219 réponses à ce sujet

[tmp7704]

Malanek999 wrote...

When you actually speak to the bloodmages in the tower they say they turned to it to gain freedom from the templars.

Yes, my point is people cite that as if it's some sort of proof that the same mages wouldn't reach for the same means to gain anything else, ever. When if anything it's an opposite -- since it shows that at least in come situation these mages are willing to do exactly this.

Gaining freedom happens to be one such situation, but the faith it's the only one is based on well, nothing.

Modifié par tmp7704, 28 janvier 2011 - 02:11 .

[Fishy]

Malanek999 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

He wouldn't have the motiviation to engage in a highly risky summoning that put his own soul at risk.

What makes you believe this, other than your own personal opinion that summoning demons is highly risky activity which puts one's soul at risk? I can't recall if we ever get to hear Uldred's view on this, nor on where exactly he'd draw a line between "fine, have it your way" and "demon summon time".

When you actually speak to the bloodmages in the tower they say they turned to it to gain freedom from the templars. And that is backed up by logic. You see the way they are treated. You see Uldred at Ostagar getting treated like a piece of filth by the chantry woman when he volunteers to help. You can't expect all people who are treated so badly to sit there and take it. Whenever people are oppressed it generates hatred and provides motivation to rebel.

The mage still aren't common folk . They need control . You don't leave a Schizophrene for too long without medication.or he might end up pretending to be John Wayne in the middle of your neighborhood street.

Just look at what happenned at the circle of magi .. All it's took was 1 abomination to start to party . The place was also heavily fortified and *protected* by templar . Think of Red cliffes . 1 Possessed kids almost wiped out the whole frigging town..

Mage need to be controlled. Sure they could police themself out but hmmmg .. They're also divided .i hate to admit it .. But i agree with the templar.

Modifié par Suprez30, 28 janvier 2011 - 02:16 .

[Eclipse_9990]

tmp7704 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

When you actually speak to the bloodmages in the tower they say they turned to it to gain freedom from the templars.

Yes, my point is people cite that as if it's some sort of proof that the same mages wouldn't reach for the same means to gain anything else, ever. When if anything it's an opposite -- since it shows that at least in come situation these mages are willing to do exactly this.

Gaining freedom happens to be one such situation, but the faith it's the only one is based on well, nothing.

Dude.. they are fighting for their freedom.. Be honest now. Wouldn't you do whatever it takes to be free if you were a slave? Or would you just lay down and take it like a b*tch? The way I see it is if takes a little blood magic to get sh*t done then so be it. F*ck the consequences. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 28 janvier 2011 - 02:20 .

[Malanek]

Suprez30 wrote...
The mage still aren't common folk . They need control . You don't leave a Schizophrene for too long without medication.or he might end up pretending to be John Wayne in the middle of your neighborhood street.

Just look at what happenned at the circle of magi .. All it's took was 1 abomination to start to party . The place was also heavily fortified and *protected* by templar . Think of Red cliffes . 1 Possessed kids almost wiped out the whole frigging town..

Mage need to be controlled. Sure they could police themself out but hmmmg .. They're also divided .i hate to admit it .. But i agree with the templar.

They need regulation and guidance. Trying to "control" them is a mistake.

[tmp7704]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Dude.. they are fighting for their freedom.. Be honest now. Wouldn't you do whatever it takes to be free if you were a slave? Or would you just lay down and take it like a b*tch? The way I see it is if takes a little blood magic to get sh*t done then so be it. F*ck the consequences. 

Be honest yourself -- if you were a mage free to do as you please, would you politely take every **** that comes your way and put up with everything you're dissatisfied with, when all it takes is a little blood magic to avoid it? At what point would you go "fsck the consequences" over something else? Suppose someone insults you, or your family or someone you care about? Or threatens them? Or actually hurts them?

Freedom isn't the only thing that can get people's tempers flaring and their senses muddled. And that's even before we get into the low, mundane feelings like hate, jealousy, lust for power or wanting to get even.

[Malanek]

tmp7704 wrote...
Be honest yourself -- if you were a mage free to do as you please, would you politely take every **** that comes your way and put up with everything you're dissatisfied with, when all it takes is a little blood magic to avoid it? At what point would you go "fsck the consequences" over something else? Suppose someone insults you, or your family or someone you care about? Or threatens them? Or actually hurts them?

Why would you need to resort to blood magic when someone insults you? Just ignore them. Or slap them in a forcefield and role them down a hill.

[tmp7704]

Malanek999 wrote...

Why would you need to resort to blood magic when someone insults you?

Why not? Suppose they happen to humiliate you in front of large crowd, why not control their puny mind and not only make them take it all back but also humiliate themselves as a little payback?

You're unlikely to do that if you believe the blood magic is risky, or wrong. But if you don't?

[Malanek]

tmp7704 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

Why would you need to resort to blood magic when someone insults you?

Why not? Suppose they happen to humiliate you in front of large crowd, why not control their puny mind and not only make them take it all back but also humiliate themselves as a little payback?

You're unlikely to do that if you believe the blood magic is risky, or wrong. But if you don't?

What you suggesting simply isn't important enough to get riled up about. You must agree there is a very big difference between being imprisoned and having someone call you a name?

[Eclipse_9990]

tmp7704 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Dude.. they are fighting for their freedom.. Be honest now. Wouldn't you do whatever it takes to be free if you were a slave? Or would you just lay down and take it like a b*tch? The way I see it is if takes a little blood magic to get sh*t done then so be it. F*ck the consequences. 

Be honest yourself -- if you were a mage free to do as you please, would you politely take every **** that comes your way and put up with everything you're dissatisfied with, when all it takes is a little blood magic to avoid it? At what point would you go "fsck the consequences" over something else? Suppose someone insults you, or your family or someone you care about? Or threatens them? Or actually hurts them?

Freedom isn't the only thing that can get people's tempers flaring and their senses muddled. And that's even before we get into the low, mundane feelings like hate, jealousy, lust for power or wanting to get even.

Honestly? If someone is trying to kill me or has hurt/killed someone that I care about. I definitely WOULD do my best to kill them no matter who they were. In other circumstances even if someone was stupid enough to insult a Mage. I would either ignore them, or insult them back. If they tried to take it too far I would retaliate.Almost anyone would, but I wouldn't kill someone for simply being a jerk.

As for threats.. Considering I'd be living in the world of Dragon Age I would take those very seriously and I probably would kill the guy/girl who threatened me or someone I know. It's not that different if you were a warrior/bandit/knight or whatever. Except for the fact that I can shoot fire out of my eyes, and lightning out of my ass. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 28 janvier 2011 - 03:00 .

[tmp7704]

Malanek999 wrote...

What you suggesting simply isn't important enough to get riled up about. You must agree there is a very big difference between being imprisoned and having someone call you a name?

It isn't for you. But this is not universal attitude and the insults used to be taken quite a bit more seriously in earlier times in general -- to the point people would duel over them. To death.

This is also example which would apply just to the people with the least amount of patience, but you're skipping over the others where a severe response is more likely.

[tmp7704]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

As for threats.. Considering I'd be living in the world of Dragon Age I would take those very seriously and I probably would kill the guy/girl who threatened me or someone I know. It's not that different if you were are warrior/bandit/knight or whatever. Except for the fact that I can shoot fire out of my eyes, and lightning out of my ass. 

And that brings us to something Mr.Gaider mentioned not too long ago -- how threatening or otherwise influencing mage's family is the oldest trick in the book for the demons to get a mage try to strike a deal with them or otherwise use them... thus creating an opening for the demon to take over the mage.

Which is exactly why it'd be naive to think that a mage outside of the tower would never ever in any circumstances have a possible reason to get in situation which could result in pretty much what happened in the broken circle arc.

[Eclipse_9990]

tmp7704 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

As for threats.. Considering I'd be living in the world of Dragon Age I would take those very seriously and I probably would kill the guy/girl who threatened me or someone I know. It's not that different if you were are warrior/bandit/knight or whatever. Except for the fact that I can shoot fire out of my eyes, and lightning out of my ass. 

And that brings us to something Mr.Gaider mentioned not too long ago -- how threatening or otherwise influencing mage's family is the oldest trick in the book for the demons to get a mage try to strike a deal with them or otherwise use them... thus creating an opening for the demon to take over the mage.

Which is exactly why it'd be naive to think that a mage outside of the tower would never ever in any circumstances have a possible reason to get in situation which could result in pretty much what happened in the broken circle arc.

Well the thing is.. A Mage can pretty much kill/hurt anything.. They don't even necessarily need blood magic. Unless the person they are trying to get to is a Noble, Templar, or whatever. Also you do know that Mages even inside a tower can still learn blood magic right? Whether its by demon's, tomes, or a radical professor. I mean how do you think Uldred learned blood magic? He was only out of the tower during Ostagar. He could have learned it at any time, same with his followers. 

[crimzontearz]

depends on who sends me the prettiest elven girls as a "bribe" for my favors............



LOL just kidding, Mages

[Northern Sun]

I may hate the Chantry, but if the alternative causes a scenario that is worse for the common people I'd side with them.



Still, any templar that tries to touch mage Hawke or a mage companion is going to get their head lopped off.

[tmp7704]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Well the thing is.. A Mage can pretty much kill/hurt anything.. They don't even necessarily need blood magic.

From the very fact blood magic was invented, widely used in some places and is still both studied and feared far more than other kinds of magic it'd appear there's areas where the  regular magic isn't sufficient.

Not all situations can be solved just by killing/hurting someone. The most obvious example would be what happened in Redcliffe -- the Arl gets poisoned (by blood mage, no less) and short of a miracle no one appears able to cure him after the demon gets involved, the guy who poisoned the Arl in the first place included. And killing the demon responsible for it definitely doesn't do the trick.

Also you do know that Mages even inside a tower can still learn blood magic right? Whether its by demon's, tomes, or a radical professor. I mean how do you think Uldred learned blood magic? He was only out of the tower during Ostagar. He could have learned it at any time, same with his followers. 

Of course, but it has nothing to do with discussion whether a mage who was never held in a tower to begin with would ever use such knowledge?

Modifié par tmp7704, 28 janvier 2011 - 03:15 .

[Malanek]

tmp7704 wrote...
Of course, but it has nothing to do with discussion whether a mage who was never held in a tower to begin with would ever use such knowledge?

The other thing to consider is that is that if the mage tower was run by mages and the students were treated better, apostate mages (and their parents) wouldn't have the same desire to avoid the place. Isolde never would have held connor back, so the chantry and templars have to bare a lot of the balme for what happened there as well.

[HiroVoid]

Mages suck anyway. They would use magic every time someone pulls a joke on them.



Normal: Hah! Got you!

Mage: Son of a...*Uses magic*

Normal: What the...!? *Falls down and hurts himself*

Mage: Try to be more careful. *Walks off in a pompous manner*

[Eclipse_9990]

tmp7704 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Well the thing is.. A Mage can pretty much kill/hurt anything.. They don't even necessarily need blood magic.

From the very fact blood magic was invented, widely used in some places and is still both studied and feared far more than other kinds of magic it'd appear there's areas where the  regular magic isn't sufficient.

Not all situations can be solved just by killing/hurting someone. The most obvious example would be what happened in Redcliffe -- the Arl gets poisoned (by blood mage, no less) and short of a miracle no one appears able to cure him after the demon gets involved, the guy who poisoned the Arl in the first place included. And killing the demon responsible for it definitely doesn't do the trick.

Also you do know that Mages even inside a tower can still learn blood magic right? Whether its by demon's, tomes, or a radical professor. I mean how do you think Uldred learned blood magic? He was only out of the tower during Ostagar. He could have learned it at any time, same with his followers. 

Of course, but it has nothing to do with discussion whether a mage who was never held in a tower to begin with would ever use such knowledge?

Bold: Ok thats a pretty sh*tty example because the poison was already supplied to Jowan(by a non-mage no less). Blood Magic or Magic in general had nothing to do with that.

Second Bold: Well the thing is you can use blood magic for stuff other than killing, and taking over people you know? Here a scanned page of a Dragon Age comic. Read what the blood mage says..



Blood magic can be used for as he says "Healing the sick, protecting the innocent, restoring failing crops, or making a barrier". Blood Magic can do some good things too you know..

Also..

HiroVoid wrote...

Mages suck anyway. They would use magic every time someone pulls a joke on them.

Normal: Hah! Got you!
Mage: Son of a...*Uses magic*
Normal: What the...!? *Falls down and hurts himself*
Mage: Try to be more careful. *Walks off in a pompous manner*

Lol that is awesome. 

Modifié par Eclipse_9990, 28 janvier 2011 - 03:50 .

[tmp7704]

Malanek999 wrote...

The other thing to consider is that is that if the mage tower was run by mages and the students were treated better, apostate mages (and their parents) wouldn't have the same desire to avoid the place. Isolde never would have held connor back, so the chantry and templars have to bare a lot of the balme for what happened there as well.

As far as i understand it Isolde tried to hide Connor's ability because mages aren't allowed to hold titles (meaning Connor couldn't inherit Redcliffe if the word got out)  So it had very little to do with how mages are being treated in their tower. In one of the endings you can get Isolde gives birth to another child (a daughter) and after this child is discovered to also be a mage the Arl puts her in the tower and visits her there regularly.

Modifié par tmp7704, 28 janvier 2011 - 03:41 .

[Malanek]

tmp7704 wrote...

Malanek999 wrote...

The other thing to consider is that is that if the mage tower was run by mages and the students were treated better, apostate mages (and their parents) wouldn't have the same desire to avoid the place. Isolde never would have held connor back, so the chantry and templars have to bare a lot of the balme for what happened there as well.

As far as i understand it Isolde tried to hide Connor's ability because mages aren't allowed to hold titles (meaning Connor couldn't inherit Redcliffe if the word got out)  So it had very little to do with how mages are being treated in their tower. In one of the endings you can get Isolde gives birth to another child (a daughter) and after this child is discovered to also be a mage the Arl puts her in the tower and visits her there regularly.

Not being allowed to hold titles IS another example of the chantry treating mages badly.

[HTTP 404]

Im gonna be passive aggressive about them. Im gonna be nice to their face and talk crap behind their back ala Housewives show

[tmp7704]

Malanek999 wrote...

Not being allowed to hold titles IS another example of the chantry treating mages badly.

But not something that would be affected by how the mage towers are run nor by who is in charge of them.

[HiroVoid]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

tmp7704 wrote...

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Well the thing is.. A Mage can pretty much kill/hurt anything.. They don't even necessarily need blood magic.

From the very fact blood magic was invented, widely used in some places and is still both studied and feared far more than other kinds of magic it'd appear there's areas where the  regular magic isn't sufficient.

Not all situations can be solved just by killing/hurting someone. The most obvious example would be what happened in Redcliffe -- the Arl gets poisoned (by blood mage, no less) and short of a miracle no one appears able to cure him after the demon gets involved, the guy who poisoned the Arl in the first place included. And killing the demon responsible for it definitely doesn't do the trick.

Also you do know that Mages even inside a tower can still learn blood magic right? Whether its by demon's, tomes, or a radical professor. I mean how do you think Uldred learned blood magic? He was only out of the tower during Ostagar. He could have learned it at any time, same with his followers. 

Of course, but it has nothing to do with discussion whether a mage who was never held in a tower to begin with would ever use such knowledge?

Bold: Ok thats a pretty sh*tty example because the poison was already supplied to Jowan(by a non-mage no less). Blood Magic or Magic in general had nothing to do with that.

Second Bold: Well the thing is you can use blood magic for stuff other than killing, and taking over people you know? Here a scanned page of a Dragon Age comic. Read what the blood mage says..



Blood magic can be used for as he says "Healing the sick, protecting the innocent, restoring failing crops, or making a barrier". Blood Magic can do some good things too you know..

Also..

HiroVoid wrote...

Mages suck anyway. They would use magic every time someone pulls a joke on them.

Normal: Hah! Got you!
Mage: Son of a...*Uses magic*
Normal: What the...!? *Falls down and hurts himself*
Mage: Try to be more careful. *Walks off in a pompous manner*

Lol that is awesome. 

That example mostly came from KOTOR with an interaction between Bastila and Mission.

[tmp7704]

Eclipse_9990 wrote...

Bold: Ok thats a pretty sh*tty example because the poison was already supplied to Jowan(by a non-mage no less). Blood Magic or Magic in general had nothing to do with that.

I'm not entirely convinced because then why put such crucial plan in hands of pretty much stranger and risk he double-crosses you and reveals it all instead of following the plan like an actual faithful underlining would? Surely Loghain wasn't lacking these.

Second Bold: Well the thing is you can use blood magic for stuff other than killing, and taking over people you know?

Yes, but you do realize this discussion is specifically about whether a mage not locked up in tower would possibly use the aspects of blood magic harmful for other people? I doubt anyone in Thedas is really concerned that if mages weren't held in the towers then some of them could, Maker forbid, improve the local crops or heal some sick.