1151 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Part of the problem LPPrince is that they're giving us reskins which we have to pay for, whilst refusing to release modding tools that would allow people to create their own skins. Now Bioware could still create new models and release in DLC packs - like the AAP Garrus and Miranda - but it means they'd have to put more effort in with the others.

[shinobi602]

Ughhh I'm so tired of these stupid visors on the squadmates.....

[Ulzeraj]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Part of the problem LPPrince is that they're giving us reskins which we have to pay for, whilst refusing to release modding tools that would allow people to create their own skins. Now Bioware could still create new models and release in DLC packs - like the AAP Garrus and Miranda - but it means they'd have to put more effort in with the others.

I dont think I ever heard something against modding besides "warranty voided" warnings. If you have the capacity to mod then you can mod. Check the guy doing an incredible work with high resolution character textures on the other thread for example. 

Want to mod? Got the skills? Go ahead!

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 04 février 2011 - 02:15 .

[LPPrince]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Part of the problem LPPrince is that they're giving us reskins which we have to pay for, whilst refusing to release modding tools that would allow people to create their own skins. Now Bioware could still create new models and release in DLC packs - like the AAP Garrus and Miranda - but it means they'd have to put more effort in with the others.

And there's where the counter-argument goes out the window.

You don't have to do anything. Neither do they.

Optional content is optional. No need to buy it if you feel like a re-skin is cheap.

As for modding tools, they've repeatedly said/stated that should you choose to mod, things might not go smoothly when carrying over information from one game to the next. On top of that, once you mod, you take full responsibility of anything that happens to your game and they are relieved of responsibility.

Again, they have no need to release any modding tools or DLC if they choose to avoid doing so.

[Shotokanguy]

What is this about reskins?



These appearances are new models. Sure, Grunt doesn't really have much added to his model. But it's not like they took one of the character's base 2 outfits and slapped some different colors on it.

[LPPrince]

Shotokanguy wrote...

What is this about reskins?

These appearances are new models. Sure, Grunt doesn't really have much added to his model. But it's not like they took one of the character's base 2 outfits and slapped some different colors on it.

We need someone to post identical pictures of all three outfits of a character side by side.

That's the only way that can be proven to people.

[LPPrince]

I should also mention that technically, none of the six are re-skins as they've all had changes and things added to them.

[superfatman]

It's probably not worth it to fire up this game again when it's just new costumes to look at. I'll probably buy it but not until there is some new content to play.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

Ulzeraj wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Part of the problem LPPrince is that they're giving us reskins which we have to pay for, whilst refusing to release modding tools that would allow people to create their own skins. Now Bioware could still create new models and release in DLC packs - like the AAP Garrus and Miranda - but it means they'd have to put more effort in with the others.

I dont think I ever heard something against modding besides "warranty voided" warnings. If you have the capacity to mod then you can mod. Check the guy doing an incredible work with high resolution character textures on the other thread for example. 

Want to mod? Got the skills? Go ahead!

Actually that's not true. Bioware's modifications to the Unreal engine means that the UDK can't be successfully used with it. Therefore we have the ability to extract the PCC files (these contain the models, textures etc) but we do NOT have the ability to repack them. What that means is that unless you use the FPS-sucking 'texmod', you cannot mod textures.

LPPrince wrote...

Optional content is optional. No need to buy it if you feel like a re-skin is cheap.

Again, they have no need to release any modding tools or DLC if they choose to avoid doing so.

Of course it's option, it's also not relevant. As for them not releasing the tools if they do wish, you're absolutely right, but it again goes towards my argument - they don't release them because then they can keep selling reskins of outfits that any modder could do. Even in prior Bioware games they've been extremely moddable, such as Knights of the Old Republic. Go to kotor.filefront.com and have a look at the number of reskins there. Bioware, by not releasing modding tools, is encouraging lazy business practices. Yes the new Garrus and Miranda are good, but the others are not.

[HBC Dresden]

superfatman wrote...

It's probably not worth it to fire up this game again when it's just new costumes to look at. I'll probably buy it but not until there is some new content to play.

I say BioWare should add some new trophies and achievements (along with the last DLC) to reach the max of 1750 (on the 360 at least). And these would be specific stuff to force the player to experiment (or again, with some of us) with story options to give incentive for another playthrough.

[LPPrince]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...
Of course it's option, it's also not relevant. As for them not releasing the tools if they do wish, you're absolutely right, but it again goes towards my argument - they don't release them because then they can keep selling reskins of outfits that any modder could do. Even in prior Bioware games they've been extremely moddable, such as Knights of the Old Republic. Go to kotor.filefront.com and have a look at the number of reskins there. Bioware, by not releasing modding tools, is encouraging lazy business practices. Yes the new Garrus and Miranda are good, but the others are not.

1. That's an assumption.
2. That's just flat out wrong.
3. That's an opinion.

First, none of the outfits have been re-skins.
Second, not releasing modding tools in no way is encouraging lazy business practices. What its doing is keeping the integrity of their game intact. The game THEY made and keeping it the way THEY want it to be because THEY want it that way.
Third, an opinion is just that. An opinion. That is what's really irrelevant.

So I still don't see the problem.

By the way, just so we're clear, I am in no way trying to incite an argument or anything like that. I feel like I had to say that just in case someone comes in here and screams, "FLAMES! INSTIGATORS! ANARCHY!"

[LPPrince]

HBC Dresden wrote...

superfatman wrote...

It's probably not worth it to fire up this game again when it's just new costumes to look at. I'll probably buy it but not until there is some new content to play.

I say BioWare should add some new trophies and achievements (along with the last DLC) to reach the max of 1750 (on the 360 at least). And these would be specific stuff to force the player to experiment (or again, with some of us) with story options to give incentive for another playthrough.

I would love a full 1750G for ME2 since ME1 didn't have it, but for that to occur there'd have to be a serious amount of new achievements for content, or some really high rewarding achievements.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

LPPrince wrote...

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...
Of course it's option, it's also not relevant. As for them not releasing the tools if they do wish, you're absolutely right, but it again goes towards my argument - they don't release them because then they can keep selling reskins of outfits that any modder could do. Even in prior Bioware games they've been extremely moddable, such as Knights of the Old Republic. Go to kotor.filefront.com and have a look at the number of reskins there. Bioware, by not releasing modding tools, is encouraging lazy business practices. Yes the new Garrus and Miranda are good, but the others are not.

1. That's an assumption.
2. That's just flat out wrong.
3. That's an opinion.

First, none of the outfits have been re-skins.
Second, not releasing modding tools in no way is encouraging lazy business practices. What its doing is keeping the integrity of their game intact. The game THEY made and keeping it the way THEY want it to be because THEY want it that way.
Third, an opinion is just that. An opinion. That is what's really irrelevant.

So I still don't see the problem.

By the way, just so we're clear, I am in no way trying to incite an argument or anything like that. I feel like I had to say that just in case someone comes in here and screams, "FLAMES! INSTIGATORS! ANARCHY!"

Firstly I realise you're not trying to incite anything and it's all good, I enjoy a good debate

1. Of course it is, but it's one backed up by the available evidence. If you have a look through the projects pages here there are heaps of reskins, some of which are very nice. I get that you say that they aren't reskins, but for all intents and purposes they are. Thane and Jack are reskins with glasses, which most people don't even want I should add. Tali looks like a reskin to me as well, though I will say I do like the AAP Garrus and Miranda.

2. I disagree. But not releasing modding tools what they're doing is denying modders the chance to change what the characters wear. I mean hey why let modders do a simple task if the company can do it and then charge their customers for it? Things like Overlord, Kasumi, and LotSB are worthwhile DLC. LotSB in particular has received high marks, and that's the sort of thing that Bioware should be concentrating on, not shutting out the modding community to make money on reskin micro DLC.

3. Whether the new outfits are good or not is of course my opinion. The new Grunt (why oh why do I keep going to call him Wrex?) costume looks okay, but the glasses on Jack and Thane kill those costumes for me. At least Bioware seemed to have learned this time that headgear is good, covering part of the face of the character is not. At least there's progress.

[LPPrince]

Well, who knows. Things may change over time. For now though, everyone's gotta deal with it.

[Captain_Obvious_au]

scyphozoa - that's all good and well, but Bioware modified the Unreal engine which means the UDK doesn't work for the Mass Effect games.

I also never said that they were obligated to, just that they should.

Modifié par Captain_Obvious_au, 04 février 2011 - 05:29 .

[Winterfly]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

Part of the problem LPPrince is that they're giving us reskins which we have to pay for, whilst refusing to release modding tools that would allow people to create their own skins. Now Bioware could still create new models and release in DLC packs - like the AAP Garrus and Miranda - but it means they'd have to put more effort in with the others.

I tell you, back in the day (Neverwinter Nights release ) Bioware shipped NWN with Aurora toolset. I guess they had a diffrent way of thinking back then or Atari didn't care much but since EA took over the lease been harsher or something. Bioware knows now what a toolset can do. 

It be pretty hard to out do Mass Effect all in all I bet but their Firewalker DLC and their Appearance packs might be butchered and unsold if fans got their hands on the toolset. There for they don't dare release a toolset. 

I can name a ton of mods being better then what got released with NWN

Witch wake, partly made by bioware but fans was along the road I think
Runes of blood
Tales of Atarra i think it was called

We can also bring up a ton of online modules who still is going strong and act as small MMO worlds. It is not thanks to any company that NWN is still going strong. It is the player base who made content for itself. NWN been left to rot and die on its own yet it seems to outlive its predecessor NWN2 and other games. 

Bioware do some good ****, Appearance packs do not make me impressed although. Cause we all know Bioware can do better then this junk. So I say its almost an offense that they are forced to take payment for some extra appearances when excellent modules like Witch Wake was released for free and was backed up by Bioware. 

That was quality, god damn splendid module. 

[Ulzeraj]

Oh boy the Aurora toolset was pure gold but that was not the only thing that kept the game alive. The game, its toolset and the dedicated server ran on Linux. It was a quality game with modding tools for Linux and its users received it with warm and fuzzy feelings. The Linux community kept it alive... they were the ones hosting those game worlds you described.

I got so mad when they said NWN2 was using .NET technology. NWN2 was planed to be Windows-only.

But bear in mind NWN was a game created with very audacious multiplaying capabilities in mind. It was the only true implementation of a "pen-and-paper rpg" on a computer and with a D&D3rd experience to boot! Mass Effect is nothing like that.

Also Aurora didnt modified the game internals. It was a tool for dungeon masters to create their own adventures.

Modifié par Ulzeraj, 04 février 2011 - 10:26 .

[Gleym]

It sucks they ditched that method of creating content. Dragon Age might very well have flourished in the custom content area otherwise.

[Winterfly]

Ulzeraj wrote...

Oh boy the Aurora toolset was pure gold but that was not the only thing that kept the game alive. The game, its toolset and the dedicated server ran on Linux. It was a quality game with modding tools for Linux and its users received it with warm and fuzzy feelings. The Linux community kept it alive... they were the ones hosting those game worlds you described.

I got so mad when they said NWN2 was using .NET technology. NWN2 was planed to be Windows-only.

But bear in mind NWN was a game created with very audacious multiplaying capabilities in mind. It was the only true implementation of a "pen-and-paper rpg" on a computer and with a D&D3rd experience to boot! Mass Effect is nothing like that.

Also Aurora didnt modified the game internals. It was a tool for dungeon masters to create their own adventures.

And we haven't seen anything close to it ever since. Its a bad pick economy wise for a company when they get a million players as opposition to their own products made with this tool. 

The effects would not be the same in Mass Effect or Dragon Age but damn, Bioware would have a run for their money when people mastered toolsets if ever released to these two games and as good as Aurora. It takes a lot of more effort to take payment for stuff some players push out like its a walk in the park.

[Jebel Krong]

Captain_Obvious_au wrote...

scyphozoa - that's all good and well, but Bioware modified the Unreal engine which means the UDK doesn't work for the Mass Effect games.

I also never said that they were obligated to, just that they should.

legally they also wouldn't be allowed to release a modified SDK anyway.

[Winterfly]

Anyone know why they stopped working on their own modules for NWN? I guess it was cause it was to much effort to work against their own community who tossed out quality modules. Those DLC's got canned pretty fast.

[javierabegazo]

While it may be cheap, I suppose I don't mind using a subway fare for new outfits, I might as well seeing as how I'll likely play ME2 2 more times before ME3's release, and then once more after

[nutshell43]

I don't mind paying a subway fare for content. That said, those silly sunglasses ruined AAP1 for me.

[LPPrince]

javierabegazo wrote...

While it may be cheap, I suppose I don't mind using a subway fare for new outfits, I might as well seeing as how I'll likely play ME2 2 more times before ME3's release, and then once more after

Javi, earlier last year I had to go back home to NYC on my trip up to Ithaca to visit my father.

Subway fare has gone UP. Its ridiculous.

So I can see why you used it as an example, but at the same time, aye dios mio chico.