42 réponses à ce sujet

[C Barchuk]

I'm getting ready to play a new module I just downloaded that starts at level 10.  I have Vordens Hero Creator. My question is how do I know how much gold he gets as well as what kind of gear to give him thats appropriate for a level 10?

[bealzebub]

according to a chart I got from a dm guide somewhere, 10th level gets 49,000 gp. Volume II of nwn2_toolset_notes, "http://nwvault.ign.c...s.Detail&id=120",  lists magic items by level range.

[nicethugbert]

A commonly expressed rule of thumb for enhancements is +1 per five levels. So you would start getting +2 enhancement at level 5, +3 enhancement at level 10, +4 enhancement at level 15, +5 enhancement at level 20.



But modules seems to be ahead of that. Spells follow various enhancement scheduals. So, I may have remembered it wrong. But, no matter, you'll get items from the modules anyway. So, at least you don't start off naked and you'll be selling or handing those down soon anyway.

[kamal_]

The Forgotten Realms Weave character creator will give appropriate gold and let you shop at level appropriate stores.

[NWN DM]

A 10th level PC is "lower level"?

[Arkalezth]

Which module?

@NTB: I've heard of that rule, but +1 each 4 levels, as the spell Greater Magic Weapon. So, +0 at 1, +1 at 4, +2 at 8, etc.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 27 janvier 2011 - 01:41 .

[C Barchuk]

Thanks for the response guys. The module is Misery Stone and my bad, starting level looks like level 9. I just finished SoZ and I've been trying out some different builds so now I'm just going through the vault and playing through some adventures that look pretty fun to play.



NWN DM, I love your avatar by the way. I laugh out loud everytime I see it. But yea I guess I meant lower level compared to a level 20 or higher.

[C Barchuk]

NWN DM or anybody for that matter, I was checking out your sig and clicked on the NWN2 Northern Cormyr. What exactly is a NWN2 gaming world? Is it basically multi player? Sorry if that's a stupid question. I've only played single player with NWN. Just curious. Anyways thanks again

[Arkalezth]

C Barchuk wrote...

Thanks for the response guys. The module is Misery Stone and my bad, starting level looks like level 9.

You can level and equip your character at the beginning of Misery Stone, no need to use a different module for it. The starting items there are already balanced, I don't remember if +1 or +2.

[dunniteowl]

You know, I'm one of those weirdos you hear about that doesn't care about making a "balanced" build. I make characters. So with that firmly in mind (and go ahead, call me crazy, nuts, goofy, whatever) I suggest you take feats and skills and improve stats for a character that "fits" an idealized concept as opposed to just number crunching for balance.

I know for a lot of folks today that sounds just crazy, but I thought I'd toss that into the mix. You know, just in case you might be willing to give it a whirl without regard to uberizing or optimizing or min/maxing your way to the top. I find all that other stuff (at least for me) gets in the way of enjoying the game. It's not like I don't want good weapons or decent skills or to be able to hack or spell my way out of the challenges that come before me in game. Seriously. And it's not like I don't know a lot of that stuff and have it sitting there at the back of my mind to allow me to make (quite possibly) decent to good choices in my character creation process. I just don't really find it all that much fun to deal with and so I tend to be rather impulsive and NOW about that sort of stuff.



And Misery Stone? Good choice. Look for me in the graveyard. Hee hee hee.



dunniteowl

[C Barchuk]

lol thanks for the feedback. I'm actually a big fan of powerbuilds normally but since there isn't alot of high level adventures out there I figured I would try out some of the lower level ones. But your right in many ways, I should just play the game and character how I see it. Thanks for the help again. The NWN community has really been a big help. I'm glad I came back to the game.

[nicethugbert]

Dungeon Eternal X2 is a good PW to play power builds on.

[kamal_]

C Barchuk wrote...

NWN DM or anybody for that matter, I was checking out your sig and clicked on the NWN2 Northern Cormyr. What exactly is a NWN2 gaming world? Is it basically multi player? Sorry if that's a stupid question. I've only played single player with NWN. Just curious. Anyways thanks again

He runs a campaign as a DM. Like PnP.

[C Barchuk]

How does that work within the game. Are we using vent or something as he tells the plot and such? Sorry just trying to wrap my brain around it.

[NWN DM]

It involves me spending an unheathy amount of time in the toolset between games.

Then I load the server and the people playing connect and I DM like PnP.

Communication is standard through the in-game chat channels. People have from time-to-time suggested voice chat, but frankly, I've been doing this since 2003 and chat works fine.

[Arkalezth]

C Barchuk wrote...

lol thanks for the feedback. I'm actually a big fan of powerbuilds normally but since there isn't alot of high level adventures out there I figured I would try out some of the lower level ones. But your right in many ways, I should just play the game and character how I see it. Thanks for the help again. The NWN community has really been a big help. I'm glad I came back to the game.

Yeah, I'd like to see more high level modules too. I'm not particularly a fan of high levels, but starting always at level 1 gets old sometimes. I'd like more modules for characters of level 8 or so, where some classes starts to differentiate from the others.

I'm also a module player, so I'm not interested in epic builds either. If you want to take a look, I've posted a bunch of level 10 builds here: nwn2db.com

And I agree that you don't need powerbuilds, but nothing stops you from making a RP character who is also good in combat.

[nicethugbert]

Arkalezth wrote...

Which module?

@NTB: I've heard of that rule, but +1 each 4 levels, as the spell Greater Magic Weapon. So, +0 at 1, +1 at 4, +2 at 8, etc.

I think it would be 1 + 1 per 4 levels to be precise, which I was not when I mentioned +1 per 5 levels.  I don't remember any modules where you have to wait until level 4 for your first +1 item.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 28 janvier 2011 - 12:40 .

[Arkalezth]

I've seen every approach in modules.

IIRC, in the ECB II it was +1 per 4: +5 for 20th level characters, +7 for 28-30th ones.

[manageri]

It makes no sense to start at level 1 with +1 weapons, why would every adventurer everywhere automatically have magical loot before they've even killed their first rat?

[Arkalezth]

Exactly. Mundane weapons also exist. And that would make some spells useless.

[painofdungeoneternal]

Lol, i love it when people say magic makes no sense.



Balance is not really about what makes sense, it's about what kind of world do you want to play in. +1 Items are perfectly fine in most stories, that magic dagger in the average fantasy story often is given to the character prior to killing any rats. A single +1 item does not affect balance.



The level you get items, and the overall melee bonus determines if you get an advantage playing a melee or caster character, and if the build even matters if every benefit you find in builds you can just buy at a store after you manage to kill that dragon and take their horde of loot.



To me items are HOW you balance things. You do not use hard and fast rules, they are a throttle and you dole them out to adjust things as needed. If you have a powerbuilder with a fighter, or folks who do crazy clerics, then you probably need to hand out a staff of magi or some bracers of dexterity to help out that wizard and rogue some.



On a PW they are far more critical. Having too much power in items causes a problem for the developer team, while having too little power in items can cause problems for the players. Since the developers having problems actually hurts both them and the players, it is wise to dole things out slowly, wait to see the impact, and then add some more, especially items which only make sense if used by a single class.



One thing i have learned though, and this is from real world experience in NWN1. The magic spell cap of +5 is adjustable via script and can fix many balance issues. I actually have an option so it's easy to modify in my systems. To balance melee and casters the magic spell cap should be the same as for items or a single point lower. Note the +5 cap is designed for a 1-20 level system, and in the high magic world of faerun is described in the official rules. So if you adjust the max bonus on items, you should look at also adjusting the cap on spells as well.

[Arkalezth]

True, a +1 dagger won't make a character overpowered, but not every fantasy character has a full set of magic equipment at home.

We can discuss what makes sense and what doesn't for 10 pages (I hope not), but this is about balance. That said, no matter the quality of the items, there will always be powerbuilds, and classes that benefit more than others.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 28 janvier 2011 - 01:08 .

[manageri]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

Lol, i love it when people say magic makes no sense.

Balance is not really about what makes sense, it's about what kind of world do you want to play in. +1 Items are perfectly fine in most stories, that magic dagger in the average fantasy story often is given to the character prior to killing any rats. A single +1 item does not affect balance.

I wasn't talking about balance at all. I meant it makes no sense to have a guideline, and guidelines are not about single exceptional items like your dagger btw, where everyone has magical weapons (in the FR campaign setting that is, your own world can have every weapon ever forged spontaneously become +9 if you want).

Modifié par manageri, 28 janvier 2011 - 01:31 .

[dunniteowl]

Oh, I don't know, manageri, I think it makes sense to have a guideline as long as you don't let that guideline become the Written In Stone Rules as many are wont to do over time.



I think the real point here is that we're talking about making a balanced character for playing a module, not about the balancing act of making the module (whether that be SP or MP/PW) work out for the players. And, of course, it's good to remember that magic, depending on the game environment, can go from spartan to monty haul and all points between.



Inside of that, any character has to be able to achieve some semblance of survivability and playability within those confines, which is irrespective (on the whole) of the overall scarcity or abundance of magic. I think that's what our OP is shooting for here.



dunniteowl

[manageri]

crap, editing fail, sorry. I meant to say it makes no sense to have a guideline where everyone has magical weapons.