150 réponses à ce sujet

[Sentox6]

So I started another playthrough of ME2 recently, and I've been thinking over the main plot in particular. The general consensus back when reviews were flowing in (at least as I recall) was that while the game improved over its predecessor in a number of ways, the main storyline was not one of them.

For anyone with a little time to read, I thoroughly recommend this three part plot analysis of ME2:

Part 1, Part 2, Part 3.

I agree with the majority of what's written there (especially the discussion of the final choice). What interests me is where ME3 will go from here. If the Reapers essentially sail into the galaxy and starting making things go boom, I struggle to conceive a way in which the events of ME2 will have any real non-arbitrary meaning.

[SS Jinn]

Ive skimmed this and this looks like yet another persons vendetta against the ME2 premise/plot/theme/story whatever...

i was quite happy to FOLLOW the games interactions and battles as they presented themselves... these bored critics have somewhat spoiled the fun for me, making ME2 seem like a failure.

I hope ME3 shuts them all up.

[Shadesofsiknas]

Plot? Where?



Catch it before it gets away! We need it for ME3.

[wulf3n]

SS Jinn wrote...
Ive skimmed this and this looks like yet another persons vendetta against the ME2 premise/plot/theme/story whatever...

No just another person realizing that once the initial thrill has worn off, what you're left with isn't as great as you initially thought.

SS Jinn wrote...
i was quite happy to FOLLOW the games interactions and battles as they presented themselves... 

If you like the game that's great but....

SS Jinn wrote...
these bored critics have somewhat spoiled the fun for me, making ME2 seem like a failure.

Why does someone else's opinion matter to you then?

SS Jinn wrote...
I hope ME3 shuts them all up.

That'll just show everyone that ME3 is well written.

Modifié par wulf3n, 27 janvier 2011 - 08:55 .

[wulf3n]

sorry damn internet lagged, and i made a double post

Modifié par wulf3n, 27 janvier 2011 - 08:45 .

[Sentox6]

SS Jinn wrote...

Ive skimmed this and this looks like yet another persons vendetta against the ME2 premise/plot/theme/story whatever...
i was quite happy to FOLLOW the games interactions and battles as they presented themselves... these bored critics have somewhat spoiled the fun for me, making ME2 seem like a failure.
I hope ME3 shuts them all up.

No offense, but based on what you're saying it doesn't seem like plot really matters to you as long as the experience is fun. This doesn't make the criticism any less valid.

I think "vendetta" is overly disingenuous, anyway. Consider the author's parting remarks:

Despite the last ~5,000 words berating the plot, Mass Effect 2 is still
an incredible game. The plot I’ve outlined takes up a very small
portion of your playing time, and the rest is BioWare doing their best
work: Self-contained, character-driven stories. Mass Effect is like the
best season of Star Trek ever: The premiere was lacking and the finale
was a slap in the forehead, but everything else was stellar.

Modifié par Sentox6, 27 janvier 2011 - 08:37 .

[Phaedon]

Wow, they have evolved from posting unsuccessful youtube videos to editors in websites!

[TK Dude]

Phaedon wrote...

Wow, they have evolved from posting unsuccessful youtube videos to editors in websites!

You think everyone believes ME2 is a godsend? 

Modifié par TK Dude, 27 janvier 2011 - 08:47 .

[Phaedon]

TK Dude wrote...
You think everyone believes ME2 is a godsend? 

I believe that non-constructive criticism and constant nitpicking, biased views and baseless arguments are laughable. Other than that, everyone has their own opinion. Who said that I prefered ME2's plot?

[Fixers0]

Good, I also heavily suggest to everyone to Search for a six part Mass effect 2 plot analysis on youtube.

[Fatex3]

A lot of us love Mass Effect 2, but also understand how the plot was flawed in many ways.

[SS Jinn]

No offense but i did not say the points were not valid nor did i dismiss any of these critical views,

they are well presented and are indeed true.



watching/listening to and reading about these flaws was just a moment of realisation i wish i hadnt experienced (thats why my initial reaction to this post was not an enthusiastic one). My own opinion... i know u and the others just want more sense to become of it in the future... im not a critic, just a fan... each unto his own.

[TK Dude]

Phaedon wrote...

TK Dude wrote...
You think everyone believes ME2 is a godsend? 

I believe that non-constructive criticism and constant nitpicking, biased views and baseless arguments are laughable. Other than that, everyone has their own opinion. Who said that I prefered ME2's plot?

Don't know about you, but the plot was flawed in ME2 IMO. Of course, it didn't stop me from enjoying other things in the game.

[Phaedon]

TK Dude wrote...
Don't know about you, but the plot was flawed in ME2 IMO. Of course, it didn't stop me from enjoying other things in the game.

Flawed, yes, if you use the original meaning of the word. ME1's was flawed too, but maybe not as much, imo. Comments like  'Lolzomg me2 had no plot' or 'ME2's plot was an absolute joke' are not to be taken seriously. That does in no way that the critic in question is right or unbiased, however. 

[Spartas Husky]

There was a plot in ME2?... 90% of the game is recruiting your team. 10% is fighting collectors. Not exact numbers of course but. Based on the length we spent recruiting rather than finding out more about the deeper problem of the invasion... or convincing states to help. I say ME2 has no real plot. But thats just my opinion. Still good game.

[Phaedon]

Spartas Husky wrote...

There was a plot in ME2?... 90% of the game is recruiting your team. 10% is fighting collectors. Not exact numbers of course but. Based on the length we spent recruiting rather than finding out more about the deeper problem of the invasion... or convincing states to help. I say ME2 has no real plot. But thats just my opinion. Still good game.

And therefore, the collect your team plot is not a plot!!!! 

[TK Dude]

Phaedon wrote...

TK Dude wrote...
Don't know about you, but the plot was flawed in ME2 IMO. Of course, it didn't stop me from enjoying other things in the game.

Flawed, yes, if you use the original meaning of the word. ME1's was flawed too, but maybe not as much, imo. Comments like  'Lolzomg me2 had no plot' or 'ME2's plot was an absolute joke' are not to be taken seriously. That does in no way that the critic in question is right or unbiased, however. 

I suppose. These days it seems most people not willing to give good reasons about why they hate something about the game and stuff.  
I felt the critic in that article did a good job on the analysis, he acknowledges the flaws of the plot while still admitting that ME2 has great gameplay.

[Spartas Husky]

Phaedon wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

There was a plot in ME2?... 90% of the game is recruiting your team. 10% is fighting collectors. Not exact numbers of course but. Based on the length we spent recruiting rather than finding out more about the deeper problem of the invasion... or convincing states to help. I say ME2 has no real plot. But thats just my opinion. Still good game.

And therefore, the collect your team plot is not a plot!!!! 

I dont think it had one yes.... but still good game.
Is a great game, as long as you dont look too closely for too long. Else you start asking "...so what else is there besides recruiting badasses from the galaxy?"

Hence another reason I say ME is too damn big to be done in 3 games... but from my dejavu I feel another ODST is coming... or another Halo reach 5 month gap of "we are fighting we can win... " to "we... are loosing lets hide until reinforcements arrive"

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...
And therefore, the collect your team plot is not a plot!!!! 

Which doesn't make any sense considering that this is Mass Effect 2 and  the whole franchise is supposed to Be centererd around Shepard and the Reapers, not to Pokemon Squadmates.

[Phaedon]

As you said, he dismisses the story. Even compared to other video games! That's just... unprofessional? I do believe that he is biased in certain points, as he perceives his opinions as facts, even though they are hardly popular.

[ForceXev]

I think one big problem with the ME2 story is that we haven't played ME3 yet. Much of ME2 is setup for ME3. The Quarian political situation, clan Urdnot attempting to unite the clans, the genophage cure that Mordin's colleague was working on... these are all interesting plot points that are introduced in ME2 but we won't get the payoff on them until ME3. So ME2 seems weak by itself, but it will make ME3 much stronger.\\\\

The writer of this review says "When you plan ahead for a trilogy, then everything can be made to fit,
and the three games together can end up greater than the sum of their parts."  But then he goes on to judge the whole story based on only two parts.  Since the trilogy is meant to tell a singular story in three parts, it is a bit unfair to judge it before it is complete.

Modifié par ForceXev, 27 janvier 2011 - 09:12 .

[Phaedon]

Fixers0 wrote...
Which doesn't make any sense considering that this is Mass Effect 2 and  the whole franchise is supposed to Be centererd around Shepard and the Reapers, not to Pokemon Squadmates.

1. Experience first encounter
2. Collect team, build-up intensity
3. Climax, final conflict.

?

(Not that your point stands anyway, since a plot is a plot whether you liked it's target or not)

[TK Dude]

Phaedon wrote...

As you said, he dismisses the story. Even compared to other video games! That's just... unprofessional? I do believe that he is biased in certain points, as he perceives his opinions as facts, even though they are hardly popular.

Well, some people expected ME2 to be truly a sequel that continues the overarching plot against the Reapers.
It's up to ME3 if ME2 events will matter.

Modifié par TK Dude, 27 janvier 2011 - 09:09 .

[Fixers0]

Phaedon wrote...

Fixers0 wrote...
Which doesn't make any sense considering that this is Mass Effect 2 and  the whole franchise is supposed to Be centererd around Shepard and the Reapers, not to Pokemon Squadmates.

1. Experience first encounter
2. Collect team, build-up intensity
3. Climax, final conflict.

?

(Not that your point stands anyway, since a plot is a plot whether you liked it's target or not)

You don't seem to get it right, According to you to characters are supposed to be the story, alright, but then i could be any game, if it wasn't for the last minut Collector plot.  

[Spartas Husky]

ForceXev wrote...

I think one big problem with the ME2 story is that we haven't played ME3 yet. Much of ME2 is setup for ME3. The Quarian political situation, clan Urdnot's attempts to unite the clans, the genophage cure that Mordin's colleague was working on... these are all interesting plot points that are introduced in ME2 but we won't get the payoff on them until ME3. So ME2 seems weak by itself, but it will make ME3 much stronger.

That is true... middle games have to set up for the final stuff... which I sincerely hope it iwll be 4 games instead of 3. but suggesting this game is a setup for something greater is excusing lazy storytelling. Many games that are "middle" are incredibly well done, and explain things in detail to build up for future things while still delivering a powerful and immersive experience.


Mass effect 2 was all set up not a lot fo meaninful eperiences... aside from the occasional teary moment.