48 réponses à ce sujet

[xedgorex]

 I think she's cute and has redeeming qualities but i think its highly risky and not an all around responsible choice to romance Jack.

She's an admitted murderer, arsonist, thief and all around psychopath. Granted she had a cruddy childhood and all that nonsense, but it doesn't really justify all of her actions. It gives a reason, but not a justification.

Plus, no matter how much you love her and she loves you, she just seems like the chick to blow your brains out the second she thinks you're stepping out on her, whether you are or not.


So tell me, why do you Romance her? Do you pull out the 'people can change' card?

Idk, i'm curious.

[The Uncanny]

I don't want her to change. I like her as she is.

A little risk makes things exciting... 

Modifié par The Uncanny, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:45 .

[Icinix]

Saying she had a 'cruddy' childhood is like saying a car crushed to the size of a marble is just a little damaged.

She was engineered to hate everyone and love killing, but you can see pretty quickly that there is more to her than what she was forced to be. Her romance conclusion in my mind is the best romance of the pick, without knowing where it was going it - was just awe inspiring to see her let her defenses down bit by bit and open up.

Modifié par Icinix, 26 janvier 2011 - 09:49 .

[weedyfun]

You can't change people intentionally. And it's dangerous to go pursue a relationship with that sort of mentality. It usually ends very badly.



And I like Jack for who she is. If she changed into this calm, 'normal' person, then she would bore me.

[axl99]

By that logic, romancing Jack would be no better than romancing a professional assassin like Thane, or an ex-cop vigilante like Garrus, or one of the top agents in a terrorist organization - Miranda and Jacob. Or an unwitting accomplice to a war crime, like Tali. [Granted she's done nothing wrong per se, but the guilt will stick and Admiral Xen might rear her head in the future and blow that hard won happiness to hell]

For one, it was never truly established that Jack is a psychopath. That's just the advertisement campaign talking.

Psychopaths have such self-control issues that they'd never allow themselves to be put into a position of vulnerability. Jack on the other hand has been put through those paces over and over until she gave up on the idea of trusting people in general and establish meaningful relationships with them.

Which is exactly one of the first few things she does, she pushes you away. She uses her criminal record and her past to push you away. She is openly worried about the possibility of you choosing someone else over her and then harming you in retaliation.That's not what psychopaths do.

Psychopaths don't also singlehandedly take down turian spaceships for burning down one of the few places they can call home - outlaw colony or no. That's simply way too much effort. And they most certainly don't shed tears for people who sacrificed their lives for them.

I romanced her because of her as a person. She's introspective, she's self-determined, independent, and a dark sense of humour helps as well. She has the capacity to love, otherwise she wouldn't have been so bitter about her previous relationships.

If she wants to change, she'll do it on her own time. It makes no difference to me.

Modifié par axl99, 27 janvier 2011 - 02:48 .

[jeweledleah]

my saccharine sweet paragon male shep has a thing for broken birds and trying to heal their broken wings. Jack has an added bonus of being a broken wing hawk or something, so there's thrill from danger and incredible satisfaction of knowing that this dangerous individual trusts you and lets go of their armor with you and only with you. god, my shep has issues O_O which in a way makes him perfect for Jack, they can trade baggage and they'll never be bored

[xedgorex]

Yeah i understand the appeal of her i mean everyone likes a bad girl who sticks up for her self.



And yeah sure it implies she changes for the better throughout a romance, but really thats a lot of wishful thinking.



I'm aware she was raised to be a murdering psychopath but that doesn't make it okay that she did all of those things, or the fact she is still a violent mal aligned girl.



Pursuing a relationship with her is pursuing a relationship that could very easily end with you being dead or abused.



Its just a dangerous and risky thing, its like dating a girl who you just broke out of prison for murdering tons of people. Which is exactly what you did. Childhood or not.

[2kgnsiika]

The Uncanny wrote...

I don't want her to change. I like her as she is.

A little risk makes things exciting... 

By a little risk you must mean heavy risk...

[weedyfun]

She won't harm you in any way if she has genuine feelings for you... Look at the paragon romance. She cried. Enough said.

[The Uncanny]

2kgnsiika wrote...

The Uncanny wrote...

I don't want her to change. I like her as she is.

A little risk makes things exciting... 

By a little risk you must mean heavy risk...

But the priiiiize... 

[RolandX9]

xedgorex wrote...

I'm aware she was raised to be a murdering psychopath but that doesn't make it okay that she did all of those things, or the fact she is still a violent mal aligned girl.

Um, you do realize even the most Paragon Shepard is working for Cerberus in 2, right? Let's play a little word association here: Kahoku, Toombs, Listening Post, Colony of the Dead...

Yeah, Jack's done some messed up stuff. As others have mentioned, so have Thane, Garrus and Miranda. Thane used to be a contract killer who justifies his actions with "my body did it." Garrus was the freakin' Punisher of Omega. Miranda is TIM's right hand woman, and even if she wasn't directly involved in the above projects she's certainly willing to help them along. Jacob may qualify, too, depending on how much he knows about Cerberus' vilest activities. (Blaming Tali for her father's BS is seriously stretching it, though, IMHO.) Frankly, I wish there were some way to reach Jack without romancing her, but between some of the crap Shepard can have lived through and/or done (Colonist, Earthborn, Sole Survivor, Ruthless, rachni genocide, losing the Normandy and dying, endorsing Terra Firma, borderline galactic conquest), there's all kinds of understandable reasons that he might decide to hook up with someone who understands "messed up."

Edit: just to clarify -- and I like Thane, Garrus and Jacob. Miranda too, after she comes around. "I noticed. Consider this my resignation." Hell yeah.

Modifié par RolandX9, 26 janvier 2011 - 10:40 .

[Ciryx]

Um, you do realize even the most Paragon Shepard is working for Cerberus in 2, right? Let's play a little word association here: Kahoku, Toombs, Listening Post, Colony of the Dead...

Yeah, Jack's done some messed up stuff. As others have mentioned, so have Thane, Garrus and Miranda. Thane used to be a contract killer who justifies his actions with "my body did it." Garrus was the freakin' Punisher of Omega. Miranda is TIM's right hand woman, and even if she wasn't directly involved in the above projects she's certainly willing to help them along. Jacob may qualify, too, depending on how much he knows about Cerberus' vilest activities. (Blaming Tali for her father's BS is seriously stretching it, though, IMHO.) Frankly, I wish there were some way to reach Jack without romancing her, but between some of the crap Shepard can have lived through and/or done (Colonist, Earthborn, Sole Survivor, Ruthless, rachni genocide, losing the Normandy and dying, endorsing Terra Firma, borderline galactic conquest), there's all kinds of understandable reasons that he might decide to hook up with someone who understands "messed up."

Edit: just to clarify -- and I like Thane, Garrus and Jacob. Miranda too, after she comes around. "I noticed. Consider this my resignation." Hell yeah.

Quality post detected.
This post sums it up pretty much.

Modifié par Ciryx, 26 janvier 2011 - 10:51 .

[2kgnsiika]

RolandX9 wrote...

xedgorex wrote...

I'm aware she was raised to be a murdering psychopath but that doesn't make it okay that she did all of those things, or the fact she is still a violent mal aligned girl.

Um, you do realize even the most Paragon Shepard is working for Cerberus in 2, right? Let's play a little word association here: Kahoku, Toombs, Listening Post, Colony of the Dead...

Yeah, Jack's done some messed up stuff. As others have mentioned, so have Thane, Garrus and Miranda. Thane used to be a contract killer who justifies his actions with "my body did it." Garrus was the freakin' Punisher of Omega. Miranda is TIM's right hand woman, and even if she wasn't directly involved in the above projects she's certainly willing to help them along. Jacob may qualify, too, depending on how much he knows about Cerberus' vilest activities. (Blaming Tali for her father's BS is seriously stretching it, though, IMHO.) Frankly, I wish there were some way to reach Jack without romancing her, but between some of the crap Shepard can have lived through and/or done (Colonist, Earthborn, Sole Survivor, Ruthless, rachni genocide, losing the Normandy and dying, endorsing Terra Firma, borderline galactic conquest), there's all kinds of understandable reasons that he might decide to hook up with someone who understands "messed up."

Edit: just to clarify -- and I like Thane, Garrus and Jacob. Miranda too, after she comes around. "I noticed. Consider this my resignation." Hell yeah.

I think OP's concern was not Jack's past actions per se, but her violent and unpredictable personality. Thane might be the most cold blooded killer out there, but he's still a very reasonable man, who will not suddenly give you a biotic kick in the nuts if you ****** him off. Likewise, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob etc. have certainly done some questionable things but they're still pretty stable and predictable (in a nice way)...

Unlike Jack...

[axl99]

The real question is, would you actually cheat or break it off for Jack for someone else or you couldn't be bothered to make something out of the relationship? I think those of us who took the time to romance Jack and knew about the consequences were already swimming with the sharks.

And as I said earlier? She even gave us FAIR WARNING.

And what did Shepard say in response? He's either technically dead or just plain nuts for doing a job for TIM.

All of the LIs don't respond well to being the third wheel in a relationship, what makes Jack so different other than the speculation that she MIGHT punch your face out? Thing is, she WON'T.

If you reject her in your cabin, she just turns and walks away in tears instead of smearing the walls with your blood.

That says something.

Modifié par axl99, 26 janvier 2011 - 11:50 .

[Aigyl]

2kgnsiika wrote...

I think OP's concern was not Jack's past actions per se, but her violent and unpredictable personality. Thane might be the most cold blooded killer out there, but he's still a very reasonable man, who will not suddenly give you a biotic kick in the nuts if you ****** him off. Likewise, Garrus, Miranda, Jacob etc. have certainly done some questionable things but they're still pretty stable and predictable (in a nice way)...

Unlike Jack...

A lot of the romances are dangerous though.


Tali can potentially die from just touching her.

A FemShep romancing Garrus can be poisoned if she, uh... ingests.

Jacob's romance is a heavy risk. (sorry, sorry, couldn't resist)


Jack's romance has a level of risk certainly, but no more than some of the other romances. Also as you progress through her dialogue she appears more and more controlled. The whole 'psychopathic crazy ****' thing is a facade to keep people away.

[Elyvern]

I do really think if you go into Jack's romance thinking you need to change her to the drastic length where she looks back on her past and abhors the things she do, then she's really not the type for you.

I like Jack the way she is. Sure, a romance opens up to her the possibilities of a less destructive lifestyle and such. There's no way she won't be influenced by it. But if Jack should change, it should be because she wants to, and not because she's so enarmoured of Shepard she wants to be the best woman for him.

[Jarek_Cousland]

I did her romance to see what it was like.





Idk I have to agree with you OP, I think she'd take out half the Normandy in a jealous rage cause I talked to Kelly.

[volus4life]

i wouldn't risk it.



if miranda/tali thinks you used her, she gets mad.

if jack somehow gets to think you used her, she'll kill you. like how and why she killed so many of her previous flings.



not worth the risk, no matter the prize.

[AdmiralCheez]

'Manced her because I really like her and wanted MOAR DIALOGUE. Include better bromance, Bioware, so Shepard doesn't have to prostitute him/herself for the sake of a few snippets of conversation.

Besides, if you make an effort to understand her and be there for her, you've got nothing to worry about.  If all hell breaks loose anyway, Shep can handle it.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 27 janvier 2011 - 12:45 .

[Jarek_Cousland]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Besides, if you make an effort to understand her and be there for her, you've got nothing to worry about.  If all hell breaks loose anyway, Shep can handle it.

True, if it goes by gameplay standards I could just go cloak and get my BOOM HEADSHOT!!! on.


But if story powers come into play it'll be the intro of ME2 all over again.

[Sable Rhapsody]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Include better bromance, Bioware, so Shepard doesn't have to prostitute him/herself for the sake of a few snippets of conversation.

This is possibly the best way I've heard the stupid "you must romance to have character development" trend described.  WIN sticker for you 

[Jarek_Cousland]

I dont hate Jack or her Romance plot its just I see a fine line between her adoration to Shepard and her Homicidal tendencies.

[V-rex]

axl99 wrote...

The real question is, would you actually cheat or break it off for Jack for someone else or you couldn't be bothered to make something out of the relationship? I think those of us who took the time to romance Jack and knew about the consequences were already swimming with the sharks.

And as I said earlier? She even gave us FAIR WARNING.

And what did Shepard say in response? He's either technically dead or just plain nuts for doing a job for TIM.

All of the LIs don't respond well to being the third wheel in a relationship, what makes Jack so different other than the speculation that she MIGHT punch your face out? Thing is, she WON'T.

If you reject her in your cabin, she just turns and walks away in tears instead of smearing the walls with your blood.

That says something.

:crying:

Oh god, I hate the 'reject Jack' scene, it's just so horrible..... seriously only someone with absolutely no soul could be that cold to someone at that state of emotional vulnerability. But yes, it's still a great point. At the point where someone does one of the cruelest and most unfair things to her in her whole life, she doesn't explode. She cries.
And then a bunch of idiot youtube commentors cheer and I lose more faith in humanity.

Anyway, like others have said, Jack is no more dangerous than any of the other romanceables in Mass Effect. Hell, Miranda originally wanted to put a control chip in your brain, I'm sure if most people had heard that they would let such a dame slide but apparently not. I don't see how Jack is any different.

Hell, most of Jack's violent and angry persona is just a way to keep people away, just as her romance is all about talking to her and getting to know her and realizing that underneath it all she's still that same terrified victim, who was made into a monster thanks to endless abuse and isolation. Signs demonstrate actual guilt about some of the things she's done, even if she tries to deny it.

Hell, she had plenty of oppurtunities to go crazy and kill everyone she could find, she never did. And she was on a Cerberus vessel at the time, so if she was truly a psychopath she could justify that to herself. Instead during the suicide mission I always make her escort the crew back to the Normandy, and she fights valiantly and defends them. Similarly if you pick her as the biotic against the Seeker Swarms she says 'Yes Sir/ma'am' in a genuinely respectful way. Implying that she clearly has developed loyalty through this whole experience.

As for her romance well, as the poster I've quoted said, considering how her romance is put together and played out it seems like it's pretty clear that this is a serious relationship. There's going to be emotional baggage, there could be hardships and adjustments on both sides ahead. Shepard knew what he was getting himself into when he fell in love with Jack, so yeah for the vast majority of the Jack fans out there it seems kind of hard to believe that there would be a situation where Shepard ever 'dumped' Jack or decided to go flirt with Kelly or decide to not just put any effort into the relationship.
This isn't like Miranda where the romance is based on physical attraction and everyone is being casual about it, this one was about emotional bonds and establishing a real connection. It seems hard to imagine that anyone could enter it under the mindset of 'I can just take or leave this one'.

But do I think Jack needs to change? Not really, she's fine just the way she is. The added danger and attitude add excitement and flavour to the emotional depth of her romance, I don't think she needs 'fixing', in fact she's demonstrated that she may be more put together than people give her credit for. If Shepard fell in love with Jack, then one can imagine he fell in love with her for who is, not what he's imagining she could end up being.

Finally, I actually did do a romance with Jack in one playthrough because I wanted to experience it for myself. And you know what? I never once worried for my safety (though she was kind of mad that I kept the Collector base in that playthrough.... but then so was everyone) and was moved by her romance instead. Once oyu get to know her you know that Jack is someone of great power, strength and rage. But under that a person with a hidden sense of compassion and a soft side, put the two together and what I see is endearing. Not scary.

Also as a side note, does anyone else kind of smell a hate thread here? I mean it might not be the OP's intention but he did ask a question guarenteed to rile up the Jack fanbase and get them all to start angrily posting here. No I'm not directly accusing the OP of trolling, just pointing out that it could easily be mistaken as such.

[Razorsedge820]

Jack is for those who are not afraid to take a risk and are willing to handle all the baggage that comes with her. Being a Jackolyte I would be the first to admit that out of all the love Interests she is the most difficult to crack open and even after that she still gives Shepard crap.

Why would my Shepard want to be with someone who has a violent past and is a bit unstable? Because Jack is worth it. I feel that that out of all the LI's Jack needs Shepard the most because without him she would just continue her life of crime and as strong as Jack may be she will just wind up dieing.

If Jack is with Shepard she will stop being so angry at the whole Galaxy and will not want to kill everything she sees because she now has someone that will not use her as a weapon or for sex. I know this sounds corny but love can really change a person.

Modifié par Razorsedge820, 27 janvier 2011 - 02:38 .

[Jarek_Cousland]

@V-rex: You make a good point, I guess I wasnt over the massive O________o you get when you see her first wake up and the Shadow broker vid.





I think the best line of what you say is her Loyalty mission: "Its like, I'm a powerful b****. But I'm still a scared little girl you know?" Or something along those lines.