1151 réponses à ce sujet

[Val Seleznyov]

Remus Artega wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Remus Artega wrote...

I dropped the word pre somewhere...anyway you provided nothing but your own opinion which is good for everyone is doing the same here but it's not good enough to argue with someone who at least showed some effort and backed up his statement with poll (filled with "manipulated" voters as you might want to label it) that you countered only with childish denial...

Childish denial? His poll doesn't even make a distinction between "armour" and the "civilian" clothes worn by Miranda and Jack. That's how worthless it is.

All the poll really shows is that a lot of people like the idea of being able to customise their squad's look. To a lot of people that voted, i'm sure that simply means being able to change the pattern on Miranda's catsuit; not replacing it with generic armour.

I guess I should give in and leave it at that...
just be at peace with the knowledge that you have 2 of those kind of clothes and be tolerant towards the "minority" who wants reasonable non-ridiculous armor...

No, i don't think i will. Reason being, that i feel it important that Bioware don't mistake the many people currently wetting themselves over the prospect of making a video game seem slightly more realistic, as being indicative of all of us.

Given the reception Miranda's new outfit has garnered, it wouldn't surprise me if Bioware were thinking of toning down some of the over-the-top style from ME2, and i don't want that.

I'm absolutely ecstatic that you and your ilk have found so much pleasure in the degradation of one of Mass Effect's best characters, though. I just hope the devs don't decide to ruin Samara in AAP3.

Modifié par Val Seleznyov, 02 février 2011 - 12:07 .

[Terror_K]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Given the reception Miranda's new outfit has garnered, it wouldn't surprise me if Bioware were thinking of toning down some of the over-the-top style from ME2, and i don't want that.

But that's what a lot of us do want.

A lot of us feel that the feel and style of the original Mass Effect was somewhat ruined by Mass Effect 2 because it decided to shift its style and tone from what was originally a more classic, old-school epic sci-fi vibe and homage to the great sci-fi's of the late 70's through to early 90's to something more akin to the modern, bombastic action-without-thought-or-class modern Hollywood stylings akin to Michael Bay's Transformers, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, etc. And this styling just doesn't belong and fit with what Mass Effect was originally conceived to be at all.

You can't have thought-prokoving, semi-hard sci-fi with some intelligence to it and mindless, over-the-top BS that doesn't give a damn about consistency and the integrity of its own IP, especially when they did such a good job of crafting it in the first place. What BioWare needs to do is pick and style and audience and stick with it, rather than trying to mix two completely opposing styles in some weird attempt to try and have their cake and eat it too. And I hope to hell that if they do, they decide to go with the former and return Mass Effect more to how it began.

Mass Effect 3 needs to be more Ridley Scott and J. Michael Stracynski and less Michael Bay and Stephen Sommers.

Modifié par Terror_K, 02 février 2011 - 12:14 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Terror_K wrote...

(...)

Mass Effect 3 needs to be more Ridley Scott and J. Michael Stracynski and less Michael Bay and Stephen Sommers.

Exactly. No Michael Bay please.

[CannotCompute]

Wow, nicely said Terror_K.

[Burdokva]

Couldn't agree more, Terror_K.

[Val Seleznyov]

Terror_K wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Given the reception Miranda's new outfit has garnered, it wouldn't surprise me if Bioware were thinking of toning down some of the over-the-top style from ME2, and i don't want that.

But that's what a lot of us do want.

A lot of us feel that the feel and style of the original Mass Effect was somewhat ruined by Mass Effect 2 because it decided to shift its style and tone from what was originally a more classic, old-school epic sci-fi vibe and homage to the great sci-fi's of the late 70's through to early 90's to something more akin to the modern, bombastic action-without-thought-or-class modern Hollywood stylings akin to Michael Bay's Transformers, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, etc. And this styling just doesn't belong and fit with what Mass Effect was originally conceived to be at all.

You can't have thought-prokoving, semi-hard sci-fi with some intelligence to it and mindless, over-the-top BS that doesn't give a damn about consistency and the integrity of its own IP, especially when they did such a good job of crafting it in the first place. What BioWare needs to do is pick and style and audience and stick with it, rather than trying to mix two completely opposing styles in some weird attempt to try and have their cake and eat it too. And I hope to hell that if they do, they decide to go with the former and return Mass Effect more to how it began.

Mass Effect 3 needs to be more Ridley Scott and J. Michael Stracynski and less Michael Bay and Stephen Sommers.

Clap. Clap. Clap. Needs more intellectual dishonesty, though.

Trying to draw a link between the action stylings of Michael Bay based on squad attire in ME2 is just ridiculous... this is about codex entries being contradicted by way of certain attires, not about the action sequences being mindless in comparison to ME1 -- in fact i'd go as far as to say that ME2 was much more imaginative and thought-provoking on that front.

One facet of the universe was altered to improve aesthetic considerations. It wasn't "dumbed down" at all. It was arted up.

Modifié par Val Seleznyov, 02 février 2011 - 12:42 .

[Babli]

Terror_K wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Given the reception Miranda's new outfit has garnered, it wouldn't surprise me if Bioware were thinking of toning down some of the over-the-top style from ME2, and i don't want that.

But that's what a lot of us do want.

A lot of us feel that the feel and style of the original Mass Effect was somewhat ruined by Mass Effect 2 because it decided to shift its style and tone from what was originally a more classic, old-school epic sci-fi vibe and homage to the great sci-fi's of the late 70's through to early 90's to something more akin to the modern, bombastic action-without-thought-or-class modern Hollywood stylings akin to Michael Bay's Transformers, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, etc. And this styling just doesn't belong and fit with what Mass Effect was originally conceived to be at all.

You can't have thought-prokoving, semi-hard sci-fi with some intelligence to it and mindless, over-the-top BS that doesn't give a damn about consistency and the integrity of its own IP, especially when they did such a good job of crafting it in the first place. What BioWare needs to do is pick and style and audience and stick with it, rather than trying to mix two completely opposing styles in some weird attempt to try and have their cake and eat it too. And I hope to hell that if they do, they decide to go with the former and return Mass Effect more to how it began.

Mass Effect 3 needs to be more Ridley Scott and J. Michael Stracynski and less Michael Bay and Stephen Sommers.

This. This so much.

[hangmans tree]

wow...they should've put that on Miri in the first place and the skimpy things announce as an appearance pack.

First da... I dont buy that sh!t

[Terror_K]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Clap. Clap. Clap. Needs more intellectual dishonesty, though.

Trying to draw a link between the action stylings of Michael Bay based on squad attire in ME2 is just ridiculous... this is about codex entries being contradicted by way of certain attires, not about the action sequences being mindless in comparison to ME1 -- in fact i'd go as far as to say that ME2 was much more imaginative and thought-provoking on that front.

One facet of the universe was altered to improve aesthetic considerations. It wasn't "dumbed down" at all. It was arted up.

Except that the outfits aren't the only thing that's suffered. The whole game shifted in general tone and style, both presentation wise and gameplay wise. The outfits are just an example of what happened to the game as a whole. Not that it went the whole gamut with it, but as I said it seems like BioWare wanted to fuse the stylings of the original with the more modern, mainstream stuff of today. The whole game wreaks of "retooled by the network for a younger, hipper" audience throughout to a certain extent, though with the fine print of "without alienating too much of the old audience if possible."

But what BioWare seem to fail to understand is that fans of old-school sci-fi are fans of good sci-fi just as much because it isn't the generic, over-the-top, mindless drivel that Mass Effect 2 was trying to be more like as they are of it because of what it is. You can't just go and inject all these mainstream qualities into what is essentially a nerd-based IP and style and make things work, because you then start to make it the very thing said nerds dislike about mindlessly pandering mainstream entertainment. It's bad enough that sci-fi seems almost like a dead genre now on television without BioWare trying to take it away from what was probably the closest thing sci-fi fans had to a modern, good sci-fi.

Finally, as has already been said by many, you don't need to throw practicality out the window for the sake of aesthetic style, and nor should you. When you make an entire mockery out of your universe for the sake of some mere style, it doesn't say much about your universe or you caring about it. How can one expect to get into a universe when it doesn't even follow it's own rules and is so carelessly willing to throw continuity, lore, logic and consistency aside for the sake of one design-based element? And one that isn't even gameplay dependent no less. As much as I dislike the thermal clips and what they meant and did lore-wise, at least I can look at them and say, "here's an element that was gameplay-related and actually had a positive effect on improving gameplay, despite what it did." The outfits don't improve a thing gameplay wise, and only serve to constantly remind anybody who had invested in Mass Effect as fans that the people behind it seem to think style is more important than substance. Style is important and helps define things, but it should remain consistent and it should never make a complete farce of the IP its in by destroying all credibility.

Modifié par Terror_K, 02 février 2011 - 01:03 .

[Remus Artega]

Terror_K I suggest not to delve into any discussion with this intolerant person as he is evidently not willing to listen to a reason...

[ZLurps]

Uh... about AP2... Already wrote to announcement topic but I'm going to buy it and I think it's great that we get options like this.

[Val Seleznyov]

Remus Artega wrote...

Terror_K I suggest not to delve into any discussion with this intolerant person as he is evidently not willing to listen to a reason...

I'm intolerant because i feel that women should be able to dress however they like? I think that you're more intolerant, for having referred to Miranda as a "****".

Maybe all the women on the Normandy should be forced to wear Hijabs in ME3.

Modifié par Val Seleznyov, 02 février 2011 - 01:22 .

[ZLurps]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

No, i don't think i will. Reason being, that i feel it important that Bioware don't mistake the many people currently wetting themselves over the prospect of making a video game seem slightly more realistic, as being indicative of all of us.

Given the reception Miranda's new outfit has garnered, it wouldn't surprise me if Bioware were thinking of toning down some of the over-the-top style from ME2, and i don't want that.

I'm absolutely ecstatic that you and your ilk have found so much pleasure in the degradation of one of Mass Effect's best characters, though. I just hope the devs don't decide to ruin Samara in AAP3.

I don't think there is reason to be worried about that. Even BioWare gives nods to their fanbase, like evident from AP2 it's not  us on forums to that are making their games. BioWare is going to produce ME3 based on their own vision, probably check things from community managers and maybe they tweak things based to feedback, but really it's their game.

[pumpkinman13]

Ice Cold J wrote...

HBC Dresden wrote...

Ice Cold J wrote...

I'd like to see new outifts for Zaeed and Kasumi, but i doubt they'd waste their time if only so many people have those characters.

Why do people keep saying this?! Zaeed and Kasumi DLC, so they won't be in ME3, they won't get costumes, etc. This will only come true if people like you keep saying this.

Hence, my saying that I doubt they'd waste their time giving them alternate costumes.

I'd like to see them somehow in ME3. Especially Zaeed. He was one of my favorite characters.

really? I thought Zaeed was one of the worst... Wish they''d made more use of Legion, he was awesome.

[Terror_K]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

I'm intolerant because i feel that women should be able to dress however they like? I think that you're more intolerant, for having referred to Miranda as a "****".

Maybe all the women on the Normandy should be forced to wear Hijabs in ME3.

It's not about being able to "dress however they like" it's about simple practicality. I believe most women would decide to wear a practical, air-tight outfit if they were to go out into the hazards of space though. Spandex and a breathing mask simply won't protect you from extreme temperatures, radiation, pressure, toxins, etc. I may prefer a t-shirt and cargo pants to a spacesuit, but if I were going into space I know what I'd decide to wear. You don't see Firemen running into burning buildings in a polo shirt and shorts, and you don't see professsional divers going into the water with gumboots instead of flippers and a mask with no snorkel just because it's uncomfortable or doesn't suit them.

Besides, as has been stated before, what's wrong with her (and others) simply wearing whatever they want to on The Normandy and in safe, non-combat locations and having proper gear when it's needed, like how Shepard already does? About 80% of the time you're talking to squaddies they're on the ship anyway, where they can wear what they like. When they're out there in dangerous areas you don't speak that much with them and during combat they're simply there. As long as they stand out and don't look generic, I don't see the issue. If Ashley had only been able to wear Phoenix gear in ME1 for instance then she would have stood out and had a practical costume, as well as her own civvie gear on The Normandy. Tali and Garrus already have practical outfits in ME2 and they still stand out and feel unique. Grunt would have been fine if his arms were simply covered. Mordin and Jacob would have been fine if they'd just had proper helmets instead of stupid little breathing masks.

The basic point I'm trying to make is, squaddies should be able to wear whatever they want in their own time. When they're on the job they should wear clothes that suit the job.

Modifié par Terror_K, 02 février 2011 - 01:40 .

[Ieldra]

@Val:
Is there anyone here who wants generic armor back? As far as I can see, this is only about replacing the over-the-top stuff with something more believable.

As for the "degradation"? How, please, does Miranda's new armor degrade her?

I wonder why believability appears to be of absolutely no importance to you. Would you care to explain that to me?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 février 2011 - 01:51 .

[CannotCompute]

Terror_K wrote...

You don't see Firemen running into burning buildings in a polo shirt and shorts...

I totally pictured that and lol'd.

[Val Seleznyov]

Terror_K wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

I'm intolerant because i feel that women should be able to dress however they like? I think that you're more intolerant, for having referred to Miranda as a "****".

Maybe all the women on the Normandy should be forced to wear Hijabs in ME3.

It's not about being able to "dress however they like" it's about simple practicality. I believe most women would decide to wear a practical, air-tight outfit if they were to go out into the hazards of space though. Spandex and a breathing mask simply won't protect you from extreme temperatures, radiation, pressure, toxins, etc. I may prefer a t-shirt and cargo pants to a spacesuit, but if I were going into space I know what I'd decide to wear. You don't see Firemen running into burning buildings in a polo shirt and shorts, and you don't see professsional divers going into the water with gumboots instead of flippers and a mask with no snorkel just because it's uncomfortable or doesn't suit them.

Besides, as has been stated before, what's wrong with her (and others) simply wearing whatever they want to on The Normandy and in safe, non-combat locations and having proper gear when it's needed, like how Shepard already does? About 80% of the time you're talking to squaddies they're on the ship anyway, where they can wear what they like. When they're out there in dangerous areas you don't speak that much with them and during combat they're simply there. As long as they stand out and don't look generic, I don't see the issue. If Ashley had only been able to wear Phoenix gear in ME1 for instance then she would have stood out and had a practical costume, as well as her own civvie gear on The Normandy. Tali and Garrus already have practical outfits in ME2 and they still stand out and feel unique.

The basic point I'm trying to make is, squaddies should be able to wear whatever they want in their own time. When they're on the job they should wear clothes that suit the job.

Ashley is a poor example. She is a soldier, so restricting her to the Phoenix armour wouldn't be a blatant disregard for her characterisation. Putting Samara in full body armour, in any situation (bar-environmentally hostile places), definitely would be.

Many modern special forces outfit themselves, often entering engagements without helmets. If you're depending on armour for survival in a combat situation, you're not very good at your job. The justicars are described as a warrior monks. Some of you should think about what that means, and understand that just because it's set in the future that not everything needs to be full moulded armour.

[Ieldra]

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Many modern special forces outfit themselves, often entering engagements without helmets. If you're depending on armour for survival in a combat situation, you're not very good at your job. The justicars are described as a warrior monks. Some of you should think about what that means, and understand that just because it's set in the future that not everything needs to be full moulded armour.

If I recall things correctly, the lack of helmets was not generally seen as implausible, but only when characters were walking around *in space*. Samara without a helmet in combat is very much OK, but Samara without a helmet and something covering all other exposed skin *in space* is not.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 février 2011 - 02:06 .

[Val Seleznyov]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@Val:
Is there anyone here who wants generic armor back? As far as I can see, this is only about replacing the over-the-top stuff with something more believable.

As for the "degradation"? How, please, does Miranda's new armor degrade her?

I wonder why believability appears to be of absolutely no importance to you. Would you care to explain that to me?

As i just said: if you're a soldier, and you depend on armour to stay alive, you're simply not a very good soldier. Full body armour isn't a reality of modern day war, yet not everyone perishes in a firefight.

Miranda's new outfit implies that it's not possible for a woman to be both feminine and able to hold her own in a fight. I wont be using it, because i feel it strongly betrays her characterision. It doesn't just degrade her, but all women, everywhere.

It's perfectly believable to me that Jacob, Samara, Thane and Miranda could engage in a combat situation and not perish. That said, believability is a secondary concern to me when it comes to video game violence.

[Val Seleznyov]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Many modern special forces outfit themselves, often entering engagements without helmets. If you're depending on armour for survival in a combat situation, you're not very good at your job. The justicars are described as a warrior monks. Some of you should think about what that means, and understand that just because it's set in the future that not everything needs to be full moulded armour.

If I recall things correctly, the lack of helmets was not generally seen as implausible, but only when characters were walking around *in space*. Samara without a helmet in combat is very much OK, but Samara without a helmet and something covering all other exposed skin *in space* is not.

Okay. I can kind of see why some people want full body armour and proper helmets while in space, although i'm not especially fussed over it.

I'm talking more about the people that think everyone needs body armour to survive a firefight. It's simply not true.

[morrie23]

Doesn't matter how good a soldier you are, vacuum + unsealed spandex catsuit = dead.

[CannotCompute]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Miranda's new outfit implies that it's not possible for a woman to be both feminine and able to hold her own in a fight. I wont be using it, because i feel it strongly betrays her characterision. It doesn't just degrade her, but all women, everywhere.

And what about the numerous ass shots? Weren't they a bit degrading?

[Babli]

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Miranda's new outfit implies that it's not possible for a woman to be both feminine and able to hold her own in a fight. I wont be using it, because i feel it strongly betrays her characterision. It doesn't just degrade her, but all women, everywhere.

Funny thing. Her catsuits degrade her in my eyes. With armor, I can finaly take her seriously and not just as cheap fanservice.

CannotCompute also makes a good point.

Modifié par Babli, 02 février 2011 - 02:12 .

[Terror_K]

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Ashley is a poor example. She is a soldier, so restricting her to the Phoenix armour wouldn't be a blatant disregard for her characterisation. Putting Samara in full body armour, in any situation (bar-environmentally hostile places), definitely would be.

Aha! See, even here you yourself say "bar environmentally hostile places" directly. I'll continue this thought later...

Many modern special forces outfit themselves, often entering engagements without helmets. If you're depending on armour for survival in a combat situation, you're not very good at your job. The justicars are described as a warrior monks. Some of you should think about what that means, and understand that just because it's set in the future that not everything needs to be full moulded armour.

But we're not just talking about combat here. The main issue with the suits not being proper armour is more the fact that somehow the squaddies are getting all the benefits of armour (such as kinetic barriers, medi-gel dispensers, etc.) without actually having it. It contradicts the established lore. Especially with regards to medi-gel since the auto-dispensing element was introduced in ME2 to explain the auto-regenerating health and the lack of needing to dispense it manually, and it was stated directly that this was done through armour, and yet we have half the squaddie cast not even wearing it.

Beyond that there's actually more of an issue with space exploration capabilities regarding the proper sealing of suits and proper helmets than there is with the above armour issues. If the likes of Miranda and Samara simply had their suits more sealed and wore proper helmets during hazardous exploration moments (i.e. whenever Shepard's helmet auto-switches on and the breathing masks appear) then most of the issues would be gone. I think far more of us are put off by that than the armour aspect. Samara and Thane, for example, not necessarily suit armour that much, but that doesn't mean their outfits shouldn't be at least capable of sealing up and that they (and others) shouldn't get proper helmets.

If BioWare had simply had them switch to "sealed-up/helmeted mode" when needed then most of the issues would be gone. Most people could probably overlook the not-so-combat-ready nature of them if they were at least space worthy.