Hello All,
I thought I might take this opportunity to invite some feedback on my blog regarding puzzles. It can also serve as an introduction to my module whch is still being written, called, Better The Demon.
The blog post describing some puzzles I am working on and asking for feedback can be found here: http://worldofalthea...me-puzzles.html
The blog site itself can be found in my signature, but will go to the latest post, which just happens to be asking about puzzles at the moment.
Please drop by and join the weekly updates and give your feedback. I don't promise I can include everything, but I do like to pay attention to detail and listen to any potential audience.
Many Thanks.
Lance.
Do You Like Puzzles?
Débuté par
Lance Botelle
, janv. 27 2011 07:52
Retour en haut
#2
Guest_Chaos Wielder_*
Posté 27 janvier 2011 - 10:20
Guest_Chaos Wielder_*
Guest_Chaos Wielder_*
-
- Guests
I like puzzles! 
Now, actually, that's with a caveat: they need to make sense in the game context. Here's a bad example. In Hordes of the Underdark, the Mindflayer City has these doors in their inner sanctum which require you to solve basic math problems(like find the prime number, etc). These *were* puzzles, but they made almost no sense in the game context. Why would the illithid have them? Who installed them? Why? I mean, think about it, the only things that *could* make it to their inner sanctum were either adventurer's, such as yourself, or mind immune creatures(golems). So the idea that they needed math problems to keep foes out is a bit hard to swallow. "Here's the idea Yggthulas: number doors. They'll be sure to keep our enemies out. I mean, we're spawned from the depths of a star millions of lightyears away, but even I'm afraid of middle-school math."
That all said...I think your puzzles look like fun. Do you plan on releasing the systems onto the vault? I understand a builder does, and should, keep some things on their own, but I guess it's a question.
Now, actually, that's with a caveat: they need to make sense in the game context. Here's a bad example. In Hordes of the Underdark, the Mindflayer City has these doors in their inner sanctum which require you to solve basic math problems(like find the prime number, etc). These *were* puzzles, but they made almost no sense in the game context. Why would the illithid have them? Who installed them? Why? I mean, think about it, the only things that *could* make it to their inner sanctum were either adventurer's, such as yourself, or mind immune creatures(golems). So the idea that they needed math problems to keep foes out is a bit hard to swallow. "Here's the idea Yggthulas: number doors. They'll be sure to keep our enemies out. I mean, we're spawned from the depths of a star millions of lightyears away, but even I'm afraid of middle-school math."
That all said...I think your puzzles look like fun. Do you plan on releasing the systems onto the vault? I understand a builder does, and should, keep some things on their own, but I guess it's a question.
#3
Posté 27 janvier 2011 - 10:39
DJ Doc
-
- Members
- 77 messages
I hate puzzles in RPGs because it's pure meta gaming to me. I solve that oh so clever puzzle not my Character with its skills.
For me what Kamal did in PoE with party skill checks to unlock a riddle portal that's how it should be done.
For me what Kamal did in PoE with party skill checks to unlock a riddle portal that's how it should be done.
#4
Guest_Chaos Wielder_*
Posté 27 janvier 2011 - 11:08
Guest_Chaos Wielder_*
Guest_Chaos Wielder_*
-
- Guests
In all fairness, so many things could be chalked up to "meta-gaming" that the criticism doesn't seem too strong. Has your character ever seen a beholder before? Should they cower in terror at all moments from these things? The distinction between the PC and the player isn't a clear line at all. I think it's an interesting subject, sure, but perhaps not for this thread.
#5
Posté 27 janvier 2011 - 11:10
kamal_
-
- Members
- 5 250 messages
I've been following his blog, and OP will have ways around required puzzling. A different solution than mine, but a good one.DJ Doc wrote...
I hate puzzles in RPGs because it's pure meta gaming to me. I solve that oh so clever puzzle not my Character with its skills.
For me what Kamal did in PoE with party skill checks to unlock a riddle portal that's how it should be done.
I'm not a puzzle fan (which is why I did what I did) but some people like them. OP's look very well put together, so people that like them will like these.
#6
Posté 27 janvier 2011 - 11:25
M. Rieder
-
- Members
- 2 530 messages
Lance, those puzzles look amazing! Really spectacular work, as usual! I enjoy puzzles and games in games I play. The ones you posted on your blog were interesting, I especially liked the "singing stones" idea. I also enjoy more involved ones that may involve logic, and multiple steps and even levels. I recall fondly a logic puzzle in one of the XP's, called "devils and demons" or something like that, sorry, can't remember the particulars. I like really hard riddles too.
#7
Posté 27 janvier 2011 - 11:46
PJ156
-
- Members
- 2 983 messages
Any really well turned out content like the puzzles you have in the blog go down well with me.
I am not a huge fan of puzzles however and like CW I think they need to be in context or I lose interest.
Games on the other hand are different. A simulated card game of roulete game etc I love. These tend to be sideshows, something you can dip in and out of. As a scripter you can still display your skill and enjoy the challenge of creation but you are not placing unbelievable and sometimes frustrating obstacles in the path of the player. If the puzzles were presented in this way, as games if you like. Then that would make me a happy camper.
The risk (and having read your blog I know you are not in this camp) is that you risk trying to outsmart the player with your wonderful puzzles, when actually they just want to be entertained. I read about your trying to have a way round the puzzle should the player so choose and I think this a good idea.
For me a good example of a puzzle is having a number of levers that have to be in a certain pattern to unlock a door. Theoreticaly anyone having to use that door will know the code but a first timer must work it out.
The floor patterns in the Umberlee temple in SoZ was a bad puzzle IMO, difficult to do with no hints local to the puzzle andpointless in the context of the game as far as I could see.
PJ
I am not a huge fan of puzzles however and like CW I think they need to be in context or I lose interest.
Games on the other hand are different. A simulated card game of roulete game etc I love. These tend to be sideshows, something you can dip in and out of. As a scripter you can still display your skill and enjoy the challenge of creation but you are not placing unbelievable and sometimes frustrating obstacles in the path of the player. If the puzzles were presented in this way, as games if you like. Then that would make me a happy camper.
The risk (and having read your blog I know you are not in this camp) is that you risk trying to outsmart the player with your wonderful puzzles, when actually they just want to be entertained. I read about your trying to have a way round the puzzle should the player so choose and I think this a good idea.
For me a good example of a puzzle is having a number of levers that have to be in a certain pattern to unlock a door. Theoreticaly anyone having to use that door will know the code but a first timer must work it out.
The floor patterns in the Umberlee temple in SoZ was a bad puzzle IMO, difficult to do with no hints local to the puzzle andpointless in the context of the game as far as I could see.
PJ
Modifié par PJ156, 27 janvier 2011 - 11:56 .
#8
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 01:33
dunniteowl
-
- Members
- 1 559 messages
What Chaos and PJ156 said for me. Nothing more need be elaborated.
Believe it!
dno
Believe it!
dno
#9
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 02:35
M. Rieder
-
- Members
- 2 530 messages
PJ156 wrote...
The floor patterns in the Umberlee temple in SoZ was a bad puzzle IMO, difficult to do with no hints local to the puzzle andpointless in the context of the game as far as I could see.
PJ
It's really funny that you mention this as a bad example of a puzzle, because I was going to give this as an example of a good puzzle. I see what you mean about pointless in the context, though. I think I just liked the shiny lights and sounds.
Modifié par M. Rieder, 28 janvier 2011 - 02:36 .
#10
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 02:40
kamal_
-
- Members
- 5 250 messages
If that puzzle had been in the temple of a music god (since the solution required matching musical notes), it would have fit the context.M. Rieder wrote...
PJ156 wrote...
The floor patterns in the Umberlee temple in SoZ was a bad puzzle IMO, difficult to do with no hints local to the puzzle andpointless in the context of the game as far as I could see.
PJ
It's really funny that you mention this as a bad example of a puzzle, because I was going to give this as an example of a good puzzle. I see what you mean about pointless in the context, though. I think I just liked the shiny lights and sounds.
#11
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 02:45
Eguintir Eligard
-
- Members
- 1 832 messages
Yep.I kinda find button/lever ones annoying though. I like a good old fashioned riddle.
And here's how you make it worth the players skills and human wit (borrowed from Islander):
start with say 8 responses for wisdom below 8 and cut it down by one response as your wisdom goes up 2 points.
And here's how you make it worth the players skills and human wit (borrowed from Islander):
start with say 8 responses for wisdom below 8 and cut it down by one response as your wisdom goes up 2 points.
#12
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 02:55
Lance Botelle
-
- Members
- 1 480 messages
Hi All,
Thanks for all your great feedback. It is much appreciated and I may cut and paste some of the comments and add them as a reply in my blog for convenience, as well as a link back to this thread.
One thing that comes across to me is that attitudes to puzzles are both personal and according to one's frame of mind at the time. As Chaos Wielder says, I do think a puzzle should make sense in the context of the game, but translation of that is something that may be very subjective. For example, I have often referred to some of my puzzles as "special locks", which require the player to "crack the mechanism". Now, "cracking the mechanism" makes sense in the context that the problem to bypass is a lock, but the means by which I introduce the method to do the cracking is very open to personal interpretation. At what point does the puzzle/game become too far removed from the game context? Furthermore, as Chaos Wielder points out in a later response to DJ Doc, there is an inherent problem with RPG where the player is enacting a role through their PC: How would a PC actually "see" a magical rune problem? To a degree, I believe that wherever magic (or its futuristic technical equivalence is involved) we do have to recognise that designing actual methods of interpretation of such devices is impossible, and that the puzzles we design are a mere representation of the kind of difficulty that the PC is having with the object they are interacting. The bottom line is, how does one judge when a puzzle is too far removed from the context of the game to appear orchestrated or irrelevant?
DJ Doc's point that puzzles are only testing the player's skills and not the PC's is still true, but as Chaos Wielder points out, this should be viewed in the context of the game as a whole. After all, while there are rules that govern to a degree how well a PC can perform a certain action, it is ultimately the player in control of the PC that determines how well they fair in any event. And who is to say that a certain interactive problem (a puzzle) is not testing an aspect of the PC that cannot be explained by attributes alone? After all, the rules to D&D are designed as a "guide" and are not set in stone. However, I do not want to be unfair to the point raised and is why I also introduced a new feat called the Expert Decoder. While this feat does not mean the PC can completely bypass a puzzle, it does give the PC extra "knowledge" of a situation (represented by a puzzle) that other PCs do not have. So, in this sense, all other issues being equal, the PC with the extra feat will have more chance of solving a puzzle due to their abilities. I think the real fly in the ointment when it comes to puzzles, however, is when the player just does not like puzzles for one reason or another ... or perhaps they do not believe their own ability is equal to the next player? (Meaning puzzles can divide a player's chances to succeed or fail in a module.) Furthermore, I like to think I have addressed the more ominous side of meta-gaming, and that is where a player can gain an advantage by "reloading a game" after finding the solution to a puzzle and thereby bypassing any cost to its solving. Reloading in my module will not help the player: they will still have to pay the costs of solving the puzzle even if they now know the answer. As Kamal says, I hope most people will enjoy the way these puzzles have been put together and appreciate the different routes one can take to either solve or bypass them altogether.
Mat, I am still thinking about the "Singing Gems" puzzle at the moment. I also like the idea of it, especially as an "Elf Lock" or something along those lines. After all, if dwarves can have their Rune Locks, it seems only fair that the elves would have something.
PJ156 touches on an interesting point: knowing what to do when we encounter a puzzle. I believe I recall the puzzle they mention and had similar misgivings in that I did not know what I was trying to achieve. I understood the problem after a little experimentation, but because the problem started with a bit of a hit and miss affair, I did not feel "involved". I did not feel as though there was a history or meaning for the puzzle in the first place. Now, as a builder, I know that there is no reason to give a player a meaning for something, but I believe this is where the module designer does need to be a little more forgiving and upfront with the information because their PC is a part of the world and not the player. Therefore, the player needs to be given instructions of what they are trying to achieve because their PC would, perhaps, instinctively know. To be clear here: They would not know the answer, but would know what they are trying to achieve. I know this may be open to debate (why should the PC know?), but I believe this lack of information is what can cause players to feel as though the puzzle is orchestrated and not really have a place. I believe it is much better to give a small background history for the puzzle and what needs to be done than to leave the player completely in the dark about its presence. And this might explain why some people enjoy this puzzle, while others may not: It may not be a problem with the puzzle, per se, but its setting, which is what Kamal also points out and dunniteowl says succinctly.
I end on the same point as I started where Eguintir shows an interest in riddles over lever puzzles, which PJ156 enjoys: There are obviously personal tastes and preferences.
Thanks again.
Lance.
Thanks for all your great feedback. It is much appreciated and I may cut and paste some of the comments and add them as a reply in my blog for convenience, as well as a link back to this thread.
One thing that comes across to me is that attitudes to puzzles are both personal and according to one's frame of mind at the time. As Chaos Wielder says, I do think a puzzle should make sense in the context of the game, but translation of that is something that may be very subjective. For example, I have often referred to some of my puzzles as "special locks", which require the player to "crack the mechanism". Now, "cracking the mechanism" makes sense in the context that the problem to bypass is a lock, but the means by which I introduce the method to do the cracking is very open to personal interpretation. At what point does the puzzle/game become too far removed from the game context? Furthermore, as Chaos Wielder points out in a later response to DJ Doc, there is an inherent problem with RPG where the player is enacting a role through their PC: How would a PC actually "see" a magical rune problem? To a degree, I believe that wherever magic (or its futuristic technical equivalence is involved) we do have to recognise that designing actual methods of interpretation of such devices is impossible, and that the puzzles we design are a mere representation of the kind of difficulty that the PC is having with the object they are interacting. The bottom line is, how does one judge when a puzzle is too far removed from the context of the game to appear orchestrated or irrelevant?
DJ Doc's point that puzzles are only testing the player's skills and not the PC's is still true, but as Chaos Wielder points out, this should be viewed in the context of the game as a whole. After all, while there are rules that govern to a degree how well a PC can perform a certain action, it is ultimately the player in control of the PC that determines how well they fair in any event. And who is to say that a certain interactive problem (a puzzle) is not testing an aspect of the PC that cannot be explained by attributes alone? After all, the rules to D&D are designed as a "guide" and are not set in stone. However, I do not want to be unfair to the point raised and is why I also introduced a new feat called the Expert Decoder. While this feat does not mean the PC can completely bypass a puzzle, it does give the PC extra "knowledge" of a situation (represented by a puzzle) that other PCs do not have. So, in this sense, all other issues being equal, the PC with the extra feat will have more chance of solving a puzzle due to their abilities. I think the real fly in the ointment when it comes to puzzles, however, is when the player just does not like puzzles for one reason or another ... or perhaps they do not believe their own ability is equal to the next player? (Meaning puzzles can divide a player's chances to succeed or fail in a module.) Furthermore, I like to think I have addressed the more ominous side of meta-gaming, and that is where a player can gain an advantage by "reloading a game" after finding the solution to a puzzle and thereby bypassing any cost to its solving. Reloading in my module will not help the player: they will still have to pay the costs of solving the puzzle even if they now know the answer. As Kamal says, I hope most people will enjoy the way these puzzles have been put together and appreciate the different routes one can take to either solve or bypass them altogether.
Mat, I am still thinking about the "Singing Gems" puzzle at the moment. I also like the idea of it, especially as an "Elf Lock" or something along those lines. After all, if dwarves can have their Rune Locks, it seems only fair that the elves would have something.
PJ156 touches on an interesting point: knowing what to do when we encounter a puzzle. I believe I recall the puzzle they mention and had similar misgivings in that I did not know what I was trying to achieve. I understood the problem after a little experimentation, but because the problem started with a bit of a hit and miss affair, I did not feel "involved". I did not feel as though there was a history or meaning for the puzzle in the first place. Now, as a builder, I know that there is no reason to give a player a meaning for something, but I believe this is where the module designer does need to be a little more forgiving and upfront with the information because their PC is a part of the world and not the player. Therefore, the player needs to be given instructions of what they are trying to achieve because their PC would, perhaps, instinctively know. To be clear here: They would not know the answer, but would know what they are trying to achieve. I know this may be open to debate (why should the PC know?), but I believe this lack of information is what can cause players to feel as though the puzzle is orchestrated and not really have a place. I believe it is much better to give a small background history for the puzzle and what needs to be done than to leave the player completely in the dark about its presence. And this might explain why some people enjoy this puzzle, while others may not: It may not be a problem with the puzzle, per se, but its setting, which is what Kamal also points out and dunniteowl says succinctly.
I end on the same point as I started where Eguintir shows an interest in riddles over lever puzzles, which PJ156 enjoys: There are obviously personal tastes and preferences.
Thanks again.
Lance.
Modifié par Lance Botelle, 28 janvier 2011 - 03:05 .
#13
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 04:24
DJ Doc
-
- Members
- 77 messages
kamal_ wrote...
If that puzzle had been in the temple of a music god (since the solution required matching musical notes), it would have fit the context.M. Rieder wrote...
PJ156 wrote...
The floor patterns in the Umberlee temple in SoZ was a bad puzzle IMO, difficult to do with no hints local to the puzzle andpointless in the context of the game as far as I could see.
PJ
It's really funny that you mention this as a bad example of a puzzle, because I was going to give this as an example of a good puzzle. I see what you mean about pointless in the context, though. I think I just liked the shiny lights and sounds.
-contins DA:O spoiler-
Agreed as long as one can assume that a party member is a bard
My point is that every single puzzle I've ever seen in a comercial (and nearly every mod) is just a speed bump for gameplay Spellforce Breath of Winter expansion comes to mind or the hidden Sword in Dragon Age:Origins or the Armor. The Summoning riddle could have been a good one if it's only available for a mage PC. So the only puzzley thing that actually is enjoyable is the fade maze in DA:O
#14
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 04:27
PJ156
-
- Members
- 2 983 messages
Lance Botelle wrote...
I believe it is much better to give a small background history for the puzzle and what needs to be done than to leave the player completely in the dark about its presence.
That's a nice idea. The thought that a puzzle could be introduced to the player long before they reach it (None have passed the door of the singing stones, that's Elven magic.).
Perhaps they may even have an opportunity to research it before going to the dungeon with the locked door, visit an Elf who knows of these things or a master locksmith.
That would help with my peronal preference for context.
PJ
Modifié par PJ156, 28 janvier 2011 - 04:30 .
#15
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 04:56
DJ Doc
-
- Members
- 77 messages
Lance Botelle wrote...
Hi All,
[-snip-]
Furthermore, I like to think I have addressed the more ominous side of meta-gaming, and that is where a player can gain an advantage by "reloading a game" after finding the solution to a puzzle and thereby bypassing any cost to its solving. Reloading in my module will not help the player: they will still have to pay the costs of solving the puzzle even if they now know the answer.
Just to play Devil's advocate here all you do is you replace a low level meta gaming skill with a higher one (aka open it in toolset and read the scripts).
My personal dislike for puzzles (of sorts) is that they are usually used to just strech out playtime (Mass Effect mini games anyone?)
It's also not easy to know how well players will do with that challanges.
For example my father (born '45) couldn't for the sake of his life get that cracking minigame in ME2 done. He once spent 2 hours on one of that locked consoles endresult I did it for him, every single time (we usually play here at my house and his gaming pc is right next to mine).
It's very frustrating for him to the point that he never replayed the game.
It also doesn't help to point out that something is optional in a game I'm the type of player who want's everything e.g. nwn2 oc bargening with a devil
check solve every sidequest check max all convo skills for the sake ofgetting the most out of convos check (yes I play bard most of the time or a very funky multiclass wiz) I also belive that a CN Char should be able to get the most out of a RPG sadly I was forced to play Stoopid Evil (For the Dread Lord of the Keep feat) and Boring Good (for the Warden of the Keep feat) in nwn2 oc but now I'm getting off topic.
Anyway I think you are on the right track with your puzzles (just checked your blog).
Your intention is a different one and I can see how that could work.
I'll give it a spin when it's ready that's for sure.
#16
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 04:58
DJ Doc
-
- Members
- 77 messages
PJ156 wrote...
Lance Botelle wrote...
I believe it is much better to give a small background history for the puzzle and what needs to be done than to leave the player completely in the dark about its presence.
That's a nice idea. The thought that a puzzle could be introduced to the player long before they reach it (None have passed the door of the singing stones, that's Elven magic.).
Perhaps they may even have an opportunity to research it before going to the dungeon with the locked door, visit an Elf who knows of these things or a master locksmith.
That would help with my peronal preference for context.
PJ
Sounds good to me
#17
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 05:11
Lance Botelle
-
- Members
- 1 480 messages
PJ156 wrote...
Lance Botelle wrote...
I believe it is much better to give a small background history for the puzzle and what needs to be done than to leave the player completely in the dark about its presence.
That's a nice idea. The thought that a puzzle could be introduced to the player long before they reach it (None have passed the door of the singing stones, that's Elven magic.).
Perhaps they may even have an opportunity to research it before going to the dungeon with the locked door, visit an Elf who knows of these things or a master locksmith.
That would help with my peronal preference for context.
PJ
Hi PJ,
That's exactly the kind of thing I mean, especially for "one-off" puzzles.
Yet, I would also like to think that even regularly used puzzles (like some of those others I have designed) can also be introduced in ways that allow the player to connect the challenge of the puzzle with the environment or object with which they are interacting. Hence, the Expert Decoder feat alludes to other worldy puzzles that the PC/player can expect to encounter and overcome to gain rewards and/or extra information. i.e. The mechanisms used to create puzzles become part of the world in which the PC/player finds themselves. The ideal is for the player to say, "Oh! I have come across another "dwarf rune ward" that my PC needs to crack before I can get past it", rather than, "Oh! It's another one of those weird stone puzzles that I must play before I can do anything else.".
I suppose the bottom line is to incorporate a puzzle into an environment in such a way that the player alost exects to see such objects and devices as part of the world, rather than an exception, even if they are not very common!
Lance.
#18
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 05:13
Lance Botelle
-
- Members
- 1 480 messages
DUPLICATE POST
Modifié par Lance Botelle, 28 janvier 2011 - 06:22 .
#19
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 05:27
Lance Botelle
-
- Members
- 1 480 messages
DJ Doc wrote...
Lance Botelle wrote...
Hi All,
[-snip-]
Furthermore, I like to think I have addressed the more ominous side of meta-gaming, and that is where a player can gain an advantage by "reloading a game" after finding the solution to a puzzle and thereby bypassing any cost to its solving. Reloading in my module will not help the player: they will still have to pay the costs of solving the puzzle even if they now know the answer.
Just to play Devil's advocate here all you do is you replace a low level meta gaming skill with a higher one (aka open it in toolset and read the scripts).
My personal dislike for puzzles (of sorts) is that they are usually used to just strech out playtime (Mass Effect mini games anyone?)
It's also not easy to know how well players will do with that challanges.
For example my father (born '45) couldn't for the sake of his life get that cracking minigame in ME2 done. He once spent 2 hours on one of that locked consoles endresult I did it for him, every single time (we usually play here at my house and his gaming pc is right next to mine).
It's very frustrating for him to the point that he never replayed the game.
It also doesn't help to point out that something is optional in a game I'm the type of player who want's everything e.g. nwn2 oc bargening with a devil
check solve every sidequest check max all convo skills for the sake ofgetting the most out of convos check (yes I play bard most of the time or a very funky multiclass wiz) I also belive that a CN Char should be able to get the most out of a RPG sadly I was forced to play Stoopid Evil (For the Dread Lord of the Keep feat) and Boring Good (for the Warden of the Keep feat) in nwn2 oc but now I'm getting off topic.
Anyway I think you are on the right track with your puzzles (just checked your blog).
Your intention is a different one and I can see how that could work.
I'll give it a spin when it's ready that's for sure.
Hi DJ Doc,
I totally agree that all I am doing is moving the goal posts of meta-gaming (by scripting). However, I hope that the extra work involved would help deter the temptation to do so. If not, then good luck to them.
As long as they feel the need (and believe their enjoyment would be greater from doing so), then I would not stop them and would even offer a suggestion to help. The point is, it demonstrates that the game is not meant to be played that way (even reloading to bypass a payment) and so I have taken steps to ensure the player knows this as well. I quite liked some of the Mass Effect mini-games.
However ... I also have problems with the hak game in ME2, simply because I am colour-blind and find it hard to do. I must admit, that it was not a game that I thought would work well as a rule and so is not a format I personally will include ... at my current way of thinking. OPTIONAL: By optional, I do not mean that the puzzle can be avoided completely, but that you can acquire something to use to bypass the mechanisms to complete said puzzle instead. In other words, you just do the puzzle a different way .. and according to your preferred style of play. In ME1, you could use Omin-gel to bypass some locks instead of play the puzzle. That sort of thing. The point is, the puzzle cost you something to win something in return, be it omni-gel or time on your part.
ALIGNMENT OFF-TOPIC: This is another interseting topic. I can say, you do end up having to play a good or evil alignment in my module, but can shift from one to the other as you play (although the story of the game would suggest you tend to stay one or the other). It works not unlike the Paragon/Renagade in ME. I do not believe there can actually be a PC that plays according to some of the alignments, even though they are available. Furthermore, the story of my world prehibits the ability to play certain alignments, simply because they do not make sense in the context of the wolrd environment. You will have toplay the module to see what I mean.
GREAT! Good to hear you like the look of the direction I am taking. Please do keep dropping by and posting comments as the more feedback I receive, the greater liklihood I am of designing a module that appeals to more players like yourself.
Lance.
Modifié par Lance Botelle, 28 janvier 2011 - 05:27 .
#20
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 05:54
steelfire_dragon
-
- Members
- 740 messages
Riddles are only good if one, they are kept simple enough so that you don't end up head banginig your ketboard and if you have an alterante route to get by it.
as for liking them. I'm indifferent but as long as its enjoyable I really don't care
as for liking them. I'm indifferent but as long as its enjoyable I really don't care
#21
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 06:00
DJ Doc
-
- Members
- 77 messages
Lance Botelle wrote...
-snip-
I quite liked some of the Mass Effect mini-games.
Hmm honestly I just noticed that this thing was colour coded after reading your comment. I solve it by just matching the formating of that code sniped
there's one other thing that just poped up in my mind.
I wonder how one could account for people who are not english native speakers.
#22
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 06:04
DJ Doc
-
- Members
- 77 messages
steelfire_dragon wrote...
Riddles are only good if one, they are kept simple enough so that you don't end up head banginig your ketboard and if you have an alterante route to get by it.
On the other hand a riddle that's to easy is just a gameplay speedbump (damn that reminds me of those riddler riddles from the Batman tv show with Adam West) :innocent:
#23
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 06:25
Lance Botelle
-
- Members
- 1 480 messages
DJ Doc wrote...
Lance Botelle wrote...
-snip-
I quite liked some of the Mass Effect mini-games.
Hmm honestly I just noticed that this thing was colour coded after reading your comment. I solve it by just matching the formating of that code sniped
there's one other thing that just poped up in my mind.
I wonder how one could account for people who are not english native speakers.
Hi DJ,
Matching the text patterns is how I try to do it now, but the varying colours does make it a little harder for me.
As for translation for other languages ... that's way out of my league.
Lance.
#24
Posté 28 janvier 2011 - 11:42
steelfire_dragon
-
- Members
- 740 messages
DJ Doc wrote...
steelfire_dragon wrote...
Riddles are only good if one, they are kept simple enough so that you don't end up head banginig your ketboard and if you have an alterante route to get by it.
On the other hand a riddle that's to easy is just a gameplay speedbump (damn that reminds me of those riddler riddles from the Batman tv show with Adam West) :innocent:
well sometimes the best riddles, the answer is just there, and if you don't see it, its becuase you looked to closely in it....
I just don't like to spend a long time trying to figure it out as it ends up having me look for a cheat online somewhere
#25
Posté 29 janvier 2011 - 03:47
DJ Doc
-
- Members
- 77 messages
Lance Botelle wrote...
DJ Doc wrote...
Lance Botelle wrote...
-snip-
I quite liked some of the Mass Effect mini-games.
Hmm honestly I just noticed that this thing was colour coded after reading your comment. I solve it by just matching the formating of that code sniped
there's one other thing that just poped up in my mind.
I wonder how one could account for people who are not english native speakers.
Hi DJ,
Matching the text patterns is how I try to do it now, but the varying colours does make it a little harder for me.
As for translation for other languages ... that's way out of my league.
Lance.
Hehe nope translation wasn't on my mind just keeping the english simple should be enough
