morrigan (and you) with creating it. The God Baby would probably be the last body she'd ever need. I felt Morrigan was telling the truth as she knew it, but she didn't see the obvious larger plan her mother had.

This may be proven/disproven in Witch Hunt, but I haven't played it yet (so thanks in advance for not spoiling it)

[tehprincessJ]

I kill her. My warden sees Morrigan as a friend, regardless of how things turn out with the Dark Ritual. Killing Flemeth won't necessarily keep Morrigan out of danger from her mother indefinitely, but it does buy her some time.

Now they're saying that it doesn't really matter if she dies, since she's not properly dead anyway. So I honestly doubt it will matter one way or the other.

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

But Flemeth does save your life at Ostagar.

Only to further her own agenda, if you can believe anything Morrigan says to you the night before the final battle. I like to take out my frustration for any and all of Morrigan's lies on Flemeth. But that's just me.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Also, why does Morrigan still intend to have the Old god baby if thats what Flemeth sent her away for? You would think that after learning of Flemeth's motives, Morrigan would no longer go through with what Flemeth wanted.

[emile_the_devil]

Killed her. She'll come back anyway, so why not.

[LobselVith8]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

I really can't decide whether or not i should kill flemeth.

Flemeth's motives are extremely vague. She gives extremely vague answers to your questions when confronting her.

I'm not even sure what the hell she is. She could be some Old God, keeping an eye on Fereldan. Or she could be some kind of ancient demon, whom wishes to hurt Fereldan in some way.

I'm clueless on what i should do. What did you guys do with Flemeth, and why? (Apart from experience points)

I killed her. Although the game is bugged for these options, you were supposed to be able to keep the grimore (which remains an option in dialogue alone with Flemeth) or lie to Morrigan about killing Flemeth - and Morrigan would leave the group if you weren't able to successfully lie to her about killing off Flemeth. It's possible to get these options back as part of the Morrigan Restoration Patch - but they aren't avaliable on the vanilla game since they're bugged (along with the elven Bann epilogue, the Dalish boon and the Magi boon). Clearly, Morrigan has pressing reasons for wanting Flemeth dead, and the only reason Flemeth even saved the Warden was to further her own agenda - nothing else - so it never factors into my decision.

Honestly, Flemeth makes a lot of implications in her speech with the Warden, but it boils down to one crucial aspect of the moment - helping Morrigan seems to be an issue of trust, so do you trust Morrigan when she tells the Warden that killing Flemeth is necessary? She's pragmatic, she adovcates choices that enpower the Warden against the Blight, and she will never try to murder the Warden for taking a particular route that she disagrees with. Given how dire things are during a Blight and the darkspawn have remained as a threat (and taken over ten of the remaining Great Thaigs of the Deep Roads, spanning the entire continent of Thedas) I can see why she pushes the Warden to choose certain choices that may be unpleasant, but can be seen as necessary to win the battle against the Archdemon. Whether I agreed with her assessment of the situation or not, in the end - I trusted Morrigan.

[Reika]

My canon sees Morrigan as a friend, so has killed Flemeth to give Morrigan the time needed to learn what she needed to protect herself. Not to mention I don't remember seeing where Flemeth denies Morrigan's accusations, so even if Morrigan wasn't a friend, she'd still do it because the thought of someone doing that to their child... Ugh.

[Ninotchka]

I've killed Flemeth twice, but not in my other play throughs. I enjoy having one over Morrigan just as she enjoys not fully explaining what that old god child is going to mean for Ferelden, if not Thedas in the future.

I don't know why, but keeping Flemeth alive feels like an insurance policy of sorts. If my character undergoes the DR and can't find Morrigan with her old god child, Flemeth will and this somehow gives me comfort muahahahahaa.

That and I find Flemeth's character much more intriguing than I do Morrigan's, thus I am looking forward to see what Flemeth will get up to in DA2.

Modifié par Ninotchka, 27 janvier 2011 - 12:07 .

[Redcoat]

I'm currently playing as "master manipulator/Xanatos-gambitting" character, someone who wraps people around her finger, tells them what they want to hear, uses them to further her own ambitions (of being the most powerful mage in Ferelden), then discards them when they are inconvenient.

Now, to this character, Morrigan is pretty much useless. She doesn't know how to interact with society outside of the Wilds and is too willfully ignorant to learn. She doesn't have any political power that I can exploit to my own ends. She isn't emotionally invested in anything beyond her own survival. Worse, she and Flemeth both have their own gambits going on and, damn it! Nobody in my party does any gambitting except me! That means I refuse to do the dark ritual (thwarting her plan right there, or Flemeth's plan, if she had any part in cooking it up). Before that, of course, I went and killed Flemeth, thus weakening her. I take her grimoire, but I don't give it Morrigan, instead intending to use it to increase my character's own power. (Of course that doesn't really happen in the game, but this is from a role-playing perspective).

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

tehprincessJ wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

But Flemeth does save your life at Ostagar.

Only to further her own agenda, if you can believe anything Morrigan says to you the night before the final battle. I like to take out my frustration for any and all of Morrigan's lies on Flemeth. But that's just me.

But you don't know Flemeth's agenda at the time Morrigan asks you to kill her.

emile_the_devil wrote...

Killed her. She'll come back anyway, so why not.

You don't know that. Morrigan could just be reassuring you.

Really, it depends on how far you trust Morrigan when she's manipulating you just as much as Flemeth is. She continues Flemeth's plan for her own gain, so getting Flemeth out of the way may just be her way to ensure the OGC will be *hers* and not her mother's (not necessarily a bad thing, but we don't know what her true plans are any more than we do Flemeth's).

Modifié par Shadow of Light Dragon, 27 janvier 2011 - 02:13 .

[KyleTheArtist]

Killed her on my last playthrough...everybody died but Shale XD and even than I barely made it with her...

[Reika]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

emile_the_devil wrote...

Killed her. She'll come back anyway, so why not.

You don't know that. Morrigan could just be reassuring you.

Really, it depends on how far you trust Morrigan when she's manipulating you just as much as Flemeth is. She continues Flemeth's plan for her own gain, so getting Flemeth out of the way may just be her way to ensure the OGC will be *hers* and not her mother's (not necessarily a bad thing, but we don't know what her true plans are any more than we do Flemeth's).

Morrigan probably was manipulating things, but I don't really recall her out and out lying. Leaving things out, yes, but don't remember lies. I could have missed something though, I didn't talk with her as much as I did Shale, Leli and Zev, besides Alistair.

[Gibb_Shepard]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Also, why does Morrigan still intend to have the Old god baby if thats what Flemeth sent her away for? You would think that after learning of Flemeth's motives, Morrigan would no longer go through with what Flemeth wanted.

[Goosefish]

Gibb_Shepard wrote...

Also, why does Morrigan still intend to have the Old god baby if thats what Flemeth sent her away for? You would think that after learning of Flemeth's motives, Morrigan would no longer go through with what Flemeth wanted.

Yes, but Morrigan is herself opportunistic and appreciates power.  My guess is that Morrigan is betting on her own skill and cunning and power to outwit Flemeth in the end and keep the OG baby for herself - if it is the OG Flemeth wanted anyway.  Because, come on: if you were Morrigan, would you (willingly) let that opportunity walk on by?

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

What Goosefish said.



@Reika - Morrigan never gets *caught* in a lie. Zevran accuses her a couple of times in banter, Toolset notes for Flemeth imply Morrigan lied to the PC in order to have Flemeth killed (but toolset notes are not always accurate), but in the end the only way to know if Morrigan's ever lied is to know her full story or have a dev tell us.

[errant_knight]

The first couple of playthroughs, I didn't kill her, feeling that I didn't know enough about the situation to kill someone who saved our lives. She even saved my dog.

The third time I killed her, and after finding that she had clothes for Morrigan handily called 'Robes of Possession,' I now kill her every time. I might be greatful, but I'm not going to let her wear someone like a skin. It doesn't matter whether a given PC likes Morrigan or not.

Modifié par errant_knight, 27 janvier 2011 - 05:18 .

[shatteredstar56]

I heard Leliana's story of Flemeth.

I talked to Morrigan about Flemeth's methods.

I talked to Flemeth about her methods.

I will kill her every time.

[Cobwebmaster]

I always kill Flemeth irrespective of whether I am in a relationship with Morrigan or not. There are a couple of issues here. Firstly it is obvious that Flemeth and Morrigan have some motivation for helping me which is unclear to me for most of the game. Even when most of their ambitions are revealed there is still a potential question mark surrounding Flemeth's (whatever she really is which is not revealed) aspirations towards godhood. This may be a problem for another day but not one I would not defer by leaving Flemeth alive and in full command of her powers within a human body. Morrigan and I are by necessity allies until the Archdemon is dead. Part of the decision to kill Flemeth for me is based on the sort of issues I would have to address after the Bight is ended and I don't want two of them running around. Neutralising Flemeth is the best option as far as I am concerned. Maybe I can't kill her completely, but if I can restrict or defer her potential to cause even greater damage than an archdemon (she may already be one) I must.

By removing Flemeth I am choosing the lesser of two potential evils

Modifié par Cobwebmaster, 28 janvier 2011 - 03:27 .