82 réponses à ce sujet

[STG]

Personally I expect us to have a small 3-7 man team composed of ME comebacks and ME2 survivors. Maybe an introduction of one or two new characters but not much more than that. Also I expect major focus on main plot line which will leave character interaction in the background.

Georilla wrote...
I'd imagine Tali leading a quarian army, Garrus a turian army etc.

I am sure that both quarians and turians have better generals than Tali and Garrus. Specially considering that fleets will require someone with space combat expertise, which Tali and Garrus have pretty much none of.

[Mr.House]

Georilla wrote...
 I'd imagine Tali leading a quarian army, Garrus a turian army etc.

Yes let's have two people lead two armies who have got people killed in the past because of there rubish leading skills. Garrus has bad judgment and Tali led two squads which ended up with most of that squad killed.

[Capeo]

STG wrote...

Personally I expect us to have a small 3-7 man team composed of ME comebacks and ME2 survivors. Maybe an introduction of one or two new characters but not much more than that. Also I expect major focus on main plot line which will leave character interaction in the background.

The thing is they can't incorporate ME2 survivors into the main story line because they may not have survived.  So unless they choose a completely different route you'll have to have the ability to collect a new squad.  I would also think the squad has to be at least one of each class so that you can cover whatever situation your Shepard can't.

I know it's been mentioned, but there is no way they would hamstring you by being forced to live with just whoever survived ME2.  They can't.  The game has to be playable by people who have never played the previous games.

[JediMB]

Capeo wrote...

The thing is they can't incorporate ME2 survivors into the main story line because they may not have survived.

Or, god forbid, they actually let the player's actions have consequences. As advertised in Mass Effect 2. So the story changes a bit depending on who was recruited, who survived, and who died.

Capeo wrote...

I know it's been mentioned, but there is no way they would hamstring you by being forced to live with just whoever survived ME2.  They can't.  The game has to be playable by people who have never played the previous games.

Catering specifically to people who haven't played the previous games is a bit idiotic when they can simply follow the same formula as ME2 did. If the player doesn't have a save to import, there can be a default set of survivors available, like Garrus, Tali, Miranda and Jacob.

Heck, the survivors could even vary depending on Shepard's chosen background and gender, to spice things up.

Punishing fans in order to avoid punishing newcomers = bad idea.

Modifié par JediMB, 26 janvier 2011 - 08:34 .

[Lunatic LK47]

JediMB wrote...


Catering specifically to people who haven't played the previous games is a bit idiotic when they can simply follow the same formula as ME2 did. If the player doesn't have a save to import, there can be a default set of survivors available, like Garrus, Tali, Miranda and Jacob.

Heck, the survivors could even vary depending on Shepard's chosen background and gender, to spice things up.

Punishing fans in order to avoid punishing newcomers = bad idea.

This. I had a very low amount of faith in ME2 because of the "cater to n00bs" strategy, and I'm still disappointed with how the game turned out as a whole, regardless of what BioWare did right (i.e. the squadmates and the gameplay).

[Lvl20DM]

Mr.House wrote...

Yes let's have two people lead two armies who have got people killed in the past because of there rubish leading skills. Garrus has bad judgment and Tali led two squads which ended up with most of that squad killed.

Garrus is one of 3 squad-mates that can successfully lead the various fire teams during the SM. He's not a bad leader - he was betrayed. To quote the Shadowbroker: "Former C-Sec officer. Exceptional tactical and team-building skills. Leadership potential overshadowed by Shepard. Unlikely to fully develop under Shepard's command."
I actually see him becoming a Spectre in ME3.
Tali's next logical step in her character arc is to become a leader. That we've seen her struggle to do so will make her becoming an admiral more impactful.

Of all of the previous squadmates, three seem more likely than the others to return, from my perspective:
1) Liara - She can't die, she's played a large role in the story. She's also a potential LI. She is also the new SB, which might mean she has a role similar to TIM in the next game.
2)Ash/Kaidan - One of them is still alive. Potential LI. While the fact that only one can be in the game is a knock against them, Bioware has at least shown a willingness to have this kind of situation in DA2.
3)Legion - The Geth collective consciousness means that we would probably not be able to truly distinguish two similar platforms. Even if it dies, Legion has been in contact with the Geth, and thus they all "know" Shep. 
All 3 of the above also have good reasons not to be squadmates, too. <shrug>

[JayhartRIC]

The ME2 survivors can be playable squadmates and not be part of the main story.

[Mr.House]

Lvl20DM wrote...
Garrus is one of 3 squad-mates that can successfully lead the various fire teams during the SM. He's not a bad leader - he was betrayed. To quote the Shadowbroker: "Former C-Sec officer. Exceptional tactical and team-building skills. Leadership potential overshadowed by Shepard. Unlikely to fully develop under Shepard's command."
I actually see him becoming a Spectre in ME3.
Tali's next logical step in her character arc is to become a leader. That we've seen her struggle to do so will make her becoming an admiral more impactful.

There's a big diffrence between leading a small squad in one mission and leading an entire army in a war. Also Tali has yet to show any good leadership abilty, in fact, in ME2 we see she is bad at it, she can't even command 2 squads and even the SB brings that up. Garrus and Tali leading the turian and quarian forces would be a disaster, more people would die. Leave it to people who can do there job well, not people you like.

Modifié par Mr.House, 26 janvier 2011 - 10:23 .

[ZLurps]

My guess is that initial squad would consist of SM survivors. Normandy needs crew, not only crew to fly the ship but also crew that can handle situations on planets. In ME3 Virmire survivor may be recruitable.

I think characters that are going to be left out are DLC characters. Those who import their Shepard from ME2 and had them installed may get email from them.

[Capeo]

JediMB wrote...

Capeo wrote...

The thing is they can't incorporate ME2 survivors into the main story line because they may not have survived.

Or, god forbid, they actually let the player's actions have consequences. As advertised in Mass Effect 2. So the story changes a bit depending on who was recruited, who survived, and who died.

Capeo wrote...

I know it's been mentioned, but there is no way they would hamstring you by being forced to live with just whoever survived ME2.  They can't.  The game has to be playable by people who have never played the previous games.

Catering specifically to people who haven't played the previous games is a bit idiotic when they can simply follow the same formula as ME2 did. If the player doesn't have a save to import, there can be a default set of survivors available, like Garrus, Tali, Miranda and Jacob.

Heck, the survivors could even vary depending on Shepard's chosen background and gender, to spice things up.

Punishing fans in order to avoid punishing newcomers = bad idea.

Hey, man, I would love if they would do that but Bioware is a business first.  They're not going to shut out potential user base by making too much hinge on imported saves.  They're also not going to put resources into making extensive missions based on characters that might not even be there.

I'm not sure what you mean by following ME2s template.  What squad members would be there based on your imported save?  Garrus and Tali couldn't die ME1 if I'm not mistaken.  So there was no issue in putting them in the story and making big missions around them.  Characters that could die in ME1 just got cameos if they survived.

It would be cool if they just handle it so that any surving squad member is still with you on the Normandy.  I guess it depends on the plot and what has happened in the interim between ME2 and 3.  If you don't have a save then, like you say, you get a default squad from ME2, ideally, based on your class and gender choices.  Their dialog when talking to them on the Normandy could be used to help catch newcomers up.  Honestly, that would be perfect for me personally.  The less missions based on squad member gathering the better.  

Taking a route like that means there will be no big missions that are particular to any one squad member.  I have no problem with that though.  It's time to move into the meat of the plot. 

[Lunatic LK47]

Capeo wrote...

Hey, man, I would love if they would do that but Bioware is a business first.  They're not going to shut out potential user base by making too much hinge on imported saves.  They're also not going to put resources into making extensive missions based on characters that might not even be there.

Uh, last time I checked, Mass Effect was billed as a trilogy first when BioWare announced the game, and the main draw for me was the data import. I did not buy Mass Effect just to have three stand-alone games.

I'm not sure what you mean by following ME2s template.  What squad members would be there based on your imported save?  Garrus and Tali couldn't die ME1 if I'm not mistaken.  So there was no issue in putting them in the story and making big missions around them.  Characters that could die in ME1 just got cameos if they survived.

True, but last time I checked during the build-up for Mass Effect 2, no one knew if Garrus was joining the squad *AT ALL* and could have gotten the cameo treatment just cause. The only hidden hints were the subtitles during his recruitment mission, and no one except for one gaming outlet knew that Garrus was already in the squad (last time I checked due to "NDA reasons" that mission they saw ended up being Garrus's loyalty mission).

[Kusy]

To OP, In Mass Effect 1 you had all the squad members except for one after leaving the second major location. 2 hours in the game. And then two more to get the last one. There were only three squad members missions and they were sidequests not connected to the plot (however they affect Mass Effect 2 slightly).

[Capeo]

Uh, last time I checked, Mass Effect was billed as a trilogy first when BioWare announced the game, and the main draw for me was the data import. I did not buy Mass Effect just to have three stand-alone games.

That's quite true, but I'm sure they weren't counting on the success of the ME series.  Unfortunately I fear that means they have to cater to new comers to at least a certain degree.  If they were truly going to stay true to the trilogy idea then you should have been able to import your character as is, all powers and inventory included, and just make the enemies progressively more difficult as your power increased through the trilogy.

Instead they went the sequelitis route of having to come up with a way to strip you of your powers and start you over again (granted at a higher level and with some resources if you import a save).  I'm sure they are going to do something along those lines again.

[SalsaDMA]

There's no issue with 'newcomers'. That's what the 'default' startout is there for. SM survivors are just 'options' in exact the same degree as the 'options' of who you elected as councilor, wether you saved the council or not, what you did with he rachni queen, Ferros colonists, and so on and so on.



A new player that doesn't import a save gets default choices selected for him, to give him an 'adequate' gaming experience. For the 'full' experience you would have to import a save from the older games, just like in ME2 with ME1 saves.



There are enough surviving team-mates if Shepard survives the SM to make a playable team in future missions. They can add VM survivor if they feel generous, and/or maybe 1 or 2 peeps more.

If you decided to slack off your duties and were as incapable a leader that you only managed to save 2 team members in your suicide mission, you need to take the consequence of that with you in ME3.



Remember, a Shepard that dies can not be imported, thus Shepard will always have at least 2 team-members in any importable save. Enough to form a team, and thus enough to complete the game if needs be (albeit with alot less variety in ability to use different team members for different missions).

[Capeo]

SalsaDMA wrote...

There's no issue with 'newcomers'. That's what the 'default' startout is there for. SM survivors are just 'options' in exact the same degree as the 'options' of who you elected as councilor, wether you saved the council or not, what you did with he rachni queen, Ferros colonists, and so on and so on.

A new player that doesn't import a save gets default choices selected for him, to give him an 'adequate' gaming experience. For the 'full' experience you would have to import a save from the older games, just like in ME2 with ME1 saves.

There are enough surviving team-mates if Shepard survives the SM to make a playable team in future missions. They can add VM survivor if they feel generous, and/or maybe 1 or 2 peeps more.
If you decided to slack off your duties and were as incapable a leader that you only managed to save 2 team members in your suicide mission, you need to take the consequence of that with you in ME3.

Remember, a Shepard that dies can not be imported, thus Shepard will always have at least 2 team-members in any importable save. Enough to form a team, and thus enough to complete the game if needs be (albeit with alot less variety in ability to use different team members for different missions).

That would be ideal.  I just want some of who I have on my squad now.  I'm sure they'll add a couple members, hopefully via main plot based missions.  You know Liara has to come back into the fold somehow. 

[james1976]

Daryst wrote...

JP6400 wrote...

Sorry to disapoint you all. But we will have an entire new squadmate team. Beacause all our squadmates from ME 2 can die so they are only going to make them appear briefly like ashley or kaidan in ME 2. The only old squadmate that could be back is Liara. She is the only one that could be brought back. So we must accept that we must expect new squadmates in ME 3.

that wont happen. You will have to make due with the mates you got left after the final mission. If you lost half your squad, well tough luck then

But I dont think that they will bring in another 10 new squadmates.

THIS!  Because it will be part of the consquences for your past actions.  You'll have to make due with who survived, which will in turn make each story even more diverse.  And THAT will be great!   But I think they will indeed reintroduce the members somehow for those who have not played another Mass Effect game.  It may even be closer to ME1 in how the squad comes together so it is less drawn out.  ME2 allowed you to get personal with the team you were building.  I think it will depend on how they were treated and if they were loyal/survived if they return.

[Black-Xero]

Emyer wrote...

ME1- Introduction
ME2- Character/Squad Building
ME3- Conclusion

If they follow the trilogy rules/format I don't expect we will be doing that much character recruiting/building, no doubt they'll introduce some new characters, but unlike in ME2 I doubt they'll be the focus.

This is how I also see it.The second was mostly a setup for the third to help introduce to you most of the characters and Cerberus before beginning the final battle.

[ScotOfClanDonald]

I guess there's nothing I can say that will make some folks understand that it's exceedingly unlikely that Bioware will let us have our ME2 survivors as permanent squadmates, and that it's fully possible to have plenty of "consequences for the player's actions" while not having these characters join your permanent squad.



I also know that there's nothing I can really say that will prevent the inevitable pearl-clutching and angst that will take place when some folks find out that they won't have ME3 be exactly how they had envisioned it. All I can say is, prepare yourself to accept the reality: Bioware will make sure that playing the previous games is still rewarded, while not punishing new gamers, for whom the game will be truly marketed to.



Bioware has been doing a lot of veiled focus testing with their various new mechanics, like the DLC hovertank and the Liara mission having a temporary squadmate. I think that they're testing the waters for ME3 and that surviving NPCs will probably be available for a mission or two, as well as perhaps for an end battle that works similarly to the Suicide Mission, which, quite frankly, should be good enough as long as the rest of the game works.

[james1976]

The temporary squad mate thing would bother me I think. It was fine for LotSB but that was a DLC and not part of the main game. And the Hammerhead needs serious work otherwise that is just either laughable or shameful if it has a larger role in ME3. But something Hudson said in the Overlord interview makes me think that it will.

[SalsaDMA]

ScotOfClanDonald wrote...

I guess there's nothing I can say that will make some folks understand that it's exceedingly unlikely that Bioware will let us have our ME2 survivors as permanent squadmates, and that it's fully possible to have plenty of "consequences for the player's actions" while not having these characters join your permanent squad.

I also know that there's nothing I can really say that will prevent the inevitable pearl-clutching and angst that will take place when some folks find out that they won't have ME3 be exactly how they had envisioned it. All I can say is, prepare yourself to accept the reality: Bioware will make sure that playing the previous games is still rewarded, while not punishing new gamers, for whom the game will be truly marketed to.

Bioware has been doing a lot of veiled focus testing with their various new mechanics, like the DLC hovertank and the Liara mission having a temporary squadmate. I think that they're testing the waters for ME3 and that surviving NPCs will probably be available for a mission or two, as well as perhaps for an end battle that works similarly to the Suicide Mission, which, quite frankly, should be good enough as long as the rest of the game works.

there's nothing "Punishing" with having a default shepard for new players. This was done in ME2, and will be done in ME3 as well. Among the default choices will inevitable be which of your team members died during the Suicide Mission. I'm guessing that a couple of the ones that could die 'easy' will be tagged off as 'dead' for the default shepard, and only people importing a saved game where they live will be able to get the extra 'jazz' having them consitutes.

Your problem seems to be that you think this extra 'jazz' is an entire game worth of stuff. It's not. I would not be surprised that the 'biggest' effect it had, where just different comments at various points in the game, depending on who were alive or not. After all, even in ME2, which was rather character centric, how much extra 'jazz' did it really add 'per character'? One recruitment mission, to get him/her, and one loyalty mission to get him/her loyal.

Without the need of recruitment/loyalty missions, what exactly would be needed of character specific missions/content in 3? My take is that any of the missions can be done with any amount of surivivors from Me2, but having specific team members along on specific missions can open up different dialogues/comments from your team-members or NPCs.

Not exactly world shattering, tbh.

[ScotOfClanDonald]

Bioware has said many times that adding party members is the most detailed and time consuming thing they do for any of their games. The intersection of writing a script that is character consistant while interesting, CGI modelling, voice acting, flag toggles, interactions with other NPCS, and game mechanics are basically a nightmare that absorbs the time of multiple departments for a long period of time.



I don't think that having mindless killbots is that satisfying an experience, which is basically what you're asking for if you're not interested in each character getting a lot of work put into them to make them part of the story. In ME2, the characters were the story so you could stash their characterizations and plotlines in their associated missions, but in ME3, we need them seamlessly integrated because there's a much more important over-arching storyline.



Seriously. I know you don't believe me. I'm just asking for you to be ready for nigh-inevitable disappointment. Unless Bioware innovates far more than they've displayed so far (and I don't see why they'd do that as the final part of a trilogy) and sinks a lot more time & money than you'd expect would be feasable, you're not going to get what you want.

[Fixers0]

 I just hope Mass Effect 3 isn't going to be another Pokemon Recruitment game.

[pmac_tk421]

Have the ME2 squadies but add in these squadies.

Ashely- In the main gun room with Garrus, walks out when talking to you, same with garrus. If you stand next to them, they start chatting.

Kaiden- Engine room, at the end of the catwalk.

Wrex- in the hanger bay.

Liara- also hanger bay

Obviusly Kaiden and Ash appear depending on who died.

[rft]

Just watch a playthourgh of ME1 on youtube.

[Chewin]

All squadmates that survived under your playthrough of ME 1 and ME 2 will be in ME 3. Will everyone be at the normandy as a crue? Not confirmed.