216 réponses à ce sujet

[Sidney]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Mass Effect is already about travelling throughout the galaxy to very different places, why exploring uncharted planets would be out of place? Still haven't answered this, you just said a stupid comment instead. It's just a logical step.

PS: I love driving to and in NEW places, with different architechture/geography/whatnot. I like travelling, like many people. And I'm not saying it was perfect in ME1, I'm not saying it couldn't be improved, but it was a step in the right direction. If you didn't like it, maybe they could manage a version which you like.

It isn't logical because you are on a clock in ME1. The explorations and side missions just felt wrong, really wrong. ME2 explains the pauses in your momentum but ME1 never even tries. You're just blowing off the galaxy to play rock hound.

Don't get me wrong, planet scanning is an abomination but the answer ins't to say ME1's bland exploration was much better. The problem is that the worlds you explore are empty and worthless and almost have to be because these planets are the Sahara desert and Antarctica of the galaxy - places no one wants to be.

They want to give me more room to explore something that might be interesting like Ilos or the Citadel...great. Give me plot and a reason to wander about and I'll love to do it but don't slap me down in the middle of nowehere and say enjoy the view.

[Merlin 47]

Sidney wrote...

ME1's exploration was similar, you have a planet, 4-5 locations. 1 actual "interesting" encounter and then 2 rocks,, a downed probe and a turian insignia. The latter 4 suck and the one good encounter - the reason you were on the planet takes way too long to get to.

Yeah.....halfway through my first playthrough, I just gave up on trying to find all those spots on the map and just went for the encounter that I was there for.  It didn't help that the Mako just "chugged" along so slowly.  Granted, it had some nice shields and I loved that cannon, but perhaps a hybrid vehicle is in order then.  The Mako's shields with the Hammerhead's manuverability and speed.  Or even just upgrade the shields on the  Hammerhead; that'd work too.

[ZachForrest]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

ZachForrest wrote...

Going to 'different places' an explorer does not make.

If you get so excited about driving around an asteroid, driving into town must be absolutely earth shattering.

Gotta be one of the worst trash comments I read here. You're insulting your own intelligence:pinched:

I think you're purposefully missing the point or something.

Of course not, it doesn't make exploration per se, but that's pretty much the basic. It's not just different places, it's very different places. If there isn't a certain degree of exploration when going across all the galaxy, then... I mean, it's half the step to exploration. It's not "going to school, going to the job, going to a friend's place is exploration"... But you're telling me that if I get to the States the summer, as well as France, that I'm not travelling or exploring a tiny bit? Exploring the galaxy is first and foremost going to the colonized areas, it's part of the whole thing.

Mass Effect is already about travelling throughout the galaxy to very different places, why exploring uncharted planets would be out of place? Still haven't answered this, you just said a stupid comment instead. It's just a logical step.

PS: I love driving to and in NEW places, with different architechture/geography/whatnot. I like travelling, like many people. And I'm not saying it was perfect in ME1, I'm not saying it couldn't be improved, but it was a step in the right direction. If you didn't like it, maybe they could manage a version which you like.

For all your purported use of logic, i have no idea what your first paragraph means.

A logical step? How is that a logical step? On that basis the logical step is for ME to become a galactic cartography simulator?

Don't get 'logic' confused with your opinion.

If the planets you so love to explore weren't all exactly the same beyond a few textures/elevations I wouldn't be so averse to it. Very different places? Hardly.

[E-MailA.K.A.Mr.Fox]

I want both back, but both better have the exploration of ME1, wich ME2 lacked greatly from. Even the Overloard missions, which i liked, seemed small compared to the exploration in one Uncharted World from ME1.

[Evil Johnny 666]

ZachForrest wrote...

For all your purported use of logic, i have no idea what your first paragraph means.

A logical step? How is that a logical step? On that basis the logical step is for ME to become a galactic cartography simulator?

Don't get 'logic' confused with your opinion.

If the planets you so love to explore weren't all exactly the same beyond a few textures/elevations I wouldn't be so averse to it. Very different places? Hardly.

I didn't say THE logical step, A logical step. Big difference. And you're exagerating, ME1's exploration wasn't a galactic cartography simulator. Since you hated the thing so much, I'd be surprised you explored much. Yes, some planets were too alike, but that doesn't mean they were all alike. Some had quite different geographies, some had more random mountains, other had more "paths", others had more plateaux, etc. Some where on moons, some were volcanic, etc. I'm not saying they couldn't be improved, on the contrary, but dismissing the whole exploration thing based on poor level design is weak. It's not because you found the level design to be poor that it can't be good.

[Spartas Husky]

Honestly. I rather have empty exploration rather than the empty scanning on ME2.



ME2 Scanning< ME1 Empty exploration< hopefully improvement of the exploration in ME3



here free idea BIOWARE for free.



Grab the Mako, reduce the map size of ME1 by 25%. put more enemies. Make more pasable roads. Allow mako to drop in the pint where you want.



Enemy bases have AA batteries, if you drop within the red circle (red circle indicating AA range) you get blown before touching down



there. One idea for free.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Sidney wrote...
It isn't logical because you are on a clock in ME1. The explorations and side missions just felt wrong, really wrong. ME2 explains the pauses in your momentum but ME1 never even tries. You're just blowing off the galaxy to play rock hound.

Don't get me wrong, planet scanning is an abomination but the answer ins't to say ME1's bland exploration was much better. The problem is that the worlds you explore are empty and worthless and almost have to be because these planets are the Sahara desert and Antarctica of the galaxy - places no one wants to be.

They want to give me more room to explore something that might be interesting like Ilos or the Citadel...great. Give me plot and a reason to wander about and I'll love to do it but don't slap me down in the middle of nowehere and say enjoy the view.

Except ME2 asks you to play the errand boy too. Don't tell me doing loyalty missions - for 12 squad members! - wasn't against the sense of urgency. Surely you can do that mission without earning their loyalty. It was a weak plot device anyway, some of them were pretty fun, but hardly fit in. In the heat of the action, I'd be surprised for your squad member to die because they weren't loyal enough, or also surprised because they wouldn't follow properly your orders because of that. The moment you are on the suicide mission, there's no turning back, loyalty doesn't matter at all. There were still random missions on random planets, only you couldn't explore, that barely changes anything about the urgency thing.

But then, an RPG is an RPG, you can't always keep the momentum (and that's you to choose, you can ignore every side quest in both ME games). Look Oblivion, it was urgent, yet you could do countless of quests outside the main one. Look at Kotor and plenty of other RPGs. If you want the momentum, why not cut out every side quest? Why not cut this or that. I don't play ME for a shooter, I play ME for an RPG, to be in a different world and do things, I'd rather not be limited. If you thing it goes against the momentum, just don't do these quests.

Personally, I found quite a bit of these planets to be fine, they could be better, but I thought all was okay. And like I said, it's not because it wasn't flawless in ME1 that it can't be better, it's not because you didn't like the thing at all that it can't be good. Saying it shouldn't be in because of poor level design is a bit stupid to me honestly, they just have to improve no? Bioware completely dropped the ball by scrapping something off instead of fixing it.

Anyway, it seems you don't even like open-world RPGs anyway, so I'm not sure if I should bother. You know, I like desolate places and such, I like pretty much any kind of places, adds different atmospheres and variety, no?

[Sidney]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Except ME2 asks you to play the errand boy too. Don't tell me doing loyalty missions - for 12 squad members! - wasn't against the sense of urgency. Surely you can do that mission without earning their loyalty. It was a weak plot device anyway, some of them were pretty fun, but hardly fit in.

The difference being that in ME2 you were waiting for a collector attack, or to get intel or to decode the Omega 4 relay, just little things like that improve the feel.

Still, nothing would help the MAKO levels because, in the end, these are empty dull places.

[ZLurps]

Something that makes ME series games great for me is that they break out from traditional genre barriers. Especially ME1 has many "sandbox" game elements. Grand Theft Auto series games are examples of "sandbox" games.

One thing that this has to do with ME is that in GTA games there were sort of achievements like, like collecting 100 hidden packages. It was optional and I never bothered collecting packages when I played GTA games it's optional thing to do.

Also collecting Turian insignias, Medallions of One or killing Thresher Maws etc. in ME1 is optional, nobody needs to do them, just land Mako, check the map, go to plot point and done. Hammerhead missions in ME2, well, nobody is forced to download and play them at all.



However say Prothean data discs had other functions than giving player money. They were part that create historical backdrop to ME universe, make it feel like a living universe with items player can discover from it's past. I still think it was a great design choice from BioWare to add small details that add to atmosphere without player barely noticing and much more believable than some 80's mafia guy delivering pizzas.



I didn't visited on GTA forums much because... they kinda had their own kind of twist but what I don't recall I ever saw anyone demanding hidden package, taxi driver or whatever optional missions types dropped because they "can't".

[Evil Johnny 666]

Sidney wrote...

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Except ME2 asks you to play the errand boy too. Don't tell me doing loyalty missions - for 12 squad members! - wasn't against the sense of urgency. Surely you can do that mission without earning their loyalty. It was a weak plot device anyway, some of them were pretty fun, but hardly fit in.

The difference being that in ME2 you were waiting for a collector attack, or to get intel or to decode the Omega 4 relay, just little things like that improve the feel.

Still, nothing would help the MAKO levels because, in the end, these are empty dull places.

You were getting your squad in the meantime. You can get through the game without doing a single loyalty mission.

Well then I guess you don't like the concept at all. But other people do, so I don't see why Bioware should scrap the whole thing completely. After all, no one like everything in a game, the best is to cater to the most people possible. Just drive straight to the point of interest if you want to do these missions that much, but from what you said, it seems like you could easily ignore them. I don't get why you're here besides breaking people's fun.

[ZLurps]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...
...snip... Yes, some planets were too alike, but that doesn't mean they were all alike. Some had quite different geographies, some had more random mountains, other had more "paths", others had more plateaux, etc. Some where on moons, some were volcanic, etc. I'm not saying they couldn't be improved, on the contrary, but dismissing the whole exploration thing based on poor level design is weak. It's not because you found the level design to be poor that it can't be good.

Very true, there were some amazing sceneries in ME1. Some planets really felt like cold, hostile space, say Luna and some were graphically amazing, driving on red sand dunes giant red star lighting your way is something I miss from ME1.

There were also lot of things to do on some planets, I recall one had 3 bases, missile turrets for defence, 2 Thresher Maws and ancient relics in addition to minerals. On some planets you there were signs of battle, bodies of shot mercenaries etc. Those all made ME1 feel like you are not alone in the universe.
 

[ZachForrest]

Have absolutely no problem with a bit of exploration, i like exploring. Infact i explored all the planets, just in case there was something interesting to get out of it. (there wasn't).



There's no escaping the planets were tediously similar and featureless.



There's a reason they took it out.

[E-MailA.K.A.Mr.Fox]

Planet Exploration needs to come back, and in my opinion, having some ME1 type mako worlds, and some noveria and feros type ones as well, and even some like the hammerhead mainly on Overloard DLC type missions would be welcomed, i love explorations, some little known facts about ME1 uncharted worlds that in some areas there where some rare encounters that rewarded you for exploring, and in ME2 seemed to punish you.

[Arc Collins]

I loved the Mako. And by god I loved all the planets with their alien skies and beautiful terrain. But that one planet with the Cerberus presence on it, and you know exactly which one I'm talking about. . . That one planet was made to make the players suffer. I could spend hours driving around on some of the others and not get bored, but that damn beehive-mountain hell should have never existed.



Seriously though, I want my Mako back. And I want a bumpersticker of that road sign for my real car.

[Evil Johnny 666]

ZachForrest wrote...

There's a reason they took it out.

Because you would scrap any flawed feature? From that logic, I wouldn't have made a second ME game.

If you think all planets were identical, we didn't play the same game.

Arc Collins wrote...

I loved the Mako. And by god I loved
all the planets with their alien skies and beautiful terrain. But that
one planet with the Cerberus presence on it, and you know exactly which
one I'm talking about. . . That one planet was made to make the players
suffer. I could spend hours driving around on some of the others and not
get bored, but that damn beehive-mountain hell should have never
existed.

Seriously though, I want my Mako back. And I want a bumpersticker of that road sign for my real car.

Agreed 100%.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 29 janvier 2011 - 10:33 .

[ZachForrest]

Johnny, you have no grasp of logic whatsoever. It'd be best if you just stopped trying to use it.

[E-MailA.K.A.Mr.Fox]

The point of ME series is to not be linear like other RPGs, yet ME2 seemed to be geared torward more linear gameplay, thats one of the disappointing aspects for me in 2.

[Evil Johnny 666]

mangeo wrote...

Hey man just give it a break you are obviously dealing with an "I wont stop arguing untill i am right" person...
Besides the whole RPG format doesnt seem to be his bag anyway due to the fact that an RPG is supossed to have
all of those things he seems to hate....

Yeah, that's what I'll do.

ZachForrest wrote...

Johnny, you have no grasp of logic whatsoever. It'd be best if you just stopped trying to use it.

[Sidney]

mangeo wrote...
Hey man just give it a break you are obviously dealing with an "I wont stop arguing untill i am right" person...
Besides the whole RPG format doesnt seem to be his bag anyway due to the fact that an RPG is supossed to have
all of those things he seems to hate....

...as oppsed to the guy who agrees with you who is reasonable. Discussion boards shouldn't be a place for discussion? Good know.

RPG's  "have" to have exploration? BG2 doesn't really have exploration - you just zap out to the troll castle and back for example. All the clearing the black from BG1 is gone and all that is left is dungeon crawling. KOTOR doesn't have much open worldism - recall all the low walls that channelled you across the surface. I'd think both of those are pretty much RPG's. DAO, no exploration in that puppy either as they use exactly the ME2 mechanism of plopping you down right where the action is gonna happen. Not an RPG?

That  wandering feel is something some people do better - Bethesda - and while I'm not a big fan of an advanced graphical walking simulator their worlds are a lot more alive than anything Bioware did - now their plots are as dead as the UCW's in ME1 as a flip side so there's a trade off.

[rft]

I'd rather the hammerhead...

[SudsyPatriarch]

i´d love to drive around with the Mako again =) in some better environments though...

And planet scanning can ***************** **** *****. Instead i would personally see some sort of diplomacy/trading resources etc, with some depth.