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[Rutugag]

So after completing my first playthrough of DA:O (and eagerly starting my second!) I got to thinking about the various nations mentioned throughout the game and how many of them really reminded me of what I learned on Medival nations from my European history class. Here's how I've broken it down:

Tevinter Imperium: Roman Empire. Andraste is pretty clearly a jesuslike figure, claiming to have been spoken to by the Maker and being his "Bride" is very reminiscent of Jesus being the Son of God (at least in christianity). factor in a trusted confidant turning her in to an occupying empire (The Imperium) and being executed, the Teveninter Imperium seems pretty clearly to be the Rome of Thedas. as an interesting aside, the Tevinter Imperium evidently still alive as of DA:O's events, so that would probably also make them the Byzantines.

Orlais: France. this one is pretty obvious, their knights are called Chevaliers, just like medival french knights, the accent is almost spot on for french.also, according to Leliana and one of the women in the market district of denerim, Orlais is the home of fashion in thedas, much like the french court was right up until the revolution.

if we take Orlais as france, then it seems that feralden is England. the rivalery certainly indicates it, but also the fact that Orlais occupied Feralden for at least a hundred years before being thrown out is almost exactly what happend to england after William the Conquror (I think it was him, but I might have my medival royalty mixed up, feel free to correct me). finally, their is the fact that their nobles are called arls and teyrns in a strange pseudo two tiered nobility system is just like englands system of Earls and Dukes.

Antiva is harder to be sure of, but judging by the accents of the two antivans I have met in came (the merchant and Zevran), it seems very likely to be Feraldens version of Spain, not to mention that zeverans style is a rather classic "Spanish Heartthrob" sterotype.

what do you guys think? thoughts? comments?

[Mummolus]

Thedas is very much an analogue of medieval Europe. I believe the devs have even stated at various points that the nations are inspired by the European equivalents - Ferelden is England, Orlais is France, Antiva is Spain, Anderfels are the Holy Roman Empire, and the Tevinter Imperium is the Byzantine Empire. This would probably make the free marches a version of the Italian city-states.

[Rutugag]

interesting, where is the weissupt (I have no idea how to stell it) grey warden fortress locked, the name sounds very german, is it in the anderfels?

[Carilhelol]

What would be the analogue for the Qunari and Chasind?


The Qunari strike me as somewhat similar to the Mongolian Horde in how they were an unknown group which suddenly invaded and conquered local populations using their different style of combat, but rather then mounted archers as their primary force the Qunari came by the sea and seem to focus on more traditional European combat styles, but then I am basing their combat style simply on Sten, and unfortunately one individual is not a good basis to analyze an entire group.


As for the Chasind… I have no clue other than just barbarian or pagan holdout groups throughout Europe.

Modifié par Carilhelol, 14 novembre 2009 - 02:08 .

[Rutugag]

I actually thought of the Qunari more as the moors in that they came to spread their "True religion" into what amounts to medival Europe, just as the muslim moors did. plus their alien sense of honor was also something described by European medieval scholars (thank you history channel), just like the qunari.

[Maria Caliban]

The qunari are vulcans. Once ruled by their emotions and now governed by a philosophy of absolute discipline. Intolerant, aggressive vulcans.

[Carilhelol]

Hmm... the Moors = Qunari does make more sense, but does this mean that the Antivans will be the ones to finaly beat back the Qunari?

Also, which faction is doing most of the fighting against them up to this point? The Imperium perhaps?

Modifié par Carilhelol, 14 novembre 2009 - 03:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Well the Qunari way of life and faith is very dissimilar from the Moors. It seems to me that they are viking like. From the sea and are somewhat alien even to Mainland / western Europe.



But Qunari, Elves, Dwarves cannot be compared with modern European nations. Only the regions are comparable.

[Curry Noodles]

Yeah, it's the Tevinter imperium. The codex says they're actually still at war, and if I remember correctly sten says something to the equivalent of the imperium being one of the reasons the Qunari dislike mages.

[Rutugag]

I will agree that the elves dwarves and qunari are less able to be compared to historical nations, its mostly the humans. I don't know how dissimilar the moorish and Qunari ways of life are though. I'll admit that I never got to far into sten's backstory (mostly because I was being a 'good" character and he whined whenever I helped somone) but from what I did see, it isnt that unlike islam of the time, spread your faith by the sword, take over a sizable portion of europe/mainland thedas, when you are finally beaten back, many of the occupied lands have converted and choose to stay that way (see the qunari entry on the dragon age wiki) just as there is still a sizable muslim population in spain today, some are more recent converts but islam in spain has its roots in the moor invasion.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Rutugag wrote...

I will agree that the elves dwarves and qunari are less able to be compared to historical nations, its mostly the humans. I don't know how dissimilar the moorish and Qunari ways of life are though. I'll admit that I never got to far into sten's backstory (mostly because I was being a 'good" character and he whined whenever I helped somone) but from what I did see, it isnt that unlike islam of the time, spread your faith by the sword, take over a sizable portion of europe/mainland thedas, when you are finally beaten back, many of the occupied lands have converted and choose to stay that way (see the qunari entry on the dragon age wiki) just as there is still a sizable muslim population in spain today, some are more recent converts but islam in spain has its roots in the moor invasion.

Meeh, by the 15th century, the Spanish Inquisition made sure that there was no Muslim or Jew in Iberia, most of whom were either forcibly converted to Christianity, exiled or outright executed. I don't think there are any Muslim Spaniards who actually trace their line all the way back to the original Arabs. Most of them went to Morocco.

[Seraal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Well the Qunari way of life and faith is very dissimilar from the Moors. It seems to me that they are viking like. From the sea and are somewhat alien even to Mainland / western Europe.

But Qunari, Elves, Dwarves cannot be compared with modern European nations. Only the regions are comparable.

i agree on the qunari being more "viking like" they seem to value strength of arms over anything else. sten even says the scouting forces of the qunari started fighting in order to learn about the people of fereldan or something to that extent. to quote a great tv series about a space station and such "if you want to really know about a man, pick a fight with him"

the part of the qunari that makes me think "muslim" is sten's comments about only men being warriors, that women could only be poets priests and the like. it is possible that the qunari is a mixture of both

[KnightofPhoenix]

Seraal wrote...
the part of the qunari that makes me think "muslim" is sten's comments about only men being warriors, that women could only be poets priests and the like. it is possible that the qunari is a mixture of both

Actually, in the early days of  Islam, women participated in battle sometimes. One was actually so fierce, she was mistaken for Khaled (who was the greatest warrior). She died at the battle of Yarmouk I think.

But the idea that only males could be warriors / knights was almost a universal law. Rare are the cultures that actually accepted the idea of women being warriors.

[Seraal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Seraal wrote...
the part of the qunari that makes me think "muslim" is sten's comments about only men being warriors, that women could only be poets priests and the like. it is possible that the qunari is a mixture of both

Actually, in the early days of  Islam, women participated in battle sometimes. One was actually so fierce, she was mistaken for Khaled (who was the greatest warrior). She died at the battle of Yarmouk I think.

But the idea that only males could be warriors / knights was almost a universal law. Rare are the cultures that actually accepted the idea of women being warriors.

i meant that more in the context of "viking versus muslim" since the qunari were compared to muslims in earlier posts. so far as i am aware viking women while not commonly "warriors" in raids, they were encouraged and expected to be able to fight in defense of their villages. 

[Gill Kaiser]

I don't think that the Qunari have a direct counterpart, but I'd say they're like a cross between Buddhists and Feudal Japanese.

[RyuAzai]

I remember a dev saying that the Qunari(I think it was them) were more like extremist buddhist in their religion.



And about the grey wardens HQ, Weiss, it was said to be more of a German influence, heavily in the Visagoth area.

[Duck and Cover]

so what are the Dalish then?

[JohnF1986]

Rutugag wrote...

interesting, where is the weissupt (I have no idea how to stell it) grey warden fortress locked, the name sounds very german, is it in the anderfels?

Yes, Anderfels has Weisshaupt Fortress. That's "white pate fortress", in case you are interested.

Anderfels is clearly the HRE, albeit lacking the reason for this very name. Rather it is an extremised version of medieval Germany, which has to fight a much, much harder battle than its real-life historical counterpart. Also clearly more Visigothic.

Antiva, although all of its appearing citizens having a Spanish accent, is more like medieval Venice. A small nation with much more power in trade than the actual government.

Rivain appears a little like ancient Greece to me.

[Thomas9321]

Tevinter as it as at the time of DA:O very, very similar to the Byzantine Empire. Most noticably in there slow declince. Ferelden was inspired by the Kingdom of England I believe.

[Al-Ashaman]

It's very early England, though (culture-wise). Or possibly a "England if the saxons had thrown the foreigners back out". With the names of people, I'd even be incilined to say it might inspired by the celtic areas of Britain.

[Vilegrim]

the most byzantine society strikes me as the dwarves, a once great empire reduced to a small revenant with convulted political intrigues amongst the nobles....

[David Gaider]

Yes, you can find analogies from history for most of Thedas -- that's intentional, as the world was built with these sorts of commonalities in mind. "What if Europe had magic?" None of the comparisons are perfect, of course. The fact that real countries or cultural groups were used as inspirations does not mean we were trying to copy them outright.



But if you want to know where the inspirations came from for some of these things, sure.



The Qunari have a role in Thedas very similar to that of the Mongol horde. As you all have already pointed out, of course, the details of their culture are pretty radically different. Something more akin to Vikings or Muslims (and by that I mean that Muslims in the medieval period were much more philosophically and technologically advanced than contemporary Europeans, not to any particular tenet of their beliefs). Someone at work once said they were like Vulcans mixed with the Borg, and that comparison works, too.



As for the elves, there are some comparisons to be found in the minorities present in medieval Europe. A friend of mine pointed me to a discussion online where someone was utterly convinced that the elves in Thedas were copied from the Witcher, which I found amusing since right there in history we have the Jewish and the Rom. There were "Jewish Quarters" in many major cities, places where the Jewish were confined to -- similar to the Alienages in Thedas. The Dalish started off as the wandering Rom (or gypsies, if you prefer) but evolved into something more akin to North American Natives (and, really, the Native situation is also a good analogy for elves as a whole).



The dwarves are probably the only culture that doesn't have a good comparison to medieval Europe (for obvious reasons, primarily history lacking a good underground empire). The other countries mentioned in the thread are mostly correct -- with perhaps the exception of Rivain, which has a place more similar to Spain (a nation half-occupied by the a foreign culture and at least partially absorbed into it), though culturally it's not alike at all.

[Rutugag]

very very interesting, minor question though, since rivain is modeled loosely after medievel spain, why do all of the antivans we meet in game have spanish accents?

[Seraal]

Rutugag wrote...

very very interesting, minor question though, since rivain is modeled loosely after medievel spain, why do all of the antivans we meet in game have spanish accents?

because it sounds cool >.>

[Xaila]

I felt like the elves had some similarities to Jews, especially the city elves. The "alienages" being similar to "Jewish quarters", religious persecution/discrimination, etc. Something about their language too.



I wonder what that would make the Dalish though. I remember one of the Dalish NPCs hoping to one day have a proper homeland. Zionists? I think the Rom/Gypsy analogy fits their lifestyle a bit more though. Or maybe even something like Irish Travellers.