1151 réponses à ce sujet

[Remus Artega]

Me also cannot comprehend how making Miranda looking less like poledancer while adding a bit more seriousness to her is degrading her personality at all... in the eyes of many she actually went up...

[Lycidas]

Val Seleznyov wrote...
As i just said: if you're a soldier, and you depend on armour to stay alive, you're simply not a very good soldier. Full body armour isn't a reality of modern day war, yet not everyone perishes in a firefight.

No there is no full body armor for modern day forces but thats more a technicial + financial problem. If there were full body armors available that would not hinder movement too much for the price of todays upper body protection it would very well be used.

[Ieldra]

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Miranda's new outfit implies that it's not possible for a woman to be both feminine and able to hold her own in a fight. I wont be using it, because i feel it strongly betrays her characterision. It doesn't just degrade her, but all women, everywhere.

First, I say Miranda looks feminine in her new armor. I find her very attractive in it. Second, I'd like to point you to this little comparison regarding combat outfits. Note that the "realistic" version isn't full body armor, just something that may protect you against cold, flying debris etc.. or in ME's case, the goddamn vacuum of space. That's what the main issue is about.

As for the - forgive me - idiotic claim that Miranda's new armor degrades all women, please visit any place where women fight for any reason that doesn't include the sexual gratification of the onlookers, and tell me of the outfits you see. What are they? Yeah, practical. Are these now degrading to all women as well? Really, I wanted to be polite about this, but after reading this I can only say: get your head out of your ass.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 février 2011 - 02:23 .

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

there's no point in debating with single-minded zealots like terror_k, gleym etc - all you get is a headache, i should know i've "countered" them many times with reason, logic etc. but when you have your anti-me2 "religion" on your side, all the logic and reason in the world won't convince you, seemingly. plus i was being facetious - sorry if that didn't come across explicitly enough in text for you... 

What "debating" and what "logic and reason" exactly? A few pages ago in this very thread myself and a good half a dozen others came up with several reasons why most of the standard ME2 outfits such as Miranda's and Jack's are completely retarded in the Mass Effect universe, and you just completely ignored them and disappeared from the conversation, only to appear again now to make snide comments and little more.

You've offered absolutely no logic or reason beyond your own preference for over-the-top style over substance as to how said outfits can even work in the ME universe, and I wouldn't be surprised if you're countering the real logic and reason coming from the other side merely to argue because God forbid there should be any flaws in your precious Mass Effect 2. Even a lot of pro-ME2 people I've seen on these forums can at least admit that the outfits were retarded from a practical standpoint, even if they preferred the general gist of individual outfits concept-wise.

how about: having full-face helmets in a character-driven and conversation-based game would detract substantially fromthe experience - a la the preorder bonus armours everyone complained about for that exact reason? i've pointed these things out several times before with you and others, terror_k, i have neither the time nor the patience to babysit you through the same points again and again whilst you bang your "michael bay-esque me2" drum again and again (which is completely retarded btw). non-removable head/eye-pieces are just as bad with this lot.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 02 février 2011 - 02:22 .

[Jebel Krong]

Terror_K wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...

Given the reception Miranda's new outfit has garnered, it wouldn't surprise me if Bioware were thinking of toning down some of the over-the-top style from ME2, and i don't want that.

But that's what a lot of us do want.

A lot of us feel that the feel and style of the original Mass Effect was somewhat ruined by Mass Effect 2 because it decided to shift its style and tone from what was originally a more classic, old-school epic sci-fi vibe and homage to the great sci-fi's of the late 70's through to early 90's to something more akin to the modern, bombastic action-without-thought-or-class modern Hollywood stylings akin to Michael Bay's Transformers, G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra, etc. And this styling just doesn't belong and fit with what Mass Effect was originally conceived to be at all.

You can't have thought-prokoving, semi-hard sci-fi with some intelligence to it and mindless, over-the-top BS that doesn't give a damn about consistency and the integrity of its own IP, especially when they did such a good job of crafting it in the first place. What BioWare needs to do is pick and style and audience and stick with it, rather than trying to mix two completely opposing styles in some weird attempt to try and have their cake and eat it too. And I hope to hell that if they do, they decide to go with the former and return Mass Effect more to how it began.

Mass Effect 3 needs to be more Ridley Scott and J. Michael Stracynski and less Michael Bay and Stephen Sommers.

.... and there you go again misrepresenting not only both games but the "lot" of people you supposedly represent.

<_<

[Ieldra]

JK: Helmets can be transparent

[Jebel Krong]

they can, but most aren't and even the ME1 ones which were designed with such considerations in mind blocked a good 50% of the face.

[morrie23]

Jebel Krong wrote...
how about: having full-face helmets in a character-driven and conversation-based game would detract substantially fromthe experience *snip*

Tali says hello...

[Babli]

Jebel Krong wrote...
how about: having full-face helmets in a character-driven and conversation-based game would detract substantially fromthe experience - a la the preorder bonus armours everyone complained about for that exact reason?

All it needed was a helmet toogle. And that would work for every squadmate. It worked in ME 1 and nobody was bothered with it.

But instead of helmet toogle we got breathermasks in space...

Makes perfect sense.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Winterfly wrote...

What the **** is up with the glasses...

Yeah, if only they didn't add those freakin' glasses...

Modders! I summon you!

Unofrtunately, there isn't anything we can do. Unlike Shep, the NPC's don't come as a body and a head, they come (like the DLC armour) as just the one model. That means we can't swap the glasses head to the non-glasses head whilst keeping the armoured body.

Oh no =[

Not sure If I'm gonna get it now...

[Val Seleznyov]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Miranda's new outfit implies that it's not possible for a woman to be both feminine and able to hold her own in a fight. I wont be using it, because i feel it strongly betrays her characterision. It doesn't just degrade her, but all women, everywhere.

First, I say Miranda looks feminine in her new armor. I find her very attractive in it. Second, I'd like to point you to this little comparison regarding combat outfits. Note that the "realistic" version isn't full body armor, just something that may protect you against cold, flying debris etc.. or in ME's case, the goddamn vacuum of space. That's what the main issue is about.

As for the - forgive me - idiotic claim that Miranda's new armor degrades all women, please visit any place where women fight for any reason that doesn't include the sexual gratification of the onlookers, and tell me of the outfits you see. What are they? Yeah, practical. Are these now degrading to all women as well? Really, I wanted to be polite about this, but after reading this I can only say: get your head out of your ass.

Her new outfit is disgusting, and is certainly far less effeminate than her default catsuits - which is probably much easier to fight in than full body armour, certainly less restrictive.
 
In pandering to the simple tastes of the vocal minority, Bioware have unwittingly sent out a very disturbing message.

[Jebel Krong]

Val Seleznyov wrote...
 
In pandering to the simple tastes of the vocal minority, Bioware have unwittingly sent out a very disturbing message.

QFT.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 02 février 2011 - 02:40 .

[Ieldra]

Babli wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
how about: having full-face helmets in a character-driven and conversation-based game would detract substantially fromthe experience - a la the preorder bonus armours everyone complained about for that exact reason?

All it needed was a helmet toogle. And that would work for every squadmate. It worked in ME 1 and nobody was bothered with it.

But instead of helmet toogle we got breathermasks in space...

Makes perfect sense.

QFT.
Apart from that, I don't mind not having helmets in combat. But not having them in space is ridiculous.

[Babli]

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Her new outfit is disgusting, and is certainly far less effeminate than her default catsuits - which is probably much easier to fight in than full body armour, certainly less restrictive.
 
In pandering to the simple tastes of the vocal minority, Bioware have unwittingly sent out a very disturbing message.

I love how you ignore actual arguments from others and you just continues in your pathethic rant and calling everyone except yourself a minority.

Modifié par Babli, 02 février 2011 - 02:35 .

[Jebel Krong]

Babli wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
how about: having full-face helmets in a character-driven and conversation-based game would detract substantially fromthe experience - a la the preorder bonus armours everyone complained about for that exact reason?

All it needed was a helmet toogle. And that would work for every squadmate. It worked in ME 1 and nobody was bothered with it.

But instead of helmet toogle we got breathermasks in space...

Makes perfect sense.

yes but they "overlooked" the helmet toggle once already... besides which the overwhelming point isn't about helmets - it's about the fact that almost no-one was bothered by the original ME2 outfits until comparitively recently: it wasn't even mentioned in any reviews (that i saw), which universally praised the uniqueness of the characters - something unique outfits certainly have a hand in shaping - until the tiny but vocal minority got their little bandwagon rolling and got their own way.

morrie23 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
how about: having full-face helmets in a character-driven and conversation-based game would detract substantially fromthe experience *snip*

 

Tali says hello...

tali's an exception and has been from the start, so don't be glib.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 02 février 2011 - 02:39 .

[morrie23]

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Her new outfit is disgusting

That's a bit strong don't you think? I think you'll find the that the majority around here like the new armour (apart from the visor).

Modifié par morrie23, 02 février 2011 - 02:42 .

[morrie23]

Jebel Krong wrote...
tali's an exception and has been from the start, so don't be glib.

But proves that having a helmet does not impede the character and how well connect with them. So having helmets on our other squadmates when they are called for (space, toxic environments) would not be a problem.

[Val Seleznyov]

Babli wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Her new outfit is disgusting, and is certainly far less effeminate than her default catsuits - which is probably much easier to fight in than full body armour, certainly less restrictive.
 
In pandering to the simple tastes of the vocal minority, Bioware have unwittingly sent out a very disturbing message.

I love how you ignore actual arguments from others and you just continues in your pathethic rant and calling everyone except yourself a minority.

What arguments? I have already stated that i would appreciate any move to provide all team members with "appropraite" attire for enviornmentally hostile worlds.

There is no logical argument to be made for giving the likes of Jack, Jacob, Thane and Samara full body armour for the sake of the simple act of being involved in a firefight.

Other than the codex defying capibilities of such attires, i guess, but personally i put those, along with the various renegade interupts in which Shepard shoots through armour, shields and barriers like they're not even there, as being "one of those things".

It is just a video game. And personally, i'm all for giving characters cool and unique appearances that help to portray their personalities. The price was a nullified codex entry. Boo hoo.

[Joshua nash]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Miranda's new outfit implies that it's not possible for a woman to be both feminine and able to hold her own in a fight. I wont be using it, because i feel it strongly betrays her characterision. It doesn't just degrade her, but all women, everywhere.

First, I say Miranda looks feminine in her new armor. I find her very attractive in it. Second, I'd like to point you to this little comparison regarding combat outfits. Note that the "realistic" version isn't full body armor, just something that may protect you against cold, flying debris etc.. or in ME's case, the goddamn vacuum of space. That's what the main issue is about.

As for the - forgive me - idiotic claim that Miranda's new armor degrades all women, please visit any place where women fight for any reason that doesn't include the sexual gratification of the onlookers, and tell me of the outfits you see. What are they? Yeah, practical. Are these now degrading to all women as well? Really, I wanted to be polite about this, but after reading this I can only say: get your head out of your ass.

you know i totally agree with you, but i personally think that the reason some people are saying that the new alt appearance betrays her character is that they are under the belief that miranda's character is all about her wearing a cat suit and ****ting up the normandy, which it isn't, miranda is an agent of a para-military/para-covert-intelegence organization, and as such i feel that this new appearance actually shows off that she is not only capable of seduction which i believe to be the original intent of her default appearance, but that she also is capable of curb stomping the hell out of anyone that gets in her way, basically she isn't just some pretty thing to drool over, she's also this badass chick that throwdown in a fight just good as shepard, now of all my current playthroughs of ME2 my shepard has also kicked ashley to the curb and shacked up with miranda, but i always had a problem with the fact that both her appearances in the game just didn't gel well with my shepard but this new alt appearance has finally done that now she will actually look like she and my shepard are prefect fit for each other 

[Jebel Krong]

morrie23 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
tali's an exception and has been from the start, so don't be glib.

But proves that having a helmet does not impede the character and how well connect with them. So having helmets on our other squadmates when they are called for (space, toxic environments) would not be a problem.

try having every character an in-expressive talking head for the entire game and then see how you feel. i did it with shepare and the collector armour, but it very much detracts from a lot of the experience.

[Ieldra]

Val Seleznyov wrote...
Her new outfit is disgusting, and is certainly far less effeminate than her default catsuits - which is probably much easier to fight in than full body armour, certainly less restrictive.

Miranda's armor is still a lot lighter than Shepard's. And her catsuits are cut so close to the body that they're either made of stretch (see the vacuum debate again if that should be the case) or very restrictive for movements. Apart from that, using her white outfit in combat makes her look as if she'd rather distract her enemies with her ass than kill them with biotics or with a pistol.
And as for characterization, Miranda is introduced as a somewhat aloof, even abrasive woman who's hard to get. The white outfit sends the opposite image. So yes, the new armor supports her characerization perfectly. As for the femme fatale aspect (which they totally failed to convey in the game), of course she wouldn't wear armor in situations where she'd play that out, but we don't have such situations in ME2.
 

In pandering to the simple tastes of the vocal minority, Bioware have unwittingly sent out a very disturbing message.

It appears to me that *you* are part of a very vocal minority. 

@Joshua nash:
Thank you for your additions. I completely agree.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 février 2011 - 02:47 .

[morrie23]

Jebel Krong wrote...
try having every character an in-expressive talking head for the entire
game and then see how you feel. i did it with shepare and the collector
armour, but it very much detracts from a lot of the experience.

You seem to be missing the part where I said: 'So having helmets on our other squadmates when they are called for (space, toxic environments) would not be a problem'. Therefore I advocate that they don't walk around with their heads in a bucket the entire game. only when the environment calls for it.

Modifié par morrie23, 02 février 2011 - 02:49 .

[Terror_K]

Jebel Krong wrote...

.... and there you go again misrepresenting not only both games but the "lot" of people you supposedly represent.

<_<

Ignoring this following my posts, huh Jebel?:-

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Exactly. No Michael Bay please.

CannotCompute wrote...

Wow, nicely said Terror_K.

Burdokva wrote...

Couldn't agree more, Terror_K.

Babli wrote...
This. This so much. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/love.png[/smilie]

And I like that you still insist your opinion is the majority when the only other person on your side of the argument in this thread is somebody who admits they prefer style over substance, and even they're now starting to admit that combat-protection aside the offending squaddies could in fact do with some space-worthy gear or variations on the gear for dangerous places so long as they remain personalised.

Also, your complaining is almost pointless. How often to the helmets even come into play in ME2? And how often to they come into play when you actually have a good amount of dialogue? The Migrant Fleet (where it makes a lot of sense, may I add) is about the only real contender, since almost everywhere else has barely any dialogue and is mostly about action during those moments (such as the N7 missions on hazardous worlds, The "dormant" Collector vessel, on the outside TSB's ship, etc.). The helmets only need come into play when they need to, not all the time.

Finally, for the record, I personally have been against this since before the game even came out, and I've seen lots of others saying the same thing. This is hardly a recent complaint. If it was, Miranda probably wouldn't be in armour in this new pack.

Modifié par Terror_K, 02 février 2011 - 03:07 .

[Jebel Krong]

morrie23 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
try having every character an in-expressive talking head for the entire
game and then see how you feel. i did it with shepare and the collector
armour, but it very much detracts from a lot of the experience.

You seem to be missing the part where I said: 'So having helmets on our other squadmates when they are called for (space, toxic environments) would not be a problem'. Therefore I advocate that they don't walk around with their heads in a bucket the entire game. only when the environment calls for it.

you seem to be missing the part where all the exciting, dramatic moments tend to take place in such environs... as befits the nature of the science fiction game. 

[Terror_K]

Jebel Krong wrote...

you seem to be missing the part where all the exciting, dramatic moments tend to take place in such environs... as befits the nature of the science fiction game. 

Most science fiction I've seen acknowledges the dangers of space and has its characters dressed accordingly too.